*BONUS EPISODE* INTERVIEW: John Harris Dunning

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Hey, this is John-Harris Dunning, the writer of Summer Shadows, Wiper and Ripperland, and you are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host, Chris Hacker and Aaron Norris.

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Joining me today is the award-winning writer behind Wiper, Salem Brownstone, Tamalt, and Summer Shadows.

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You've also seen his work appear in The Guardian, Esquire, and GQ.

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He is here today to talk about his upcoming queer horror crime, Done It, over at Dark Horse Comics Ripperland with co-writer Steve Orlando and artist Alessandro Oliveira.

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It is my pleasure to welcome John Harris Dunning onto the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Hey guys.

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I'm so pleased to be in the bar.

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I love this show.

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So make mine a double double on, on the rocks, ready to go.

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Here it comes.

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Love it.

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John, is such a pleasure to finally get you here on the oblivion bar podcast.

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We were sort of chatting about this before the recording, but I think it's worth bringing up to the listener here that, know, we first met at New York comic con 2023.

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I was just sort of chatting with Christian Ward right in front of his booth and I know.

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I feel like I've heard this conversation or this note from you and other conversations, but you sort of walked up and we started chatting immediately.

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Yeah.

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Well, I guess my first question would be, how do know Christian and what were you doing there at New York Comic-Con that year?

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Well, yeah, Christian and are old friends.

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I remember him getting his first payment check from Marvel and him being so excited he wasn't sure that he's going to cash him off because it said Marvel on it.

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So that was a very long time ago.

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So yeah, we're old buddies and he's always been like he is I think with a lot of people who are amateur and maybe a little bit more professional but he is such an unbelievable supporter of comic talent and the most wonderfully generous man.

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yeah, I mean he's been right with me but he's been that with a number of people and continues to be.

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So he's really one of the good guys in comics, that's for sure.

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And obviously just ridiculously talented as both a writer and as an artist.

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Yeah, I don't want to make this into like the let's butter up Christian Ward our cause I think he knows that we both love him and that, you know, he has lots of fans.

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He's been on.

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mean, he's been on the show more than anybody and I've only been friends with them for two years.

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So we've been doing the oblivion bar for almost five, if that tells you anything.

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So I will echo all of what you said.

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And, and when we met that day, I actually, was lucky enough to get a copy of your OGN through dark horse wiper here.

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You signed it for me, which was super nice.

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And And I feel like, you know, almost immediately I was aware that like just chatting with you in this brief.

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What was it like?

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Maybe 10 minutes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Somewhere in there.

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I was like, this guy, he's got it in some way.

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You like you get that feeling when you when you meet someone, you're like, they just understand the medium and you know, they're going to do something really big in there.

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And I don't want to make this again, the butter up John hour either, but I'm probably going to do it a couple of times.

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Yeah.

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But but and we'll get into all that here in just a moment.

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I want to briefly just immediately segue as soon as we start this conversation.

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You know, we were supposed to meet last night.

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Here's a little behind the scenes, everybody.

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We were supposed to meet last night and have a conversation, but I got a press screener to go see a 24 new film, Queer.

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And that was over there at the Alamo draft house here in Indianapolis.

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And when I mentioned it to you and asked you if we could possibly reschedule for the next day, you mentioned that you loved the book, Queer.

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I'm assuming you're planning to go see the film, correct?

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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I mean, I've actually also got a preview screen of it now, but I'm actually not seeing it until I can see it on the big screen.

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And it hasn't come out here in London.

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It comes out just after Christmas.

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So I'm saving myself.

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I'm really excited here.

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Queer is actually one of my favorite books of all time.

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And Burroughs is probably my favorite writer.

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And it's kind of my sort of literary daddy, you know, when I started writing as a young man.

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He was the person I looked up to most really and I still really admire him enormously.

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And I think one of the reasons I admire him so much is he was able to walk this line between being extremely experimental, extremely avant-garde, but then he wrote books like Queer.

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And Queer is just such a deceptively simple book.

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It's beautifully written.

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is absolutely devastating.

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Really quite a small, short book, but just incredible.

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So he can do...

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what's supposedly very simple and then he can do extremely kind of way out and avant-garde.

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And actually, if you look in the beginning of Wiper, the opening quote is Burroughs, the quote, I'm getting so far out that one day I won't come back at all.

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wow.

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Yeah, look at that.

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Alan Ginsberg.

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Yeah, I love that man.

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He's just incredible.

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Well, it's interesting to hear you say that about the book and how it maybe is like ultra simple because watching the film, I found it really challenging.

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And I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this eventually.

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I'd love to get in touch once you eventually see the film.

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But and I'm definitely saying this incorrectly.

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So correct me if I'm wrong here.

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Director Luca Garda Giugino.

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I'm definitely saying that wrong.

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What did you go something?

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I'm terrible.

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But yes, know, watching it, I'm watching this film.

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go and see with my partner, Olivia, and we're watching it.

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We're like, you know, I know something good is happening here.

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You know, when you watch a film and you just can't quite wrap your head around it, you can't put your You know, can't give it a bear hug and sort of wrap your head around the story.

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And I'd read nothing going into the film.

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So watching this, I found it again, I found it really challenging.

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I'm curious again to hear your thoughts on it, because by the end of it, I looked over at Olivia and I was like, I don't I sort of understand what's going on here.

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But I don't I need to look into more of this.

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the thing is, the thing is, this is a number of people have said this to me and therefore it must be quite a liberal adaptation because the book is extremely simple.

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mean, the book is basically, there's this older guy who's in a terrible state, who's kind of fixated on this younger handsome man who doesn't really, he's not really sexually attracted to him.

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And it's how he tries to be with this guy and be vulnerable with this guy.

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And this guy's just not available.

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And of course, what you realize in real life is because, know, Burroughs' work is all very autobiographical.

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He's basically just blown his own wife's head off.

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and he's in front of his children and he's in a terrible state of shock and so there's a sort of underlying sense of sort dread and horror which is never mentioned in the book.

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I don't know, I think it's alluded to somewhere in the film, I don't know, maybe right in the end or something, I heard say.

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So I don't know quite what they've done in the film but the book is actually just as deceptively, as I say, simple encounter between these two men.

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guess what was so impressive to me as a young man is, you know, I growing up in South Africa.

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Being gay was obviously illegal, it was still illegal in England until quite recently to actually even discuss homosexuality positively in school or talk to children about it at all.

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know, people were actually, when I first got to London in the 90s, people were actually being arrested for owning William Burroughs books in private.

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you know, his totally hardcore and kind of incredibly intelligently unapologetic way of being, and it's not...

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pleasant always the way he writes and what he writes about, but he's so unapologetic and this incredibly brilliant brain just blew my mind.

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hadn't, I hadn't seen a gay man who was so unapologetic and so incredibly clever.

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mean, two little pop culture references, and then we'll, we need to probably talk about comics because I have to talk about all day.

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Basically, you know, one is, you know that the original video for Heart Shaped Box by Kodaka Bane, what that was supposed to be.

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I didn't know.

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don't, I don't know, but that actually that song, that song shows up in the movie.

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I'm pretty sure.

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Yeah, so he just, he wrote the video and he drew it and he wanted Burrows fucking him.

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And Burrows was in his eighties.

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He just wanted the whole video Burrows fucking him.

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That was what Kurt wanted.

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I was just like, and you know, can imagine the record company was like, we make another video for that.

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And also Burrows was like, who the hell's Kurt Cobain?

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Because Kurt sent this idea to him and he's like, who's Kurt Cobain?

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So that was kind of hilarious.

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Yeah.

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So, you know, he, he, he, he holds us quite sort of extraordinary space in, in, in popular culture, I think.

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And then he ended up like modeling for gap, you know, in the night he just, he's just a strange beast, who, who just seemed to be sort of quite not, quite like anybody else really.

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Well, and I actually, I misspoke there.

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It was actually come as you are.

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That was a song that shows up in the film.

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Sorry, spoilers for everybody, but there is an Nirvana song in the movie.

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Right.

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That's interesting.

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Wow.

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He loved him, he absolutely adored Burroughs and they actually did a collaboration, it's called The Priest they called him.

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so Burroughs does the spoken word piece and then Kurt noodles in the background with the guitar.

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So they did something when they were alive and then Kurt sent him a painting of aliens, like grey aliens, and Burroughs sent him a portrait back as well.

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So they were exchanging paintings and stuff, was this whole relationship going on.

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What an interesting friendship there that bloomed out of seemingly nowhere out of just a pure admiration for one artist to another, I guess.

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And I also think it was a really important time when homosexuality was seen as a sort of outsider cowboyish thing to do.

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And obviously, was arrested as a young man for spray painting God is Gay on the Wall, which he puts into All Apologies.

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And so he really looked up to Burroughs as this person who just didn't give a shit about society and just made his own path home.

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The second little thing that I forgot about, but I was trying to remember is that Kerouac writes this book called Desolation Angels.

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And in it, he talks about Burroughs, he calls old Bull Lee.

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And he's this old guy, he's just sitting, again, it's post him having blown his wife's head off.

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And he's sitting absolutely out of his mind on heroin.

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And all he's doing is he's got this set of encyclopedias and he's reading it from the beginning to the end and he's starting to get it beginning to the end.

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He's just completely on his own in this room.

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And he's just reading these books over and over and over again.

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And Kerouac is like, this is such a tragedy because this is the most brilliant man of our generation and nobody's ever going to know who he is.

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And of course Kerouac was dead and then Burroughs became Burroughs.

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And actually of all of those beatniks became the most pervasive and the most long, you know, he wrote more books and he became, you know, maybe the most long lived in terms of popularity.

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So it's quite interesting, but he started late.

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I think he only published, I think.

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queer and junkie were done like in his late 40s or 50s even.

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And he only became famous really in his 70s and 80s.

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So he was a late bloomer.

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Yeah.

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mean, to kind of move into comics as well, I would talk about Stanley and Jack Kirby didn't create the Fantastic Four until they were in their late 40s.

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that's, mean, for any creative person out there that's listening, if you for some reason feel like your time has passed and you can't get there anymore because you're in your early 30s.

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And I'm looking at the mirrors.

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I'm saying this as well.

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know, you don't, don't worry about it.

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You can create great things at any point in your life.

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It's important.

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I completely agree with you.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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In fact, you know, that, that life experience is really, really important.

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So definitely.

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Well, and sort of to transition here, I want to ask you, I mentioned it in the intro, but you know, you've wrote pieces for the Guardian, Esquire and GQ.

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Can you, can you tell me a little bit more about that time there as a journalist?

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Yeah.

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And I've written for Rolling Stone as well here in the UK and I've written, for the Financial Times as well.

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I mean, I've mostly written about film.

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I've been involved with film.

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I was involved doing casting on Sexy Beast by Jonathan Glazer.

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And I still know him.

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Obviously, he's done incredible films like Under the Skin and One in Oscar.

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So he's a genius.

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yeah, so I've worked in film a little bit as well.

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And then I've interviewed people like John Walters you know all Takeshi Kitano and various people as well and you know and stuff so so I was always around film and writing mostly around film actually for those publications because you know because I like film and I studied film in Africa.

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Yes I actually just bought the Zone of Interest on 4k from a a24 like two days ago.

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Zone of Interest is so amazing but then so I enjoyed it so much as well I enjoyed is the right word but it's just it's it's such a masterpiece and so well deserved that win and But then I went back and just recently we watched them under the skin.

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It's just, it's so unique and incredibly useful.

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Speaking of, you know, a 24 and buying things from them last year for my birthday, if you're in a triple a 24 member of theirs, which is like their exclusive club or whatever, you get a free birthday gift every year.

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And I didn't realize that I had this, but one of the gifts that you could get was the under the skin screen book.

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It basically just has the screen playing a lot of bonus features and stuff.

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And I didn't realize that I had already bought it.

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the year prior.

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So now I have two copies of the under the skin screen book.

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I'm going to buy my third next year.

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man.

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Well, that's, that's interesting.

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I had no idea.

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Honestly, when we met for the first time, I thought you were just sort of breaking your way into in the world of comics.

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so the other thing is, you know, it's interesting thinking about comics and you know, bringing it back to being in New York.

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think that was my first New York.

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think that was the first time I went to New York Comic Con.

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And Chris Tune had been saying for ages, you've got to get over to the US and do that because I'd only visited the US once before about 300 years ago, literally.

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was the frontier towns there.

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Yeah.

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You came over with a Mayflower.

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Literally, yeah.

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There was tea, there was a whole incident.

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a whole big thing.

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We don't need to get into it.

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But I just went to Los Angeles.

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then basically, I've done comics here, know, I've done some self-published comics and then I did Salem Brownstone, which was a company called Walker Books here, which is kind of a kids book publisher and it was picked up by Candlewick in the US.

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And then I did this book, Tumult, the Self-Made Hero, here, and was translated into French by Presque Lune, and then it was nominated for an award at Angoulême.

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And so it felt like my center was more European.

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But the reality is, you know, the French have got such an incredibly strong...

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market that if you're not writing in French, it's very hard to compete with French writers.

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so because unfortunately, like I'm dumb and only speak English, have to basically, same exactly.

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I had to sort of refocus over to the US.

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And the reality is, you know, when I think about it, what I grew up reading was mostly American comic books really as a kid until my teens, when I read 2000 AD, which was, very, very very important to me because it was the golden age of Grant Morrison and Alan Moore and everybody writing for 2018 was actually incredible.

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that was mind blowing.

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it was important to come over to the US and connect with the industry and it's kind of moved quite quickly since I've been over and it feels it's definitely been the right thing to do.

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Yeah, it's funny you say that about sort of the French comic market too.

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I want to quickly go back to that because Firstly, I should say, I don't know if we ever talked about this when we met in New York, but I have a mobius super surfer tattoo right here.

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So, you know, I would have remembered that.

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I'm obviously a huge fan, but also I just backed the the two heavy metal kickstarters they just released here recently.

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I think it was the heavy metal reprintings of the first issue.

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And I want to say it was like heavy.

00:15:56.410 --> 00:15:56.691
shoot.

00:15:56.691 --> 00:15:57.350
Now I'm spacing.

00:15:57.350 --> 00:15:58.530
It's like heavy.

00:15:59.371 --> 00:16:00.726
I'll have to look it up here in just a bit.

00:16:00.726 --> 00:16:02.712
But anyway, I'm excited for it it's a lot.

00:16:02.712 --> 00:16:04.427
It's basically whatever.

00:16:04.427 --> 00:16:08.120
Heavy Metal was before Heavy Metal and then they eventually created that imprint.

00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:17.644
So I decided to sort of deep dive into that because while I have a great appreciation for it, I'm not as knowledgeable or as like, I haven't seen as much as I would like to, I would say.

00:16:17.644 --> 00:16:19.403
Yeah, it's really amazing.

00:16:19.403 --> 00:16:24.626
I've got to know quite a lot of that material through going to Angoulême where I go every year to the comic book convention there.

00:16:24.626 --> 00:16:27.028
And yeah, it's awesome.

00:16:27.028 --> 00:16:32.830
And I've hung out with Hodorowski quite a lot who obviously did Inkull.

00:16:32.950 --> 00:16:37.801
And he's read my tarot cards and he signed a few copies of Incal for me as well.

00:16:37.801 --> 00:16:39.172
And he's a genius.

00:16:39.172 --> 00:16:46.953
Like those two working together is, because obviously the two of them were supposed to work on the original version of Dune and Salvador Dali was supposed to play the emperor.

00:16:46.953 --> 00:16:51.575
And then when that collapsed in a heap, obviously that created Alien and Star Wars and everything.

00:16:51.575 --> 00:16:54.385
And then they went off to do this incredible masterpiece of a comic.

00:16:54.385 --> 00:16:58.116
So it was something really beautiful born out of catastrophe.

00:16:58.116 --> 00:17:00.470
don't know if you can see it right, like right here.

00:17:00.470 --> 00:17:02.511
I have the new printing of in-call right there.

00:17:02.511 --> 00:17:08.635
So yeah, I, and that right there can convince you to check out that sort of sub genre of comics.

00:17:08.635 --> 00:17:14.339
was a heavy her lot, by the way, a seminal science fiction anthology lives Kickstarter that just came out recently.

00:17:14.339 --> 00:17:15.171
Very excited for that.

00:17:15.171 --> 00:17:15.601
Right.

00:17:15.601 --> 00:17:16.142
Right.

00:17:16.142 --> 00:17:27.470
Well, and also I want to sort of build off this to you mentioned a minute ago, how you, you know, sort of came over, start creating comics here in America and you know, you've done work such as again, wiper.

00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:30.299
And of course, you're working on summer shadows right now through Dark Horse.

00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:43.289
But, you know, speaking of Dark Horse and I want to deep dive into that here in just a moment, but let's get into Ripperland, which is sort of the central pillar reason why you're here outside of just wanting to finally get to chat longer than 10 minutes in front of Christian Ward's booth at New York Comic Con.

00:17:43.289 --> 00:17:48.549
But, you know, this first issue of Ripperland comes out on January 22nd, 2025.

00:17:48.549 --> 00:17:54.900
So when this conversation comes out, you've got about a month, everyone, to go check that out and and make sure you get that on your pool.

00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:56.890
And here's a brief synopsis of the story.

00:17:56.890 --> 00:18:00.769
So The year is 2188 and Jack the Ripper has returned to London.

00:18:00.769 --> 00:18:09.455
For the last century, a shattered post-Brexit England has operated as a massive Victorian theme park in exchange for American military and financial protection.

00:18:09.455 --> 00:18:15.901
But when America's mogul grandson is killed in the heart of London, the delicate status quo is threatened.

00:18:15.901 --> 00:18:25.028
you know, speaking of serendipitous New York Comic-Con meetings, legend has it that you and co-writer Steve Orlando first met at New York Comic-Con to discuss working together.

00:18:25.028 --> 00:18:30.642
So my question for you is, What was it about this story specifically that got you two both excited?

00:18:30.642 --> 00:18:37.981
Well, was, you know, we generated it together and it was a bit of a game of sort of catch.

00:18:38.082 --> 00:18:39.801
Steve is a really dynamic writer.

00:18:39.801 --> 00:18:42.201
mean, he's somebody that I've admired for a long time.

00:18:42.201 --> 00:18:53.682
And he obviously is a bit of an enfant terrible in terms of he started off so young and was so successful, and has worked for the big two, which is something I have yet to do.

00:18:54.029 --> 00:18:56.990
And it was just such an interesting character and I just really loved his writing.

00:18:56.990 --> 00:19:05.390
So I had sort of reached out to him to meet with him and he made the time because he's a very generous guy as well, very, very clever guy too.

00:19:05.390 --> 00:19:10.109
And we sat down and he was just, you know, we got on very well immediately.

00:19:10.109 --> 00:19:16.029
And he was just like, through the walk into my court, was just like, right, I'd love to collaborate with you.

00:19:16.029 --> 00:19:20.329
I'd love it to be something UK based because he's, you know, he's a total kind of anglophile.

00:19:20.329 --> 00:19:23.109
And he was like, I'd love to be something UK based.

00:19:23.117 --> 00:19:25.238
you know, just tell me, tell me what you think.

00:19:25.238 --> 00:19:27.077
I come back with an idea.

00:19:27.137 --> 00:19:38.877
And I was like, God, like, you know, you know, it was just sort of around Brexit and everything was like the last thing I'm going to do is anything around England, like a parking leave, you know, try being an American right now.

00:19:38.877 --> 00:19:39.958
exactly.

00:19:39.958 --> 00:19:41.107
It's the same thing.

00:19:41.107 --> 00:19:44.238
I mean, it's the same level of like disappointing catastrophe.

00:19:44.238 --> 00:19:51.102
And so, you know, it was just like, and then it was, Then I started thinking, but maybe I can be bit playful about that.

00:19:51.102 --> 00:19:59.178
we were both, Steve and I have both got like a healthy level of sort of criticism of the countries that we live in as much as we love them as well.

00:19:59.178 --> 00:20:00.817
I mean, that's why we are critical.

00:20:00.817 --> 00:20:05.690
So we sort of, we got into like, what do you hate about your country?

00:20:05.690 --> 00:20:07.000
What do you love about your country?

00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.602
And then it was just like, well, what about if we played with that?

00:20:09.602 --> 00:20:14.815
And that became the game and that came through on the page.

00:20:14.815 --> 00:20:16.993
And I think that's really what we're doing is.

00:20:16.993 --> 00:20:18.394
were being very satirical.

00:20:18.394 --> 00:20:30.998
I mean, this idea that England has become, you know, a Victorian theme park with no technology, electricity for, for American protection, financial and military is probably going to happen next month as it turns out.

00:20:30.998 --> 00:20:33.337
But it's actually on the book.

00:20:33.337 --> 00:20:37.538
It's a scheduled.

00:20:37.579 --> 00:20:43.820
So, so, so, so, so, know, so, that was, so that was a bit playful and a bit silly, but also, you know, saying something more serious.

00:20:43.820 --> 00:20:48.028
And it was also just talking a lot about, you know, It is interesting.

00:20:48.028 --> 00:20:53.190
mean, there's no real British comics industry left here anymore.

00:20:53.190 --> 00:20:55.411
You know, there's a sort of brain drain that happened to the US.

00:20:55.411 --> 00:21:01.511
And with all due respect, I have to come with my begging bowl to the US for work, like any English writers or artists.

00:21:01.511 --> 00:21:14.016
So there's a sort of slightly wry conversation about colonialism and the American colonization of the UK, which has happened in film, in TV, in comics, in almost every sphere.

00:21:14.198 --> 00:21:16.480
So, you know, that's one way of looking at it.

00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:20.262
There's also another way of looking at this beautiful cross-pollination that happens.

00:21:20.262 --> 00:21:28.950
You know, both countries really influence each other, but you know, if one's being a little bit more cynical or satirical, one could look at it like that and it's worth highlighting it.

00:21:28.950 --> 00:21:30.991
So that was sort of how it started.

00:21:30.991 --> 00:21:35.996
And then, you you've read the first issue and you you've got these two characters.

00:21:36.236 --> 00:21:51.632
You've got this American character who's a member of, who's an FBI agent, Jesse Holden, who's sent over to the UK to work in concert with this Victorian in inverted commas detective Edwin Fogg, who basically just thinks he's a cosplayer.

00:21:51.632 --> 00:21:54.252
mean, he doesn't have any technology, have no forensic.

00:21:54.252 --> 00:21:58.115
He just thinks he's going to be worse than useless and kind of just wants him to stay out of his way.

00:21:58.115 --> 00:22:05.228
But of course, then they start to become friendly and they start to admire how each other work and they start to realize the pressures they're under.

00:22:05.228 --> 00:22:16.444
And so, you know, it's also a little bit of, you know, as cynical as Steve and I were being, I think we're both actually very optimistic people and we're both quite loving people.

00:22:16.444 --> 00:22:21.056
And we want to believe that actually, can't we all just love each other?

00:22:21.056 --> 00:22:29.640
Literally in this case, actually as it turns out, no plot spoilers, but we do see a kind of positive outcome as well.

00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:38.023
And we love this kind of playing up the kind of Britishness and Americanness and the sort of cliches and our foibles and failings.

00:22:38.023 --> 00:22:39.624
It was really cool to do it.

00:22:40.230 --> 00:22:40.790
Yeah.

00:22:40.790 --> 00:22:41.070
Wow.

00:22:41.070 --> 00:22:44.834
I feel like I have so many things I want to touch on with your response there.

00:22:44.834 --> 00:22:56.534
Firstly, as like a dirty Yankee, can tell you like as someone who is so unabashedly and sort of annoyingly patriotic, you know, because my co-host Aaron and I both served in the military.

00:22:56.534 --> 00:22:59.869
That's where we met initially back in 2010.

00:23:00.047 --> 00:23:08.124
We see parts of the country that are sort of disheartening things that happen again, go back to last month here in the U.S.

00:23:08.124 --> 00:23:16.756
and And I can tell you very, very candidly that both Aaron and are not extremely happy about what happened there with the election and sort of where we're headed as a country in general.

00:23:16.756 --> 00:23:23.846
But at the same time, I can't help but I feel a little defensive towards, you know, wanting to, you know, the country and the U.S.

00:23:23.846 --> 00:23:28.046
And like you said, like being cynical doesn't mean that you hate your country.

00:23:28.046 --> 00:23:31.006
It means that you are aware of its potential.

00:23:31.145 --> 00:23:32.496
That's exactly it, Chris.

00:23:32.496 --> 00:23:35.625
I mean, you know, I mean, don't even stop me.

00:23:35.625 --> 00:23:41.473
It's like, you know, I grew up in Africa, but, know, The thing that saw me through was basically American product.

00:23:41.473 --> 00:23:52.700
I was obsessed with comics as a kid, obsessed with American TV, obsessed with films, and there was a real optimism and hope and energy in them that I still really believe in.

00:23:52.700 --> 00:23:54.500
So it's about protecting that.

00:23:54.500 --> 00:23:58.502
It's not about wanting to burn the ship and see it go down.

00:23:58.502 --> 00:24:01.064
It's more about how important it is to protect that.

00:24:01.064 --> 00:24:05.306
I feel the same about the UK, with Brexit and just what a disaster that was.

00:24:05.453 --> 00:24:13.406
you know, unfortunately, you don't corner the market in, know, iffy political situations, we've done exactly the same.

00:24:13.406 --> 00:24:16.778
In fact, it's all across Europe, they're struggling with similar issues.

00:24:16.778 --> 00:24:22.020
And it's about defending that and kindness and how do we hold space for kindness?

00:24:22.020 --> 00:24:24.041
How do we hold space for understanding?

00:24:24.041 --> 00:24:28.743
And I didn't expect everybody to agree with me, as I'm sure you don't expect everyone to agree with you.

00:24:28.743 --> 00:24:33.826
It's just about trying to keep a space open where both sides can speak, people can...

00:24:33.902 --> 00:24:37.172
you know, say that piece and everyone can also keep their mind open.

00:24:37.172 --> 00:24:39.781
I mean, I'm aware that I have to work quite hard at that as well.

00:24:39.781 --> 00:24:41.821
Sometimes, you know, it's interesting about that.

00:24:41.821 --> 00:24:48.981
And I wanted to briefly touch on sort of the colonialization of American sort of entertainment over to, you know, the UK.

00:24:48.981 --> 00:24:52.021
I want to get to that, but I want to briefly just touch on what you just said there.

00:24:52.021 --> 00:24:55.382
Whereas like having both sides to be able to have like an open dialogue with each other.

00:24:55.382 --> 00:24:59.142
And that's really difficult for me as someone who is like.

00:24:59.142 --> 00:25:00.893
I feel like I've always been liberal in some way.

00:25:00.893 --> 00:25:04.063
We don't have to make this a big political conversation, but I think there's a good base here.

00:25:04.063 --> 00:25:15.487
You know, I feel like I've always been liberal in some sense, you know, and I'm, am like your prototypical, if like, and speaking in terms of the U S politics of it all, like I'm a veteran, I'm a white CIS male in the Midwest.

00:25:15.487 --> 00:25:24.769
Like I am the prototypical poster child for your, like your new Republican, like they're doing all these things for me and I don't want any of it.

00:25:24.769 --> 00:25:33.416
And I think that the open dialogue part of our politics in 2024 here in America is that, and you can tell me if I'm truly wrong here.

00:25:33.416 --> 00:25:40.171
And I'd love to hear the thoughts of the listener as well at some point, but I don't even care to hear the other side's argument anymore.

00:25:40.171 --> 00:25:50.826
And maybe that's like a weaponization of the people that I listen to, but everything that that other side stands for to a certain degree, I wholeheartedly disagree with in like a very intense level.

00:25:50.826 --> 00:25:55.409
What are your thoughts there in terms of like equating that to like, let's say UK politics?

00:25:55.409 --> 00:26:03.114
Look, the thing is, It never has reached the level of vitriol or aggression that it did in the US.

00:26:03.114 --> 00:26:07.455
you know, I mean, not wanting to put too fine a point on it, but I nobody's armed.

00:26:07.615 --> 00:26:09.928
it just isn't the same level of violence.

00:26:09.928 --> 00:26:12.378
there's nothing like the same death rate.

00:26:12.378 --> 00:26:23.675
You know, we don't have a shortening, you know, lifespan, which is I think the US is the only first world country that actually has a shorter lifespan and every generation.

00:26:23.675 --> 00:26:27.263
there's serious, serious structural problems going on.

00:26:27.263 --> 00:26:30.486
And I think that has reached kind of fever pitch.

00:26:30.746 --> 00:26:44.194
I still think it is important to leave some bridge of conversation because otherwise, mean, if you look at how many people voted for and against whoever, you know, we're not even talking sides, it's big swathes of the population.

00:26:44.194 --> 00:26:54.094
It's not like this is a like a tiny narrow margin of somebody voting this and every it's like actually this big blocks against each other and there has to be someone bringing people together.

00:26:54.094 --> 00:26:59.993
And actually we know that there is, which is you need somebody moderate in the middle and those people seem to have disappeared.

00:26:59.993 --> 00:27:03.953
And the only way those moderates are going to come back is some kind of communication.

00:27:03.953 --> 00:27:07.253
But of course that's me on a kind of intellectual level.

00:27:07.253 --> 00:27:11.653
Like I'm also a human being and I would be super emotional in your situation.

00:27:11.653 --> 00:27:16.614
Same as I really was super emotional in the UK, you know, post Brexit.

00:27:16.614 --> 00:27:18.894
I was literally spitting mad.

00:27:18.894 --> 00:27:22.412
I mean, couldn't even speak to people who'd voted for us.

00:27:22.412 --> 00:27:26.494
you know, now it's sort of settled down and there's much more moderate situation.

00:27:26.494 --> 00:27:32.329
And now I feel more able to have conversations with people who are so incredibly stupid.

00:27:32.730 --> 00:27:36.252
But you know, seriously, I feel like I'm more open to that.

00:27:36.252 --> 00:27:38.494
So I hope you guys get to that situation.

00:27:38.494 --> 00:27:41.537
I'm sure you will, you know, but it's a tough moment.

00:27:42.155 --> 00:27:49.913
I saw a little twinkle of like satire when you said, I'm sure you will at some point, because if we are nothing here in America, we are extreme in one way or another.

00:27:49.913 --> 00:27:50.653
But I agree.

00:27:50.653 --> 00:27:51.534
I hope so as well.

00:27:51.534 --> 00:27:57.278
hope we eventually, once some time passes and we sort of, you know, I hope this doesn't happen.

00:27:57.278 --> 00:28:04.184
Because it's too, know, those like the culture wars and just all the conversation.

00:28:04.184 --> 00:28:20.719
If you look at the radicalization of certain people who again sort shall remain nameless, but you know, they may or may not be involved with the technology, you know, you know, basically maybe started off as such a utopian person has become so, the opposite of what I understand is utopian.

00:28:20.719 --> 00:28:22.392
It's just, it's just bizarre.

00:28:22.392 --> 00:28:34.849
And that's all because of this kind of radical rivalry and pushing so that, you know, people are becoming more and more embedded in their opinions and going further and further away from what they would have actually once thought.

00:28:34.849 --> 00:28:37.131
And that's a shame, it's sort dehumanizing.

00:28:37.131 --> 00:28:40.471
So that's my kind of wish, but mean, God knows how you do that.

00:28:40.471 --> 00:28:55.896
I mean, personally, I think the way you do that is, you know, the way I do it as a creator is you try and create some sort of space that people can be in and have those conversations in a safe, maybe quite attractive space that maybe also is a bit of fun.

00:28:55.896 --> 00:29:01.145
You know, that's quite a good stealth, the stealth we're doing it because basically I grew up...

00:29:01.145 --> 00:29:10.327
as I say in South Africa during the apartheid and you know it was a state of emergency so there was no media that was allowed through no newspapers, magazines, anything.

00:29:10.429 --> 00:29:29.894
The only thing that came through were comics because everyone was just like this is so childish there's obviously nothing in there so there was a lot of really serious anti-apartheid material coming through from the US in comics and from England as well and Europe so we were getting those messages and I think comics are still a very powerful medium to...

00:29:30.114 --> 00:29:32.154
to have those conversations in.

00:29:32.154 --> 00:29:41.740
I love that thought too, what you just said there about how like comics actors are like sort of a disguised through line of rationale and sort of bigger thinking, you know, in that way.

00:29:41.740 --> 00:29:42.590
They've always been that.

00:29:42.590 --> 00:29:50.326
I mean, the X-Men are literally a pastiche for the civil rights movement and the disenfranchised, the LGBTQ community from the very beginning.

00:29:50.326 --> 00:29:55.949
Like Stan has come out multiple times and said that whether that's like rewriting history or not, I think it's pretty evident on page.

00:29:55.949 --> 00:29:56.568
Totally.

00:29:56.568 --> 00:29:58.354
I completely agree with you.

00:29:58.445 --> 00:30:05.615
You know, people, when you read about those guys and women who were involved in all of that, you know, they were pushing the envelope.

00:30:05.615 --> 00:30:07.076
They were definitely involved in all that stuff.

00:30:07.076 --> 00:30:08.526
So of course it came through in their work.

00:30:08.526 --> 00:30:12.165
And I'd to sort of equate that to what you guys are doing here with Ripperland.

00:30:12.165 --> 00:30:22.145
you guys have three separate, and we'll say this sort of like broadly here, you have three separate voices from three different countries coming in and telling the story with, of course, you and Steve, but also Alessandro.

00:30:22.145 --> 00:30:25.375
So I'm just curious, like, and I want to sort of dive in this a little bit more.

00:30:25.375 --> 00:30:27.271
You sort of spoke on a little bit already, but.

00:30:27.271 --> 00:30:32.564
What are you guys wanting to say with this like long gestating relationship between the US and the UK?

00:30:32.703 --> 00:30:36.145
That it can be made to work in surprising ways.

00:30:36.145 --> 00:30:37.866
guess that that's as basic as it is.

00:30:37.866 --> 00:30:45.190
mean, you know, with all due respect, like I grew up maybe even more English than people in England, because that always happens in the colonies.

00:30:45.190 --> 00:30:56.173
You know, I got back to England and, know, so I could be seen as very English, you know, Steve is a very American dude, you know, he's mouthy, he's lippy.

00:30:56.183 --> 00:30:59.375
He's hilarious, he loves wrestling.

00:31:00.217 --> 00:31:02.558
He's an unapologetic American.

00:31:02.558 --> 00:31:08.157
And so the two of us coming together could have been a real culture clash, but we immediately got on.

00:31:08.157 --> 00:31:11.484
We loved each other, we found each other really hilarious.

00:31:11.585 --> 00:31:13.125
And it was really playful.

00:31:13.125 --> 00:31:14.089
And that says something.

00:31:14.089 --> 00:31:16.898
And I think there's always been that relationship.

00:31:16.898 --> 00:31:23.693
It's like, look at Led Zeppelin, look at the Beatles, look at this exchange that we've had.

00:31:23.693 --> 00:31:35.942
constantly between the cultures in terms of music in particular, but also actors and filmmakers and it's a real turn on that the two cultures are so different and I think they both really feed each other.

00:31:35.942 --> 00:31:40.026
So I think it's like a really good sort of opposite attract date really.

00:31:40.026 --> 00:31:46.790
You know what's interesting is that I feel like and I'm getting like secondhand bad info here, but I'm just curious from your point of view here.

00:31:46.790 --> 00:31:52.164
When I think of British folks here in the US, if they're here, first of all, we're like, hey, Great accent.

00:31:52.164 --> 00:31:54.036
We love the way you talk.

00:31:54.036 --> 00:32:02.961
But also what I've heard through the grapevines, and maybe you can shed some light here, people in the UK do not like American, like if they're visiting the country.

00:32:03.242 --> 00:32:07.125
Have you found that to be true or am I sort of getting wrong, like bad info here?

00:32:07.294 --> 00:32:08.797
I think you're getting bad info.

00:32:08.797 --> 00:32:12.690
I mean, you know, in terms of, I think people bloody love it.

00:32:12.690 --> 00:32:16.012
You know, like people just, people love the open spaces.

00:32:16.012 --> 00:32:16.742
They love the nature.

00:32:16.742 --> 00:32:17.663
They love the people.

00:32:17.663 --> 00:32:20.635
I mean, You you guys are really friendly.

00:32:20.635 --> 00:32:23.945
mean, nobody can say you're not friendly people everywhere.

00:32:23.945 --> 00:32:28.965
You know, you get out in New York and New York is supposed to be like more sort of hardcore fast paced.

00:32:28.965 --> 00:32:33.986
People are so much more friendly than they are in London.

00:32:33.986 --> 00:32:42.385
Like, there's a, no, think people, I think people love the U S you know, I think let's love the U S when they go there, you know, it's, different.

00:32:42.385 --> 00:32:45.826
And, but I think they really enjoy the energy, you know, I know I do.

00:32:45.826 --> 00:33:03.781
And if I look at just my little tiny world of comic creators, like people just love going over and they love going to the comms and they love the people and I've got loads of friends just from having gone a few times and then obviously people traveling over to Thought Bubble in Harrogate which is kind of our big convention as well.

00:33:03.781 --> 00:33:16.150
I first met people like James Tynion there and Leona Kangas and loads of other people and those relationships are really strong now.

00:33:16.653 --> 00:33:19.314
No, I think I think it's a, I think it's too extreme.

00:33:19.314 --> 00:33:23.624
It's just a, can I expose myself a little bit and tell you where this sort of thought came from?

00:33:23.624 --> 00:33:27.334
And it's a stupid, it's a super silly, super stupid source.

00:33:27.334 --> 00:33:36.354
But I saw on the news the other day, they were talking about how a lot of British folks were giving great reviews to like terrible restaurants.

00:33:36.354 --> 00:33:43.594
And then it was, you know, when Americans come over to the country, they're, go straight to like the reviews to figure out where to eat.

00:33:43.594 --> 00:33:46.175
in order to keep the American.

00:33:46.175 --> 00:33:52.567
yanks away from the good food, they would give great reviews to the bad places to make us go to the bad places.

00:33:53.508 --> 00:33:54.938
You've heard about this at all or no?

00:33:54.938 --> 00:33:57.128
No, but that's hilarious.

00:33:57.709 --> 00:33:58.229
I agree.

00:33:58.229 --> 00:34:03.710
It's the most long winded plot against food that I've heard in a very long while, but that's hilarious.

00:34:04.339 --> 00:34:05.550
yeah, I love it.

00:34:05.851 --> 00:34:12.561
Okay, so let's talk a little bit about, what you got, Wiper, you have Summer Shadows, and then now you have Ripperland over at Dark Horse Comics.

00:34:12.561 --> 00:34:14.893
These have all been distributed through Dark Horse Comics.

00:34:14.893 --> 00:34:18.782
We never miss an opportunity here at the Oblivion Bar to give Dark Horse their flowers.

00:34:18.782 --> 00:34:25.393
We absolutely love their marketing team from our perspective and we want to interview creators or get early looks at comics.

00:34:25.393 --> 00:34:27.213
They are on the ball ready to go.

00:34:27.213 --> 00:34:36.532
And I'm just curious again as someone who's sort of relatively new to the comic world, at least American comic world, you've published a lot of your best work and a lot of your recent work through Dark Horse.

00:34:36.532 --> 00:34:40.942
Just curious why that is and what's been your relationship and sort of your experience with Dark Horse.

00:34:40.942 --> 00:34:42.652
Yeah, I mean, it couldn't have been better.

00:34:42.652 --> 00:34:44.722
have to say, and I'm not just saying that.

00:34:44.722 --> 00:34:46.621
I mean, that's why I kind of kept going back.

00:34:46.621 --> 00:34:48.501
And it's been a very natural relationship.

00:34:48.501 --> 00:34:57.661
And again, like not wanting to make the Christian Ward show, but basically he very generously introduced me to Dan Chabon, who's one of the senior editors there.

00:34:57.661 --> 00:34:58.681
He's one of the best.

00:34:58.681 --> 00:34:59.771
He's amazing.

00:34:59.771 --> 00:35:10.141
And he actually commissioned my first book, which didn't happen because then suddenly along came COVID and, you know, everything went on hold, et cetera, et cetera.

00:35:10.141 --> 00:35:19.586
But, That relationship had been opened and he was working with an editor called Brett Israel, who was more junior then but has become senior now.

00:35:19.586 --> 00:35:27.090
so, you know, we stayed in touch and as soon as we kind of came out of COVID then, you know, they commissioned WIPA and the game was on.

00:35:27.090 --> 00:35:28.342
It's fantastic.

00:35:28.342 --> 00:35:37.047
I mean, I think what's interesting about them is worked with other more independent publishers and in terms of kind of the big US publishers, they're the only one I've worked with.

00:35:37.047 --> 00:35:39.467
But obviously I know an awful lot from...

00:35:39.697 --> 00:35:41.492
friends and colleagues and stuff.

00:35:41.492 --> 00:35:48.420
I think the balance that they strike, which is quite special, is they're really pro and they're really, you they're on it.

00:35:48.420 --> 00:36:00.434
I mean, you really feel the editorial support, you know, they're going through things, basically making you work better and making you look better, which is essential, but they're very, very respectful of creators.

00:36:00.434 --> 00:36:03.434
And so they'll be as involved or as uninvolved as you want.

00:36:03.434 --> 00:36:08.141
And I have to say, I'm not going to be some diva and be like, I don't need any editorial involvement.

00:36:08.141 --> 00:36:18.382
I like some editorial involvement, but I also know what I'm doing creatively and they are a thousand percent supportive in that and that's been the experience of all the people I know who have been at Dark Horse.

00:36:18.382 --> 00:36:21.411
So it's quite special to have that space.

00:36:21.411 --> 00:36:28.172
I think, you I mean, you need it, particularly if you're working in a creator-owned space, which is what I've been working in.

00:36:28.172 --> 00:36:32.661
You want that support, but you want to be very free in doing what you want to do.

00:36:32.661 --> 00:36:35.501
And it just feels like I've chimed very well with them.

00:36:35.501 --> 00:36:38.155
So I've been very lucky getting involved there.

00:36:38.155 --> 00:36:44.969
I feel like that's the true sort of pillar personality trait for like a great creator.

00:36:44.969 --> 00:36:53.594
Not just in comics, but also just in general when you can take sort of feedback and not just assume that everything that you do is perfect.

00:36:53.594 --> 00:36:54.346
And I agree with you.

00:36:54.346 --> 00:36:57.998
Everything that I've heard about Daniel and the team over there at Dark Horse has been glowing.

00:36:57.998 --> 00:37:10.108
Never once have I heard a bad thing about how they handle their stuff with creators and sort of the process that goes along not only with new creators, but There's a reason why a lot of long-term creators take some of their creator on work over to Dark Horse.

00:37:10.108 --> 00:37:22.155
You know, it's also funny Chris, it's like, you are a pro enough to realize as well, you know, it's almost like the more I do in comics, the more I realize like what a complicated craft it is.

00:37:22.155 --> 00:37:34.943
You know, it's like there's so many different layers and the assembly of it and the timing is quite tight by the time it's green lit and you're going and you're handing art in, you're lettering and you're laying and you're coloring and you're...

00:37:34.943 --> 00:37:39.097
you really need a crack team because so much can go wrong.

00:37:39.097 --> 00:37:40.518
mean, is extraordinary.

00:37:40.518 --> 00:37:46.418
Every project there's like absolutely, you know, zingers and humdingers and whatever you want to call them.

00:37:46.418 --> 00:37:49.554
It's just like, just, you're like, how did I not see this coming?

00:37:49.554 --> 00:37:50.605
Like I've done this before.

00:37:50.605 --> 00:37:51.896
How could this thing crop up?

00:37:51.896 --> 00:37:56.047
But there's always something like that because that's the nature of the beast.

00:37:56.047 --> 00:38:03.483
So it's absolutely crucial to have a super pro team around you that can just one woman like, well it's in bracelets.

00:38:03.483 --> 00:38:04.755
You you need it.

00:38:04.755 --> 00:38:07.847
It's sort of amazing having that kind of team energy.

00:38:07.847 --> 00:38:17.313
You know, speaking of hummers and zingers over here, just, I got to briefly, I don't have any like direct questions about it, but I just have to tell you the first three issues of summer shadows has been excellent.

00:38:17.313 --> 00:38:21.565
You know, again, over there at dark horse comics, you and artist Ricardo Cabrera.

00:38:21.565 --> 00:38:22.815
Am I saying that correctly?

00:38:22.815 --> 00:38:23.177
Yeah.

00:38:23.177 --> 00:38:23.387
Yeah.

00:38:23.387 --> 00:38:23.706
Cabral.

00:38:23.706 --> 00:38:24.697
Excuse me.

00:38:24.717 --> 00:38:26.007
You guys are absolutely killing it.

00:38:26.007 --> 00:38:33.798
That first issue talk about just handsome one, the first issue and get them hooked right then and there, you know, I'm going to talk about it again.

00:38:33.798 --> 00:38:34.739
And I know he's listening right now.

00:38:34.739 --> 00:38:38.760
Christian, when he's always telling me when it comes to creating comics, you got to have it.

00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:40.202
You got to have like a good hook.

00:38:40.202 --> 00:38:41.012
Right.

00:38:41.012 --> 00:38:45.144
And this book here talk about vampires on a Greek beach.

00:38:45.144 --> 00:38:46.115
What else do you need?

00:38:46.115 --> 00:38:52.469
You know, and broken relationships and detectives, you know, going in and there and try to find killers.

00:38:52.469 --> 00:39:01.001
It just it's it's something that I just hope doesn't get overlooked by readers today, because when I go to my local comic book shop and I only see like at least one.

00:39:01.001 --> 00:39:02.373
issue of summer shadows out there.

00:39:02.373 --> 00:39:04.333
like, okay, good people are buying this and I love that.

00:39:04.333 --> 00:39:04.695
Yeah.

00:39:04.695 --> 00:39:05.385
I'm so pleased.

00:39:05.385 --> 00:39:06.226
Thank you so much.

00:39:06.226 --> 00:39:11.208
Look, it's such a weird thing, Chris, because like, thank you for those kind words.

00:39:11.208 --> 00:39:23.387
And it's just like, I've had the most incredible feedback from people, you know, like, you know, I mean, I've had people like, you know, James Tinian coming back, Tinian, sorry, I should use the correct pronunciation.

00:39:23.387 --> 00:39:24.228
I think it is Tinian.

00:39:24.228 --> 00:39:26.699
I always say James or Tinian actually.

00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:28.760
It's tiny onion, the company.

00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:30.181
So maybe it's tiny.

00:39:30.382 --> 00:39:32.442
I'm more James.

00:39:33.882 --> 00:39:41.262
you know, he's been very generous and know, Teenie Howard came over to Phil Bubble and we were doing a talk together and she was like, this is my book of the year.

00:39:41.262 --> 00:39:50.072
So I mean, people have been really kind, but you know, it's difficult because you know, I'm not a big name yet and people don't know the card as well.

00:39:50.072 --> 00:39:52.481
So it is literally a word of mouth thing.

00:39:52.481 --> 00:39:58.512
So what I'm really delighted by is, you know, to have your support, to have the support of a few other creators.

00:39:58.512 --> 00:40:09.646
And I think As it runs and it's then collected into a trade paperback, I just have this belief that this thing will have a life because it's come together in a way that, you know, it's kind of surprised even us.

00:40:09.646 --> 00:40:11.056
We're really proud of it.

00:40:11.056 --> 00:40:21.846
And I can't wait for you to see how wraps up because it's sort of the way we created it was almost like Dante's Inferno where every issue gets more and more hardcore.

00:40:21.846 --> 00:40:26.315
you know, by the time you get to issue three and everybody's shagging on the yacht and everything's getting more and more crazy.

00:40:26.315 --> 00:40:28.070
And then issue four is like.

00:40:28.085 --> 00:40:28.766
another level.

00:40:28.766 --> 00:40:34.768
So I'm really interested for people to go on that journey and how you feel by the end of it.

00:40:34.768 --> 00:40:36.697
And that is the last issue of the series, issue four?

00:40:36.697 --> 00:40:37.409
That's right.

00:40:37.409 --> 00:40:37.777
Yeah.

00:40:37.777 --> 00:40:37.965
Yeah.

00:40:37.965 --> 00:40:39.028
It's just four.

00:40:39.028 --> 00:40:40.268
Same as Ripperland.

00:40:40.268 --> 00:40:48.731
Ripperland is four as well, but I think both me and Steve and Alessandro would very much like to continue it.

00:40:48.731 --> 00:40:55.673
So we'll see, but it is a complete story arc in the four, but we're so in love with the world now and the characters.

00:40:55.673 --> 00:40:57.853
Here's hoping that we get to do more.

00:40:58.510 --> 00:41:01.873
I can't wait for people to get their hands on that first issue again comes out January 22nd.

00:41:01.873 --> 00:41:03.985
But John, I have one more question for you.

00:41:03.985 --> 00:41:06.476
We've had a great conversation here on the oblivion bar.

00:41:06.637 --> 00:41:07.887
We like to ask all of our guests.

00:41:07.887 --> 00:41:12.501
We like to leave them with basically one final question, which is what are you loving right now?

00:41:12.501 --> 00:41:20.347
Well, you got one form of media, comic movie, video game, podcasts, what have you, what's something you love and you want to highlight to the listeners today?

00:41:21.708 --> 00:41:27.153
I'm actually just going to stick on comics because I just think there was, there were so many amazing comics at the moment.

00:41:27.153 --> 00:41:35.108
mean, I have to say probably the thing that's blown my mind most is by this little known writer called Christian Ward.

00:41:35.568 --> 00:41:39.048
Christian is literally like ding, ding, ding, ding.

00:41:39.048 --> 00:41:40.210
the references.

00:41:40.210 --> 00:41:42.920
Two-Face is so amazing.

00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:48.152
mean, for a start, just can't believe it's the first time it's Two-Face said his own book.

00:41:48.152 --> 00:41:50.552
It's crazy because Christian loves Two-Face.

00:41:50.552 --> 00:41:53.414
I know he does, but I do as well and I think a lot of people do.

00:41:53.414 --> 00:41:55.074
So that's really bizarre.

00:41:55.179 --> 00:42:00.293
What he did with that issue, the art that, you know, the artist he's working with is incredible.

00:42:00.675 --> 00:42:09.001
And just the way he's unpacked it and brought this completely fresh perspective and the supporting cast, just, I think it's just amazing.

00:42:09.001 --> 00:42:11.463
Like really, so that's extraordinary.

00:42:11.463 --> 00:42:13.143
Absolute Wonder Woman.

00:42:13.164 --> 00:42:15.425
I just, I could not be enjoying it more.

00:42:15.425 --> 00:42:16.967
I love Wonder Woman.

00:42:16.967 --> 00:42:25.054
And I just, think that's a real return to kind of my favorite period, which is the kind of, you know, George Perez kind of.

00:42:25.722 --> 00:43:00.989
90s and then just before that kind of 80s period is just my favorite favorite period and it's just it's a real return to that and then the last one I'm going to say is the Green Lantern Dark which is just completely yes yeah like you know the writing and the art on that is just mind-blowing so I I feel so jazzed about comics right now I mean I could go on endlessly but I think we're in you know because you know same as the film industry you know A lot of industries are struggling because there's so much tumult going on in political and financial and whatever, but the material is just so incredibly good.

00:43:00.989 --> 00:43:05.929
So I can't help but feel really jazzed about what's happening in the immediate future.

00:43:05.929 --> 00:43:07.349
I agree 100%.

00:43:07.349 --> 00:43:08.690
And I love all three of those entries.

00:43:08.690 --> 00:43:16.210
mean, Christian, of course, good friend of the show, but I would be the first to tell you if I didn't love everything that he does, but it just so happens that I do.

00:43:16.210 --> 00:43:29.085
And that two-face run, what I really appreciate it, I don't know if I've actually told him this yet or not, but What I really appreciate is how Harvey, it's a pretty clear look at two face and his, his priority of justice, right?

00:43:29.085 --> 00:43:29.365
Yes.

00:43:29.365 --> 00:43:34.329
Like in the story, Zazz and the spoilers for everybody, I slight spoilers for the first issue of two face.

00:43:34.329 --> 00:43:37.809
If you haven't read it yet, but basically Zazz is on trial.

00:43:38.048 --> 00:43:40.190
You should have already gotten it by now everybody.

00:43:40.710 --> 00:43:49.389
But Zazz is on trial and you can tell that although things happen there, there towards the end of that issue, the one thing that Harvey's interested in is the justice of it all.

00:43:49.389 --> 00:43:56.110
He wants to lay out the entire problem and have the jury figure it out.

00:43:56.110 --> 00:43:57.769
And he wants to that to best of his ability.

00:43:57.769 --> 00:43:59.730
And I love that sort of through line.

00:43:59.730 --> 00:44:03.050
And then of course, the teaser there at the end of that first issue is phenomenal.

00:44:03.050 --> 00:44:04.590
And I agree with you on that.

00:44:04.590 --> 00:44:08.909
I just find it strange that I think about how many two-faced stories I've read.

00:44:08.909 --> 00:44:14.617
And yet that is never really unpacked very much, is that the fact is Harvey was a good man.

00:44:14.617 --> 00:44:16.398
And he's only half evil.

00:44:16.398 --> 00:44:19.880
So there is this goodness, which isn't usually played with as much.

00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:22.661
It's really cool to dig into that.

00:44:22.661 --> 00:44:24.103
I think he's done a great job on it.

00:44:24.103 --> 00:44:24.943
Yeah.

00:44:24.943 --> 00:44:26.233
With Absolute Wonder Woman, I agree.

00:44:26.233 --> 00:44:29.186
It's my favorite of the three new Absolute series thus far.

00:44:29.186 --> 00:44:30.121
The other two are great.

00:44:30.121 --> 00:44:31.317
I'm not saying that's not like any...

00:44:31.317 --> 00:44:32.438
exactly.

00:44:32.438 --> 00:44:33.387
So that's high praise.

00:44:33.387 --> 00:44:33.807
I agree.

00:44:33.807 --> 00:44:34.559
Both of them are great.

00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.690
But that is just, it's so in the spirit of her as well.

00:44:37.690 --> 00:44:44.134
Like it's got gravitas, but it's got that kind of mythological playfulness without it being silly.

00:44:44.255 --> 00:44:51.710
It's still quite funny and the whole hell, if it wasn't played right, it would just be too much and kind of like too many ideas.

00:44:51.710 --> 00:44:57.443
But it's absolutely pitch perfect that there's this like touch of darkness that she carries so lightly.

00:44:57.443 --> 00:45:00.804
It's so clever that like you can't outwander the wonder woman.

00:45:00.804 --> 00:45:04.286
She still stays kind of cheerful and upbeat and heroic.

00:45:04.286 --> 00:45:05.677
It's just, wonderful.

00:45:05.677 --> 00:45:06.217
Yeah.

00:45:06.217 --> 00:45:08.048
And you said it so perfectly too.

00:45:08.048 --> 00:45:15.393
It's like Kelly and Hayden have perfectly encompassed sort of the I want to say silly and don't hear what I'm not saying here.

00:45:15.393 --> 00:45:24.000
There's like a little bit silliness to it and they're like capturing it perfectly and balancing that darkness with it, which I also think that Tom and Daniel are doing really well on the normal ongoing run.

00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:25.271
Really enjoying that too.

00:45:25.271 --> 00:45:25.561
Yeah.

00:45:25.561 --> 00:45:29.054
Really just really encompassing like what's great about Wonder Woman.

00:45:29.054 --> 00:45:33.456
I think first and foremost is that she's badass and that no one does it like her.

00:45:33.456 --> 00:45:33.836
Right?

00:45:33.836 --> 00:45:34.978
I I agree.

00:45:34.978 --> 00:45:36.989
I'm also I'm collecting that as well.

00:45:36.989 --> 00:45:37.780
It's fantastic.

00:45:37.780 --> 00:45:39.581
And I'm such a big Wonder Woman head.

00:45:39.581 --> 00:45:52.418
I love Basically, DC and Marvel editors, listen closely because I love those female characters like Wonder Woman, She-Hulk, Spider-Woman, Dazzler.

00:45:52.418 --> 00:45:55.927
Those characters, when I was growing up, were my favorite characters.

00:45:55.927 --> 00:45:57.657
They're really interesting.

00:45:57.657 --> 00:46:00.148
So there's really cool stuff to be done with them.

00:46:00.148 --> 00:46:04.458
And I think those guys are absolutely nailing Wonder Woman in particular.

00:46:04.878 --> 00:46:07.518
And just to briefly touch too, you said Green Lantern Dark as well.

00:46:07.518 --> 00:46:08.862
Great first issue.

00:46:08.862 --> 00:46:11.063
know, Tate and Werther absolutely knocked it of the park.

00:46:11.063 --> 00:46:16.664
I was sort of nervous that there was only going to be one issue initially, but I'm so happy to hear that this is going to be like an ongoing thing.

00:46:16.664 --> 00:46:21.876
it's like for me, it's like a, it's like a thing that I loved about comics as a kid.

00:46:21.876 --> 00:46:23.543
And I still love about comics as a grownup.

00:46:23.543 --> 00:46:28.628
It's like, kind of want to crawl in, like if the comic is going to be, you want to crawl into the world and inhabit it.

00:46:28.628 --> 00:46:33.210
with Green Lantern Dark, it's just like, that is a real return to...

00:46:33.351 --> 00:46:37.224
absolutely classic Green Lantern, but you just want to be in that world.

00:46:37.224 --> 00:46:41.208
Like it's realized the world building in it is so incredible.

00:46:41.208 --> 00:46:46.233
You just want to be with those characters and in that space, it's really, it's a huge achievement.

00:46:46.233 --> 00:46:47.364
You describe that perfectly.

00:46:47.364 --> 00:46:56.820
And you want to know a series that actually made me feel exactly like that was the city beneath her feet by aforementioned James Tynan and, and artists, Elsa Chardinier.

00:46:56.820 --> 00:46:57.271
Perfect.

00:46:57.271 --> 00:47:02.815
Like when I, when you see those Jordi Bella, Jordi Bella cover colors, Jesus colors.

00:47:03.233 --> 00:47:06.126
And then obviously Elsa's interiors and James's incredible script.

00:47:06.126 --> 00:47:08.577
It's just, it's like perfect comic book making.

00:47:08.577 --> 00:47:09.978
Perfect comic book making.

00:47:09.978 --> 00:47:13.451
couldn't agree with you more like firing on all cylinders.

00:47:13.451 --> 00:47:16.163
And we're just so lucky to have these creators out there.

00:47:16.483 --> 00:47:16.983
Yeah.

00:47:16.983 --> 00:47:18.289
Agreed 100%.

00:47:18.289 --> 00:47:20.206
Well, John, that's all I have for you today.

00:47:20.206 --> 00:47:21.507
I don't want to keep you too long here.

00:47:21.507 --> 00:47:25.650
I truly, truly appreciate you coming here onto the oblivion bar podcast.

00:47:25.650 --> 00:47:27.931
And as I said a moment ago, I'm to say it one more time.

00:47:27.931 --> 00:47:28.322
Ripper land.

00:47:28.322 --> 00:47:31.619
Number one hits shelves on January 22nd, 2025.

00:47:31.905 --> 00:47:34.286
And I want to end the conversation by saying this here.

00:47:34.286 --> 00:47:37.918
You know, I said this, I sort of preface this conversation with this.

00:47:37.918 --> 00:47:39.427
I want to reiterate it again.

00:47:39.427 --> 00:47:47.849
I knew when you and I have a conversation there in front of Christian's Booth there at New York Comic Con that, you know, I needed to get you on here and talk to you about comics and everything else in between.

00:47:47.849 --> 00:47:51.710
But I don't want my word to be it here with the listeners here.

00:47:51.710 --> 00:47:54.612
If you can't take my word, true believer, take this word here.

00:47:54.612 --> 00:47:56.773
How about from a legend really quickly?

00:47:56.853 --> 00:48:01.260
A wonderfully imaginative and stylish piece of work and a perfect example.

00:48:01.260 --> 00:48:05.311
of the adventurous new direction that comics should be taking in the future.

00:48:05.612 --> 00:48:07.702
And also JDH is super cool.

00:48:07.702 --> 00:48:10.293
And that's the words from Alan Moore.

00:48:10.293 --> 00:48:14.215
Alan Moore actually gave that little, I will say like a, what do call it?

00:48:14.215 --> 00:48:21.438
Like a pull quote, there we go, a pull quote for to molt with your work there with Michael Kennedy.

00:48:21.438 --> 00:48:24.199
And actually the JDH is super cool part was actually from me.

00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:26.880
But I think Alan Moore agreed, right?

00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:32.420
It was quite funny because basically I asked Alan to do a pull quote.

00:48:32.420 --> 00:48:39.565
was actually for, sorry to, I think the information might have been misdelivered to you, but basically it was for the one before that.

00:48:39.565 --> 00:48:40.965
was for Salem Brownstone.

00:48:40.965 --> 00:48:43.246
It was bit more sort of magical.

00:48:43.246 --> 00:48:48.039
And basically I asked him if he would do a pull quote for me and he was like, I'm really sorry.

00:48:48.039 --> 00:48:49.751
I don't do pull quotes.

00:48:49.751 --> 00:48:51.672
I was like, okay, that's fair enough.

00:48:51.713 --> 00:48:59.648
And I went off and I bought a crystal ball from Madagascar, which is a little island off Africa.

00:48:59.733 --> 00:49:01.125
Sure.

00:49:01.125 --> 00:49:02.155
then I bought exactly.

00:49:02.155 --> 00:49:07.521
then I bought some 1930s Nancy Drew notebook paper original.

00:49:07.521 --> 00:49:13.826
And I wrote him a letter saying, Alan, I know you said you don't do pull quotes, but would you mind looking into this crystal ball?

00:49:13.826 --> 00:49:21.362
And once you've done that, tell me, tell me whether you see, you know, it in your heart to like send me a full quote.

00:49:21.362 --> 00:49:23.733
The crystal ball will find what's deep in your heart.

00:49:23.733 --> 00:49:25.155
He came back with a pull quote.

00:49:25.155 --> 00:49:26.956
It was just like, okay, fine.

00:49:26.956 --> 00:49:28.297
You've worked hard enough for it.

00:49:28.297 --> 00:49:30.840
So So that was the great magician.

00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:45.110
And then I met him a few times after that and it was such an honor because he is obviously one of the great writers of our times and he's certainly one of the greatest comic writers ever.

00:49:45.391 --> 00:49:51.577
he's also, he is a magician and there is something very, very special and unusual about him.

00:49:51.577 --> 00:49:54.818
So I felt very lucky to met him a couple of times.

00:49:55.079 --> 00:49:56.780
What a cool guy.

00:49:56.900 --> 00:49:57.902
I envy you.

00:49:57.902 --> 00:50:04.052
And now I only have one question, which is what was the ink that you used to put into your, like you wrote the letter and put it in your crystal ball.

00:50:04.052 --> 00:50:08.302
Was it like goat blood or did you use like a fairy dust of some sort?

00:50:08.302 --> 00:50:08.842
What was it?

00:50:08.842 --> 00:50:09.081
was it?

00:50:09.081 --> 00:50:10.291
No, that would be telling.

00:50:10.291 --> 00:50:10.742
Yeah.

00:50:10.742 --> 00:50:13.402
We can't, we can't devolve too much here.

00:50:13.402 --> 00:50:14.862
Can't devolve too much.

00:50:14.862 --> 00:50:15.981
Yeah, exactly.

00:50:16.501 --> 00:50:17.132
All right, John.

00:50:17.132 --> 00:50:19.942
Well, I'm going to leave, I'm going to pass the baton off to you one more time here.

00:50:19.942 --> 00:50:23.077
Is there anything you want to plug or say to the listeners before we head out of here?

00:50:23.382 --> 00:50:24.572
No, no, not at all.

00:50:24.572 --> 00:50:29.153
Just, you know, thanks for, thanks for picking up Ripperland on the 22nd of January.

00:50:29.153 --> 00:50:31.635
I'm also on social media as well.

00:50:31.635 --> 00:50:35.947
So I love hearing back from people, you know, tell me what you think.

00:50:35.947 --> 00:50:38.628
You know, I'd love to hear your perspective.

00:50:39.168 --> 00:50:39.534
All right.

00:50:39.534 --> 00:50:39.815
Awesome.

00:50:39.815 --> 00:50:40.699
Well, John, thank you so much.

00:50:40.699 --> 00:50:42.168
We'll talk to you here soon.

00:50:42.168 --> 00:50:43.179
Thanks for having me.

00:50:43.179 --> 00:50:44.710
Such a pleasure to be on.