INTERVIEW: Christopher Cantwell & Tyler Crook

WEBVTT

00:00:00.087 --> 00:00:02.059
Hey, this is Chris Cantwell.

00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:09.109
We are the creative team of the mystery thriller Out of Alcatraz from Oni Press.

00:00:09.109 --> 00:00:12.300
and you are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

00:00:16.184 --> 00:00:23.609
Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles.

00:00:39.853 --> 00:00:43.856
Hello everyone and welcome to episode 181 of the Oblivion Bar podcast.

00:00:43.856 --> 00:00:47.137
I am Chris Hacker, one of your co-hosts here on the Oblivion Bar.

00:00:47.137 --> 00:00:48.707
I am solo this week.

00:00:48.707 --> 00:00:49.887
We have no Aaron Knowles.

00:00:49.887 --> 00:00:52.460
I know you guys are all so disappointed to hear that.

00:00:52.460 --> 00:01:07.165
My BFF and co-host will be back next week, but I wanted to bring everybody in for this conversation with the creative team about of Alcatraz number one and the entire series over Oni Press writer Christopher Cantwell and illustrator Tyler Crook.

00:01:07.165 --> 00:01:07.864
Now.

00:01:07.864 --> 00:01:15.197
I was very excited to get both these gentlemen on to talk about this series that I've already had the chance to read the first issue for.

00:01:15.197 --> 00:01:18.778
That first issue actually comes out on March 19th.

00:01:18.778 --> 00:01:20.308
And that's quite a bit of ways, obviously.

00:01:20.308 --> 00:01:26.141
We're only in February, but FOC for that series is on February 24th.

00:01:26.141 --> 00:01:33.204
So this gives everyone an opportunity as you're listening to this conversation with both Chris and Tyler to go ahead and pre-order that book.

00:01:33.204 --> 00:01:35.629
I say it in the conversation here and I want to just reiterate it.

00:01:35.629 --> 00:01:40.370
here right at the top of the conversation before we get into it, that this is a book that you want to support.

00:01:40.370 --> 00:01:42.269
This is a book that you want to preorder.

00:01:42.269 --> 00:01:44.030
This feels really special.

00:01:44.030 --> 00:01:47.090
And I think you'll get some of that in this conversation.

00:01:47.090 --> 00:02:00.870
But I want to say right at the top that, and I sort of poke fun at this during the conversation that when I was talking to Aaron about out of Alcatraz and getting to read that first issue, I immediately was like, this is my favorite book of the year.

00:02:00.870 --> 00:02:08.551
Now, granted we are only in February, but It sort of has that gloss of weight and importance that I think people should know about.

00:02:08.551 --> 00:02:09.951
Like this is a book.

00:02:09.951 --> 00:02:17.484
This is a book that I feel like I could give someone, you know, either after it's finished or even before it's finished and tell them this is why comics are awesome.

00:02:17.484 --> 00:02:20.914
This is another example of this is why comics are great.

00:02:20.914 --> 00:02:25.156
And it was such an honor to talk to both Chris and Tyler about it.

00:02:25.156 --> 00:02:28.116
I've been a fan of both of theirs, both individually before the series.

00:02:28.116 --> 00:02:31.457
Chris is, you know, the writer of she could fly.

00:02:31.457 --> 00:02:31.978
There's a Dr.

00:02:31.978 --> 00:02:34.610
Doom series that I really love that we talk about during this conversation.

00:02:34.610 --> 00:02:37.397
He obviously has done the United States of Captain America.

00:02:37.397 --> 00:02:40.986
He did the reboot of the mask with Patrick Reynolds, good friend of the show.

00:02:40.986 --> 00:02:45.713
And obviously he's also worked on more recently the plastic man no more series that people are really enjoying.

00:02:45.713 --> 00:02:52.698
And then of course, Tyler Crook, Harrow County, DPRD, the stone king, Petrograph, the Lonesome Hunters.

00:02:52.698 --> 00:02:55.460
All of these are, I'm not shy about this.

00:02:55.460 --> 00:02:57.581
If you follow us over on social media.

00:02:57.629 --> 00:03:00.841
Or if you just know me personally, you know that I'm a giant Tyler Crook fan.

00:03:00.841 --> 00:03:05.222
We had him on the show last year to promote the Lonesome Hunters, the Wolf Child.

00:03:05.222 --> 00:03:14.634
And I was familiar with his work and I liked Tarot County quite a bit, but it was when the Lonesome Hunters came out is where I really started to become a hardcore Tyler Crook stan.

00:03:14.634 --> 00:03:18.415
And again, I know I've said it multiple times already in the intro.

00:03:18.415 --> 00:03:25.774
You know, I spend my wheels a lot when I'm here by myself because I don't have Aaron to bounce off of, but I'm such a huge fan of these guys and I cannot.

00:03:25.774 --> 00:03:29.593
boasts enough about this series out of Alcatraz from Oni Press.

00:03:29.593 --> 00:03:34.433
And again, we talk about it in the conversation, but I want to say and sort of reiterate here, Oni Press, wow.

00:03:34.433 --> 00:03:37.274
They're teasing these series throughout 2025.

00:03:37.473 --> 00:03:38.993
That's just, it's insane.

00:03:38.993 --> 00:03:44.193
That's like they're sort of reforming, reshaping their identity as a publisher.

00:03:44.193 --> 00:03:54.027
Now, again, they are obviously known for publishing Scott Pilgrim and they have put out a lot of great series throughout the years, but you've got free for all.

00:03:54.027 --> 00:04:01.643
the new Patrick Horvath series that has covers from Junie Ba and Matt Lesniewski and Matt Kent.

00:04:01.698 --> 00:04:05.366
it's just, and Dave Stewart, like that right there would have been enough.

00:04:05.366 --> 00:04:08.067
And obviously along with Al of Alcatraz to get me on board.

00:04:08.067 --> 00:04:19.915
But of course the stuff they're doing with EC comics, which, know, slight tease here, Tyler talks about how he, not only did he do a story with Matthew Rosenberg, but he also wrote and drew a story of his own in the next issue.

00:04:19.915 --> 00:04:27.444
But you've also got Justin Jordan and Chris Sheehan's Hunt Mine, A Long Lonesome Grave that's coming out later this year.

00:04:27.444 --> 00:04:32.286
You also have Chris Condon and Sean Canaro's The Goddamn Tragedy that's coming out later this year.

00:04:32.468 --> 00:04:33.588
my gosh, I mean, there's just so many.

00:04:33.588 --> 00:04:38.230
There's also The Power Lords that's coming out from Dennis Culver and Matt Hodson.

00:04:38.512 --> 00:04:45.557
There's just like so many things that Oni Press is about to put out here in this brand new comic year that makes you really excited.

00:04:45.557 --> 00:04:57.725
Now I wanna preface this conversation with both Chris and Tyler that as soon as we hop on the line here, we immediately get into We sort of talk a little bit about the political landscape.

00:04:57.725 --> 00:05:12.536
And I know this is a, I hope that this is an outlet for folks to sort of step away from the normal NPR news overload where it's just bad news after bad news, because that's currently where we are in this political landscape.

00:05:12.598 --> 00:05:18.901
You've got the president and his administration just wholesale destroying whole departments.

00:05:20.264 --> 00:05:20.904
it's wild.

00:05:20.904 --> 00:05:22.995
And again, I don't want to get into that even here now.

00:05:23.170 --> 00:05:28.754
But it's important, I think, not only because we should have these things on the front of our mind.

00:05:28.754 --> 00:05:38.773
You know, I'm not immune to any of that, but I think, again, it's not only just important for the conversation, but it's also important to contextualize what is going on in Alcatraz.

00:05:38.773 --> 00:05:48.451
Again, this is taking place in 1962 where the civil rights movement is sort of ramping up and we're almost entering a new era of America.

00:05:48.451 --> 00:06:00.822
And ironically enough, again, your thoughts on the current landscape of the United States may vary, but it almost feels like we're leaving what we were entering in 1962 in a certain capacity.

00:06:00.822 --> 00:06:06.021
And know, again, I don't know a ton about the escapes of Alcatraz and all the details.

00:06:06.021 --> 00:06:13.201
So I had a really great time with out of Alcatraz, number one, because Chris and Tyler really play with that mythology on like an expert level.

00:06:13.201 --> 00:06:14.701
So I can't boast enough about it.

00:06:14.701 --> 00:06:19.382
I'm just going to shut up and I'm going let us get to this conversation with both Chris and Tyler.

00:06:19.382 --> 00:06:21.557
But first really quickly, shameless plug.

00:06:21.557 --> 00:06:29.360
If you want to support the oblivion bar podcast, if you enjoy common book podcast, please consider supporting the show over on patreon.com forward slash oblivion bar pod.

00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:36.213
You're not only helping support the show cause we put all that money back into the show, but also you're getting a little something as well.

00:06:36.213 --> 00:06:47.829
Aaron and I, like to put on a weekly bonus podcast called the grid 30 to 40 to sometimes 50 minutes of extra content where we sort of talk about what we generally wouldn't talk about here on the normal show.

00:06:47.829 --> 00:06:55.601
Last week on the grid, talked about the brand new Fantastic Four trailer, the Fantastic Four first steps that took the world by storm.

00:06:55.723 --> 00:06:59.516
led us a little bit of a preve and then they immediately released a bunch of AI posters.

00:06:59.516 --> 00:07:01.367
So, you know, that'll happen.

00:07:01.367 --> 00:07:06.654
And we also sort of gauge our excitement of Captain America Brave New World, which comes out the week that you're listening to this.

00:07:06.654 --> 00:07:08.894
So that's what you can get over on Patreon.

00:07:08.894 --> 00:07:10.685
You can also get episode transcripts.

00:07:10.685 --> 00:07:13.057
You get access to see how we prepare for the show.

00:07:13.057 --> 00:07:17.130
You get Patreon polls, question threads for the creators that we have on the show.

00:07:17.130 --> 00:07:17.942
We give you...

00:07:17.942 --> 00:07:20.262
an opportunity to ask the creators questions.

00:07:20.262 --> 00:07:21.572
All of that is over on Patreon.

00:07:21.572 --> 00:07:22.593
Again, there's multiple tiers.

00:07:22.593 --> 00:07:23.744
You can try it out for free.

00:07:23.744 --> 00:07:26.404
There's a seven day free trial, all those cool things.

00:07:26.404 --> 00:07:29.336
once again, patreon.com forward slash at building bar pod.

00:07:29.336 --> 00:07:33.466
can either go there or check out the link in the show notes, whatever.

00:07:33.487 --> 00:07:35.208
But again, enough of that.

00:07:35.208 --> 00:07:41.459
I'm so excited to bring this conversation you guys let's go ahead and get this conversation with both Christopher Cantwell and Tyler Crook.

00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:46.581
And now, this week's special guest.

00:07:49.517 --> 00:07:55.399
Joining me today is the creative team of the upcoming mystery thriller Out of Alcatraz from Oni Press.

00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:59.680
One is the co-creator of the critically acclaimed AMC series Halt and Catch Fire.

00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:10.483
He's also the writer of series like She Could Fly, Briar, the United States of Captain America, The Mask, The Pledge of Allegiance to the Mask, Plastic Man No More, and the Eiser nominated Dr.

00:08:10.483 --> 00:08:11.723
Doom series.

00:08:11.764 --> 00:08:19.084
The other is also Eiser nominated and he's also the creator behind Harrow County, BPRD, The Stone King, and The Lonesome Hunters.

00:08:19.084 --> 00:08:24.170
It is my pleasure to welcome both Christopher Cantwell and Tyler Crook onto the Oblivion Bar podcast.

00:08:24.170 --> 00:08:29.559
Hey, thank you! Hello! You guys sound lively and that's good.

00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:32.452
It's been, I'm so happy you're here first.

00:08:32.452 --> 00:08:35.826
I should say that before I get into the madness that we're currently living.

00:08:35.826 --> 00:08:41.581
you know, before we get that out of Alcatraz, I found out recently, Chris, that you're no longer on social media.

00:08:41.581 --> 00:08:43.433
Congratulations on that.

00:08:43.557 --> 00:08:45.078
I am.

00:08:45.078 --> 00:08:46.519
I yeah, Tyler, I'm sorry.

00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:48.461
I know we're about to promote a book.

00:08:48.461 --> 00:08:50.263
Let me know.

00:08:50.263 --> 00:08:52.203
It was just like, good joke.

00:08:52.345 --> 00:08:53.706
I just did it, man.

00:08:53.706 --> 00:08:54.505
It was.

00:08:54.886 --> 00:08:56.265
I'm so glad that you did.

00:08:56.265 --> 00:08:57.775
I honestly wish I could do that.

00:08:57.775 --> 00:08:59.501
I envy you in that sense.

00:08:59.501 --> 00:09:06.399
My therapist says that it was probably equally like a self-destructive isolating move and then also probably a very healthy move.

00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:07.802
So it's like a dialectic.

00:09:07.802 --> 00:09:08.464
You know what I mean?

00:09:08.464 --> 00:09:09.806
Like both are true.

00:09:09.806 --> 00:09:17.285
We're all kind of prone to some of those actions, but we are roughly 37 days into 2025 and it feels like it's been about 18 months.

00:09:17.706 --> 00:09:20.086
So, Chris, you've kind of gotten into it a little bit.

00:09:20.086 --> 00:09:21.926
How are you guys doing mentally?

00:09:22.586 --> 00:09:23.725
How's things?

00:09:24.379 --> 00:09:26.370
Man, it's yeah, it's rough.

00:09:26.370 --> 00:09:46.025
Like, I love my country and, and I don't feel like the country that I was born in is going to, is going to make it, you know, it's, yeah, it's really stressful time and I don't quite know what to do.

00:09:46.025 --> 00:09:54.325
You know, I'm doing my, my bit to call my reps and I'm involved in, you know, my local politics stuff.

00:09:54.325 --> 00:09:57.798
And that seems to be about all I can do.

00:09:58.220 --> 00:09:58.655
Yeah.

00:09:58.655 --> 00:09:59.779
Chris, how about you?

00:10:00.110 --> 00:10:09.009
I live in Los Angeles, and I actually just moved back to Los Angeles on December 30th of last year.

00:10:09.549 --> 00:10:17.409
We'd lived in a town called Claremont, which is a college town about 30, 40 miles east towards the mountains.

00:10:17.990 --> 00:10:26.710
We lived at a boarding school there and we finally made the move back to LA and we moved to a little...

00:10:26.710 --> 00:10:31.193
neighborhood called Highland Park and we're literally my street is the border of Pasadena.

00:10:31.413 --> 00:10:39.160
And so a weekend, you could see the weekend to our arrival, you could see the eaten fire from our front porch.

00:10:40.101 --> 00:10:42.783
and so it was horrendous.

00:10:42.783 --> 00:10:53.879
And, I mean, I, and I can't even, that's even seems like a, it's an understatement of a word for this experience out here, but, yeah, there's just the list of.

00:10:53.879 --> 00:11:07.197
people I know and love and care about, worked with over the last 25 years in LA, the LA County area who have lost everything or been displaced or are suffering in some other ways.

00:11:07.717 --> 00:11:08.717
It's terrible.

00:11:08.717 --> 00:11:15.221
And that actually is one of the reasons why I hit the ejector seat on the socials.

00:11:15.322 --> 00:11:24.793
I had pulled back a lot and I was only on Blue Sky, the supposed better version of what came before.

00:11:25.474 --> 00:11:29.293
But, you know, that week leading up to the fires, there was all this stuff with Instagram.

00:11:29.293 --> 00:11:36.394
And Tyler, you kind of clued me in on this to actually attribute some of the Instagram stuff to you because you were really concerned about the AI training.

00:11:36.394 --> 00:11:40.254
And I think we'd even communicated about because my account has always been private on Instagram.

00:11:40.254 --> 00:11:43.114
It's only it's only for friends and family.

00:11:43.114 --> 00:11:45.274
And I share pictures of my kids.

00:11:45.693 --> 00:11:49.514
But I pretty much it was like, oh, they're still even though it's private.

00:11:49.847 --> 00:11:58.620
They're using pictures of my kids to train their AI algorithms and then our buddy Marky Z coming out and saying some really ugly shit.

00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:00.370
They're feeling empowered to do so.

00:12:00.370 --> 00:12:13.654
And so I was like, okay, that part and parcel with trying to support people who lost everything on Blue Sky and getting enough attention that it was getting, I don't know, I can't wrap my head around it guys.

00:12:13.654 --> 00:12:18.125
Like it's just like attention that was so negative and mean and cruel.

00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:31.149
from all sides of everything, that I was like, okay, I'm talking about friends who have lost their homes and here are strangers being ad hominem towards them and me.

00:12:31.149 --> 00:12:33.599
And I was like, I don't need it.

00:12:33.599 --> 00:12:40.381
And so I'll just hide behind my work and disappear and keep my life small.

00:12:40.482 --> 00:12:46.783
And then yeah, and then you look to the national level and just.

00:12:46.783 --> 00:12:47.595
every five minutes.

00:12:47.595 --> 00:12:55.650
It's funny, I'm not on social media, so I can't doom scroll, but I can certainly, I can still read the news and that alone feels like doom scrolling.

00:12:55.650 --> 00:13:05.610
I mean, I had like a, I had an anxiety dream about the valves opening in Northern California, you know, and the flooding farms and how in the summer it's gonna be dry.

00:13:05.610 --> 00:13:08.001
Anyway, it's a scary time.

00:13:08.001 --> 00:13:15.980
I'm really, the mantra for me is I'm trying to keep my world and my life small and focus on my kids and my wife and.

00:13:15.980 --> 00:13:19.880
my work and do what I can where I can where it makes sense.

00:13:19.984 --> 00:13:20.335
Yeah.

00:13:20.335 --> 00:13:23.373
But boy, what a yes.

00:13:23.751 --> 00:13:40.600
It definitely feels like we're at point where, like, at least I feel like there's a lot of people who sort of becoming very, like, painfully cognizant of how our online lives are not providing what we need from them.

00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:43.309
Yes, it just feels like a kind of illusory.

00:13:43.309 --> 00:13:49.777
And it's funny, I worked in this before I was a screenwriter and I worked in early social media marketing stuff.

00:13:49.777 --> 00:13:51.677
And this was the earliest days of Facebook.

00:13:51.677 --> 00:13:54.059
And but I was off of that.

00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:58.263
I mean, I have more than 10 years ago because I could see the writing on the wall.

00:13:58.263 --> 00:14:02.885
And you just kind of retreat, retreat, retreat, because it's I don't know.

00:14:02.885 --> 00:14:04.547
It doesn't it doesn't give you.

00:14:04.547 --> 00:14:05.346
You're right.

00:14:05.346 --> 00:14:09.409
I actually I had jury duty in Pasadena.

00:14:09.663 --> 00:14:21.707
last week and I ended up on a trial and, it was a, not a fun experience, but I was actually, I was actually really heartened by the people that were there.

00:14:21.707 --> 00:14:31.269
It was in a kind of beautiful cross-section of people from Pasadena and the LA area, old, young, all races, creeds, colors.

00:14:31.269 --> 00:14:34.530
And the attorneys were really impressive and human.

00:14:34.530 --> 00:14:36.282
The judge was very impressive and human.

00:14:36.282 --> 00:14:47.745
There was, it was a criminal case and as a man's You know, you're dealing with a person's future, it it was hard and you saw the flaws in the system and how tragic they can be.

00:14:47.745 --> 00:15:02.057
And then also I was, it gave me, it was the, it was a thing that I wasn't expecting to restore my faith in humanity, but I really feel like those jurors and the people in that courtroom were really decent, upstanding, thoughtful, insightful people all in their own way.

00:15:02.057 --> 00:15:12.571
You know, and they were delivery drivers and forensic psychologists and radiologists and working at grocery stores and this is their home and it was on fire.

00:15:13.932 --> 00:15:18.446
It was actually kind of a complex experience, I'll put it that way.

00:15:18.778 --> 00:15:22.662
But a one that was, again, another dialectic of like, this is awful.

00:15:22.662 --> 00:15:25.745
And then also like, these people are wearing this together.

00:15:25.745 --> 00:15:26.686
I don't know.

00:15:26.796 --> 00:15:27.876
Isn't that interesting, right?

00:15:27.876 --> 00:15:30.149
Like that's kind of, that's sort of what we're missing.

00:15:30.149 --> 00:15:36.105
think, Tyler, you were sort of alluding to this too, is that like when we're around a person, we see the similarities.

00:15:36.105 --> 00:15:37.096
We look for that connection.

00:15:37.096 --> 00:15:44.683
We understand that we're all more similar than different, but it seems like as soon as we're either behind a screen or in a group of people, that's when folks start to lose their minds.

00:15:44.683 --> 00:15:50.655
And I don't know if it was George Carlin that said this, maybe I'm misquoting here, but he's like, I like a person, but I hate people.

00:15:50.655 --> 00:15:52.937
You know, and I think we're starting to get there closer now.

00:15:52.937 --> 00:15:54.929
It seems closer to that point.

00:15:54.929 --> 00:15:59.914
And I, you know, to speak on what you're saying there, Chris, it's like, you know, I got rid of Facebook.

00:15:59.914 --> 00:16:01.336
I got rid of Twitter pretty quickly.

00:16:01.336 --> 00:16:02.256
Both of those were easy.

00:16:02.256 --> 00:16:02.376
X.

00:16:02.376 --> 00:16:03.327
That's no problems.

00:16:03.327 --> 00:16:03.857
Threads.

00:16:03.857 --> 00:16:05.759
Same Instagram.

00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:07.181
It's it's a little tougher, right?

00:16:07.181 --> 00:16:11.418
Like, It's like a photo album of your life, right?

00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:24.365
But then I started to realize that I'm pretty sure whatever Tyler was seeing or my friends and family were seeing, because Tyler and I were connected, like the algorithm isn't serving you my kid's trip to Death Valley.

00:16:24.365 --> 00:16:26.547
It's serving you some rando.

00:16:28.028 --> 00:16:29.729
And I wasn't seeing my wife post.

00:16:29.729 --> 00:16:30.798
He wasn't seeing my own post.

00:16:30.798 --> 00:16:31.840
We're posting the kids.

00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:32.494
And it's like.

00:16:32.494 --> 00:16:34.173
Well, shit, I'm just going to take these pictures of the kids.

00:16:34.173 --> 00:16:42.134
I'm going send them to you and then our parents and Tyler, I will give you I'm going to mail you a thumb drive of the last two months of pictures of my children.

00:16:42.134 --> 00:16:43.254
It's just 400.

00:16:45.134 --> 00:16:46.238
Secret house.

00:16:47.758 --> 00:16:49.518
All right, well, think we've got it.

00:16:49.518 --> 00:16:50.018
Well, Tyler, don't know.

00:16:50.018 --> 00:16:50.337
I'm sorry.

00:16:50.337 --> 00:16:52.158
Did you want to add something?

00:16:52.302 --> 00:16:54.182
Yeah, you know, I guess I was just wanting to add a little bit.

00:16:54.182 --> 00:17:03.861
Like I said, I've been trying to get more and more involved in my local politics and I live in a rural Oregon and there's not like, you know, it's very easy to actually be involved in that.

00:17:03.861 --> 00:17:14.922
And I'm always sort of shocked and heartened by every time I go to, you know, a city hall meeting or a county meeting or anything, it's like, it feels like amateur hour.

00:17:14.922 --> 00:17:21.021
And you really get the feeling that it's like, these are your neighbors trying to do the best that they can.

00:17:21.021 --> 00:17:27.929
And they're clearly a few bad actors around who are so internet brained with their conspiracy theories that they cause a lot of problems.

00:17:27.929 --> 00:17:33.075
But there's also just tons of normal people who are trying to help their neighbors get through the day.

00:17:33.075 --> 00:17:39.213
And it's good to be able to be there and cheerlead the folks that are doing good.

00:17:39.213 --> 00:17:45.473
The envy is it's crazy over here guys, because I'm in Indiana and we are about as red as it gets and I hate it.

00:17:45.473 --> 00:17:55.074
I literally moved from Missouri to Indiana and talk about, know, if you go to back to 2016 and then this last year, talk about the two states that were the first ones to confirm red.

00:17:55.074 --> 00:18:00.273
Oh, it just it pains me and I cannot wait to eventually leave this place.

00:18:00.273 --> 00:18:02.374
But as you guys were saying, this is where family is.

00:18:02.374 --> 00:18:02.814
This is home.

00:18:02.814 --> 00:18:03.662
I'm from here.

00:18:03.662 --> 00:18:08.241
Yeah, there's lots of people you love there and there are lots of great people there in both those places.

00:18:08.241 --> 00:18:08.342
Yeah.

00:18:08.342 --> 00:18:13.682
I mean, have a family in Missouri and I had, you know, like, I have a lot of family in Illinois, which is blue, right?

00:18:13.682 --> 00:18:18.041
But it's it's it was like southern Illinois right on the court.

00:18:18.041 --> 00:18:19.301
It doesn't matter.

00:18:19.301 --> 00:18:19.481
Right.

00:18:19.481 --> 00:18:22.402
Like I my neighbors in Claremont, you know, it's a college town.

00:18:22.402 --> 00:18:27.602
So you you'd have really ardent academic blue near the colleges.

00:18:27.602 --> 00:18:35.885
And then as soon as you go out, it's it's firefighters who voted the other way, you know, but but they're also then up on Mount Baldy fighting those fires.

00:18:35.885 --> 00:18:39.152
And then it's such a weird time, guys.

00:18:39.286 --> 00:18:39.767
Yeah.

00:18:39.767 --> 00:18:40.186
Yeah.

00:18:40.186 --> 00:18:44.901
No, it's very, very difficult to sort of navigate our current time.

00:18:44.901 --> 00:18:45.882
Yeah.

00:18:45.902 --> 00:19:00.342
Well, I'm going to try to sort of dig ourselves out of here because as much as I honestly for the next 50 minutes, I would absolutely love to just sort of pick your guys's brains on what 2025 is and sort of, you know, how to navigate it.

00:19:00.342 --> 00:19:02.942
And like maybe we could brainstorm on this whole thing.

00:19:02.971 --> 00:19:05.711
That feels like a dark wilderness trek.

00:19:05.711 --> 00:19:15.577
Yeah, yeah Well, but I think our time honestly could be better well spent here on the show talking about your guys' new series, which is out of Alcatraz through only press.

00:19:16.357 --> 00:19:20.117
listeners should be expecting that at their local comic book shop on March 19th.

00:19:20.117 --> 00:19:23.317
I'm going to give a brief synopsis just for the layman.

00:19:23.557 --> 00:19:28.498
1962 in June, Frank Morris and Clarence Aglin, sorry, Aglin, is that correct?

00:19:28.498 --> 00:19:29.198
Anglin.

00:19:29.198 --> 00:19:30.278
Anglin, thank you.

00:19:30.278 --> 00:19:35.438
Clarence Anglin have escaped Alcatraz and survived the treacherous waters of the San Francisco Bay.

00:19:35.438 --> 00:19:50.157
Now on the run, they're guided by a mysterious handler with secrets of her own, with a relentless federal manhunt closing in, and danger at every turn, they'll soon learn that life on the run might not be even worse than Alcatraz itself.

00:19:50.178 --> 00:19:52.897
So Chris, I'd love to start with you here.

00:19:52.897 --> 00:20:09.096
I've heard you talk about sort of your fascination with 1962, the Alcatraz event in 1962, and the mystery surrounding that escape, and how the government's or sorry, how the government sort of attempted to cover up these events and then actually backfired.

00:20:09.096 --> 00:20:11.318
And people started to get more curious.

00:20:11.318 --> 00:20:13.951
for you, when did this fascination begin?

00:20:13.951 --> 00:20:21.160
And are there specific moments from history that you knew you wanted to include in this interpretation of the story?

00:20:21.355 --> 00:20:28.721
Well, so, I would say that it's a in terms of the government case, like it's a little there's a little bit more nuance to it.

00:20:28.721 --> 00:20:30.903
And it's it's I'll go.

00:20:30.903 --> 00:20:32.325
But I'll reel it all the way back to.

00:20:32.325 --> 00:20:35.596
So you read She Could Fly, my first comic, which.

00:20:36.959 --> 00:20:39.519
Yes, I love that man.

00:20:39.881 --> 00:20:47.948
But it's about the main character has a pretty profound OCD type of OCD that I actually have as well.

00:20:47.948 --> 00:20:50.829
OCD, particularly that type of OCD.

00:20:51.019 --> 00:20:55.330
And OCD kind of geared brain craves certainty.

00:20:55.330 --> 00:21:07.375
And so my brain, from a young age, I would find myself ruminating on things in history where there was no certainty in terms of what happened.

00:21:07.375 --> 00:21:08.855
And that led me down.

00:21:08.855 --> 00:21:09.575
from Dallas.

00:21:09.575 --> 00:21:10.332
I grew up in Dallas.

00:21:10.332 --> 00:21:12.625
was born in Chicago, but I grew up in Dallas.

00:21:12.625 --> 00:21:14.972
So JFK assassination was a big thing.

00:21:14.972 --> 00:21:16.537
And it just kind of a rabbit hole.

00:21:16.537 --> 00:21:19.288
And I've actually done a comic series about that as well.

00:21:19.288 --> 00:21:22.250
Kate, what's similar between that and Alcatraz where there's also no answers, right?

00:21:22.250 --> 00:21:24.309
Which is they were never found.

00:21:24.309 --> 00:21:27.726
The government story is they drowned all three of them, right?

00:21:27.726 --> 00:21:29.946
It's the Anglin brothers and Frank.

00:21:30.327 --> 00:21:32.319
There was a fourth Alan West who didn't get off.

00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:33.304
He couldn't get out of his cell.

00:21:33.304 --> 00:21:37.094
He glued his thing too tight, his grate too tight.

00:21:37.115 --> 00:21:38.355
So he couldn't get out of there.

00:21:38.355 --> 00:21:45.321
But that report that they drowned is based on hearsay from, believe a Chinese freighter coming into the bay who said they saw a body.

00:21:45.769 --> 00:21:49.702
on their way in and they found John Englund's wallet.

00:21:49.702 --> 00:21:52.515
But the wallet, the wallet was not recovered.

00:21:52.515 --> 00:21:55.336
They never verified the story with the freighter.

00:21:55.336 --> 00:21:57.117
They never recovered that body.

00:21:57.117 --> 00:21:58.348
So they were like, they drowned.

00:21:58.348 --> 00:22:00.941
it's literally, I just told it, I just talked about jury duty.

00:22:00.941 --> 00:22:01.691
That's hearsay.

00:22:01.691 --> 00:22:02.961
It's not even evidence, right?

00:22:02.961 --> 00:22:11.647
It's like, well, and so, you that's, you're in 62, you're still with like Hoover's FBI, right?

00:22:11.647 --> 00:22:14.509
You know, there's a shadow looming large over that.

00:22:14.509 --> 00:22:18.869
And that place, Alcatraz was built to be escape proof.

00:22:18.869 --> 00:22:20.069
That was the federal story.

00:22:20.069 --> 00:22:21.029
It's a federal prison, right?

00:22:21.029 --> 00:22:21.670
It's not a state prison.

00:22:21.670 --> 00:22:25.109
So it's a federal prison and it's meant to be state of the art and escape proof.

00:22:25.109 --> 00:22:34.470
Most of the people who ended up at Alcatraz, other than a couple of the big ticket folks like Capone and places like that, they were transferred there.

00:22:34.470 --> 00:22:36.170
They weren't sentenced to Alcatraz.

00:22:36.170 --> 00:22:41.569
They were transferred to Alcatraz because they'd already escaped from other facilities, right?

00:22:41.569 --> 00:22:43.917
And Frank Morris had already escaped from prison.

00:22:43.917 --> 00:22:46.278
The Anglin brothers had already escaped from prison.

00:22:46.278 --> 00:22:50.718
And so the idea was Alcatraz was a place you could not escape from because geographically that's the thing.

00:22:50.718 --> 00:22:54.678
And then lo and behold, three guys get off and they can't find them.

00:22:54.678 --> 00:22:57.637
And so the government is hard pressed to go, we don't know.

00:22:57.637 --> 00:23:02.458
And then California freaks out and there are fugitives on the loose and all of this.

00:23:02.458 --> 00:23:05.377
They had to say, no, this is our facility.

00:23:05.557 --> 00:23:07.617
And it's impervious.

00:23:07.617 --> 00:23:07.718
Right.

00:23:07.718 --> 00:23:08.897
You can't get off of it.

00:23:08.897 --> 00:23:11.637
And, you know, that story, actually, it didn't work.

00:23:11.637 --> 00:23:15.576
It didn't quite work because I think It closed the following year, right?

00:23:15.576 --> 00:23:23.982
So I don't think it was directly due to the escape or attempted escape or whatever actually happened, but they just couldn't keep that place running.

00:23:23.982 --> 00:23:36.313
It was too expensive and that narrative, it was just hard to sell at a certain point when you have three missing guys that you never know what happened to them, even though they say they drowned.

00:23:37.102 --> 00:23:42.362
You know, it's interesting is I didn't know a lot about sort of this moment in history.

00:23:42.362 --> 00:23:45.501
You know, I'm obviously somewhat familiar just based on culture and whatnot.

00:23:45.501 --> 00:23:51.382
But what was really refreshing about reading this first issue about out of Alcatraz is that, you know, I didn't know the names.

00:23:51.382 --> 00:23:57.422
I wasn't familiar with sort of the happenings or even the legends of what might have happened to these three guys.

00:23:57.541 --> 00:23:59.622
And again, I just found that so refreshing.

00:23:59.622 --> 00:24:05.612
And I think without spoiling anything, you know, this first issue, it feels so grounded and based on reality.

00:24:05.612 --> 00:24:07.824
And Tyler, I'd love to kind of go to you here.

00:24:07.824 --> 00:24:20.192
What I think you do so well, and part of the reason why I'm such a huge fan of your work is that your style sort of lends itself to otherworldly mythology, magic, horror, but it's like sort of, it's all grounded in reality.

00:24:20.192 --> 00:24:22.714
Think of Lonesome Hunters, think of Harrow County.

00:24:22.714 --> 00:24:25.237
All these are like, I feel like it expresses that so well.

00:24:25.237 --> 00:24:32.375
So what was it about this story that enticed you to jump on board and how familiar were you to these mysteries beforehand?

00:24:32.375 --> 00:24:45.099
Well, think the two things that really attracted me to this initially when Chris and Bess brought me the story pitch was that I loved that it was such a great setting.

00:24:45.099 --> 00:24:48.941
Just the time and place was just so exciting.

00:24:48.941 --> 00:24:51.271
Like I always I really like period pieces.

00:24:51.271 --> 00:24:56.492
My very first comic was Petrograd, which was set in Russia during the revolution or just before the revolution.

00:24:56.732 --> 00:24:59.374
And Harrow County was set in the 30s.

00:24:59.374 --> 00:25:02.634
Witchfinder was set in Victorian England.

00:25:02.634 --> 00:25:04.314
It's like all these like really strong settings.

00:25:04.314 --> 00:25:11.794
And I felt like Alcatraz had that too, where it was just the really, really evocative time and place.

00:25:12.354 --> 00:25:20.364
And the other thing was just like the structure of the story about everyone trying to get free really resonated with me.

00:25:20.364 --> 00:25:21.125
Yeah.

00:25:21.125 --> 00:25:27.132
Chris, I think I heard somewhere in another conversation that this was originally a series pitch, right?

00:25:27.132 --> 00:25:28.266
Is that correct?

00:25:28.266 --> 00:25:29.896
This is the only time I've ever done this.

00:25:29.896 --> 00:25:39.060
But yeah, I actually in 2018, 2019, I wrote this as a pilot for a limited series, an original limited series.

00:25:39.060 --> 00:25:46.365
And I took it out to a couple of places, but I really just wrote it for me because I was coming off of something that would have been the follow up to Halt and Catch Fire.

00:25:46.365 --> 00:25:48.755
And it almost got off the ground and then didn't.

00:25:48.755 --> 00:25:51.395
And so there was a little bit of dismay.

00:25:51.576 --> 00:25:54.047
And can I still do this?

00:25:54.047 --> 00:25:55.577
And do I still like this?

00:25:55.789 --> 00:25:57.529
doing this, meaning just screenwriting.

00:25:57.529 --> 00:26:03.589
And I wrote this pilot based on something I very much was obsessed with for a long time.

00:26:03.589 --> 00:26:08.109
And so, yeah, it kind of sat there on my hard drive for years.

00:26:08.109 --> 00:26:19.509
And then when I met with Oni at Comic-Con in 2022, I just started talking about it with Bess and Sierra and Hunter, and they were really interested.

00:26:19.509 --> 00:26:24.238
it's a lot to ask someone, especially in comics, to read.

00:26:24.238 --> 00:26:26.117
a 60 page pilot.

00:26:26.518 --> 00:26:28.397
But it was like, I don't know.

00:26:28.397 --> 00:26:29.218
they did.

00:26:29.357 --> 00:26:34.498
And they, Bess was really insightful and they kind of pulled it apart and really saw what I was trying to do there.

00:26:34.498 --> 00:26:37.258
And then Bess immediately thought of Tyler.

00:26:37.258 --> 00:26:41.298
And we asked Tyler to read a 60 page screenplay.

00:26:41.397 --> 00:26:42.557
And he did.

00:26:42.678 --> 00:26:43.917
And he liked it.

00:26:43.917 --> 00:26:47.837
But yeah, it's the only time I've kind of adapted myself in that direction.

00:26:47.837 --> 00:26:51.518
Because I usually like to try to do comics for their own sake.

00:26:51.980 --> 00:26:58.094
I went down the road a little bit with an adaptation of She Could Fly, but it was very different than this process.

00:26:58.653 --> 00:27:01.455
yeah, it was a weird one.

00:27:01.455 --> 00:27:06.159
in looking at what I think, especially with what Tyler's done, don't know.

00:27:06.230 --> 00:27:17.227
I feel like if we just photograph this and again, not to that sounds like I'm degrading amazing directors of photography out there, but just to phone it, you set up Tyler's on a high visual bar for this.

00:27:17.227 --> 00:27:18.790
As he does with most stories.

00:27:18.790 --> 00:27:20.445
We're gonna brag on Tyler really quick.

00:27:20.445 --> 00:27:21.878
Why is he looking at us?

00:27:22.698 --> 00:27:49.691
I think that I've even shared this with a couple of producers because you know that's whatever the comic book companies want like to do and and again like we would both be excited but everyone the people I've responded to the work with some pretty great people have gone wow I don't we have to we would have to figure out how to this art is phenomenal and we want to we have to figure out how to to meet that standard that's been said to me a couple times so it's I'm glad it's a book Isn't that interesting though?

00:27:49.691 --> 00:28:00.396
feel like that's sort of an extremely difficult, if not completely impossible venture to faithfully adapt a comic and expect to get the tone more than 80 % there.

00:28:00.396 --> 00:28:07.261
Like, I don't know why my brain went here, but I know they're doing the Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow story that's based off Tom King and Belkis Evilly.

00:28:07.261 --> 00:28:12.994
How in the hell do you plan on trying to like come anywhere close to Belkis and her work in that book?

00:28:12.994 --> 00:28:14.711
Like that's just one example.

00:28:14.711 --> 00:28:26.378
The only thing I feel like that's respectful to do to both versions of a project when you do something like that is to just really stake a unique claim in that medium the way you have in the previous, right?

00:28:26.378 --> 00:28:28.971
And so I feel like I hope they do that, right?

00:28:28.971 --> 00:28:32.192
And I, you know, there's some pretty great people there.

00:28:32.192 --> 00:28:34.794
But yeah, you look at what Bill gets to.

00:28:35.651 --> 00:28:37.534
How you even approach that?

00:28:37.534 --> 00:28:39.647
We're a little bit in the same vein.

00:28:40.109 --> 00:28:40.970
Yeah.

00:28:41.741 --> 00:28:53.801
It's funny though, because I feel like my approach to Alcatraz in particular is probably the thing that is most influenced by movies and TV than anything else I've ever worked on.

00:28:53.801 --> 00:29:06.882
I really am trying to frame moments and characters in ways that are evocative of the coolest movies of the 60s and 70s and stuff.

00:29:07.086 --> 00:29:08.029
Yeah, that's true.

00:29:08.029 --> 00:29:09.314
I'm getting really strong.

00:29:09.314 --> 00:29:10.719
No country for old men vibes.

00:29:10.719 --> 00:29:13.826
Is that am I accurate in that or is that feel good?

00:29:13.826 --> 00:29:37.902
I was thinking a little bit today that like one of the things I keep thinking about is actually Wild at Heart, which doesn't I don't think really comes across in the book, but like just how some of those settings, especially some of the desert settings like the where Isabella Rossellini's her little like shack out in the desert is just like like that has such a great vibe.

00:29:37.902 --> 00:29:42.541
You mentioned, Tyler, you mentioned HUD as a kind of character inspiration for one of the characters.

00:29:42.541 --> 00:29:58.422
And I was thinking about that made me think about like Giant, the James Dean movie and how there's something like there's it's like I feel like anything we do, you'd have to get those like David Lean lenses on it and really open it up.

00:29:58.422 --> 00:29:58.981
You know what I mean?

00:29:58.981 --> 00:30:04.461
And then get really and then kind of use the same technique to get into these people's faces.

00:30:04.541 --> 00:30:04.902
I don't know.

00:30:04.902 --> 00:30:06.041
That could be cool.

00:30:06.041 --> 00:30:07.190
But I don't know.

00:30:07.190 --> 00:30:20.637
What I think this is probably a good transition also to talk kind of a little bit more broadly about only press like what is in the water over only currently they they're putting out these these news, you know, posts about a series of Patrick Horvath.

00:30:20.637 --> 00:30:23.347
There's a obviously they've been doing a lot of the easy stuff.

00:30:23.347 --> 00:30:25.279
This is a good example.

00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:36.223
You know, like they have been really hitting on the head in terms of like new interesting fresh ideas over there, which is interesting because for a long time and I mean this respectfully, if anybody's listening best.

00:30:36.223 --> 00:30:38.575
anybody that's listening to the show from Oni.

00:30:38.715 --> 00:30:45.201
I love the publisher, but it's always sort of just been like the home to Scott Pilgrim and then like some fun books here and there, right?

00:30:45.201 --> 00:30:49.648
But like, it feels like they're really making a point to have an identity going into 2025.

00:30:49.648 --> 00:30:51.666
And I find that really refreshing.

00:30:51.666 --> 00:31:01.054
And I'm also on another, like sort of selfishly, cause I'm here with you guys right now out of Alcatraz, what a way to sort of open up the year too with it, right?

00:31:01.301 --> 00:31:02.742
I hope so, yeah.

00:31:02.742 --> 00:31:08.487
In the creator space, the creator-owned space, there's no better place to be right now than Oni.

00:31:08.487 --> 00:31:23.798
The bench of talent on the editorial side and even the marketing side and the way that they're carefully shepherding this book out into the world and their plans and strategies.

00:31:23.877 --> 00:31:27.740
From Hunter on down and Sierra and Bess, it's just...

00:31:27.740 --> 00:31:29.321
They just brought over...

00:31:29.544 --> 00:31:30.433
I can't say that yet.

00:31:30.433 --> 00:31:31.836
don't know if it's good enough.

00:31:31.916 --> 00:31:34.059
I'm saying I almost got in trouble.

00:31:34.059 --> 00:31:36.824
They brought over another editor that's one of I've worked with.

00:31:36.824 --> 00:31:41.450
That's one of my personally one of my favorite editors that just has a really great head for story.

00:31:41.450 --> 00:31:43.323
Best is incredible as an editor.

00:31:43.323 --> 00:31:44.805
Just just sees the whole picture.

00:31:44.805 --> 00:31:46.636
It's a it's a crack team.

00:31:46.636 --> 00:31:47.788
Crack team.

00:31:47.942 --> 00:31:54.088
Yeah, and they really feel like they're doing a great job considering just like the complete meltdown of social media.

00:31:54.088 --> 00:32:10.109
Like it really feels like they're sort of like navigating it in a way where they they really understand that social media is like not what it was, you know, four or five years ago, which a lot of which a lot of publishers I don't think are quite are quite there yet, you know.

00:32:10.109 --> 00:32:10.549
Agreed.

00:32:10.549 --> 00:32:10.750
Yeah.

00:32:10.750 --> 00:32:12.852
They're not quite privy to how to approach that.

00:32:12.852 --> 00:32:14.394
They're still posting on Facebook, right?

00:32:14.394 --> 00:32:15.515
It's like, what are you doing?

00:32:15.515 --> 00:32:17.516
Like my mom is looking at memes on there right now.

00:32:17.516 --> 00:32:19.444
There's no need to promote your new book.

00:32:19.444 --> 00:32:21.864
mom's looking at Shrimp Jesus and...

00:32:21.945 --> 00:32:25.368
An AI generated good morning posts.

00:32:25.607 --> 00:32:37.778
But I will say that to get back a little bit out of Alcatraz, the tagline for the book, which I found really interesting, it resonated with me for a quick moment was freedom is just another prison.

00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:42.804
Speaking of Oni and the marketing of the book, again, that really stuck with me.

00:32:42.804 --> 00:32:50.605
The idea of freedom versus captivity in this first issue and does anyone really escape without spoiling anything?

00:32:50.605 --> 00:32:54.605
It remains sort of a major theme throughout this 48 page giant issue.

00:32:54.605 --> 00:33:00.445
So here's a super loaded, very easy question to ask you guys here.

00:33:00.445 --> 00:33:03.726
Do you plan on tackling that question of what does freedom mean?

00:33:03.726 --> 00:33:08.046
Or in the context of the story, are you just kind of more interested in asking the question?

00:33:08.046 --> 00:33:09.837
And Tyler, I'll start with you here.

00:33:09.837 --> 00:33:11.398
You should really start with Chris.

00:33:14.157 --> 00:33:15.498
Oh boy.

00:33:16.397 --> 00:33:19.097
No, we do.

00:33:19.097 --> 00:33:29.218
mean, think freedom, the theme of freedom is really important throughout the book and you brought up the time period and events.

00:33:29.218 --> 00:33:34.718
We don't touch anything else as a historical watershed other than the escape.

00:33:34.718 --> 00:33:39.478
But what's interesting about 62 is in a year the president will be assassinated.

00:33:39.478 --> 00:33:43.733
Civil rights is already starting to kind of its head, right, and become...

00:33:43.733 --> 00:34:00.368
at the fore of American consciousness, Vietnam is about to kick off, you know, and then you're headed into, I mean, at the same time, culturally, you're looking at the 1962 California is very different from 1969 California, especially in the San Francisco area, right?

00:34:00.368 --> 00:34:06.744
Like, and we have two closeted characters in this book that are living in the 1962 California, right?

00:34:06.744 --> 00:34:18.572
Which is still a San Francisco built by, the 1849ers and the gold rush and saloons and shipping and a kind of Western vibe to it, right?

00:34:18.572 --> 00:34:26.766
And then you have the farmlands throughout the central part of California that were from Steinbeck on, you know, are still there.

00:34:27.275 --> 00:34:29.333
We haven't gotten full Chinatown yet.

00:34:29.518 --> 00:34:34.838
No, the Owens River Valley still has this water or no, no, it lost this water like years ago.

00:34:34.838 --> 00:34:36.398
No, that's not that's not right, actually.

00:34:36.398 --> 00:34:39.157
Yeah, because Chinatown is like twenty nine years.

00:34:39.157 --> 00:34:40.237
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah.

00:34:40.237 --> 00:34:41.797
Owens River Valley has already been.

00:34:41.797 --> 00:34:42.217
Yeah.

00:34:42.217 --> 00:34:45.338
Mulholland's already destroyed the southern part of the state.

00:34:45.338 --> 00:34:52.938
But yeah, that idea of like and also California is this place where like you just keep going until you stop and there's nowhere else to go.

00:34:52.938 --> 00:34:55.237
I think it really is this.

00:34:55.349 --> 00:35:00.393
It's a hinge point in the American idea, right, to tie it back to the beginning of our conversation.

00:35:00.393 --> 00:35:05.666
And this idea of freedom in America is a very potent one.

00:35:05.666 --> 00:35:28.193
It's at the fore of a lot of things in trite ways and then also in profound ways and in complex and subversive ways, right, because of the country's history when it comes to slavery and the things that it was built on and these other ideas that, and the displacement of indigenous people, all of these things that I said dialectic at the beginning, I'm just gonna keep on moving back to that world.

00:35:28.193 --> 00:35:31.233
Like these kind of opposing truths that live side by side, right?

00:35:31.233 --> 00:35:37.474
Like, and our prison system is another kind of example of this where it's like, and it's rehabilitative qualities.

00:35:37.474 --> 00:35:53.753
So it's like, so we have this kind of America on the cusp in 62, and it's about to go, it's about to do a massive introspection that's violent and radical and tumultuous that lasts until Reagan, right?

00:35:54.251 --> 00:35:57.219
When and then it goes, reel it back in, everybody.

00:35:57.219 --> 00:35:57.971
Never mind.

00:35:57.971 --> 00:35:58.811
Right.

00:35:59.123 --> 00:36:00.385
And the Penjo and the Swoogles.

00:36:00.385 --> 00:36:01.898
plan right now, actually.

00:36:01.898 --> 00:36:02.338
Exactly.

00:36:02.338 --> 00:36:03.518
you go.

00:36:03.518 --> 00:36:06.231
Reagan says, Reagan says, make America great again.

00:36:06.231 --> 00:36:10.103
says city on a hill, which is a puritanical idea.

00:36:10.523 --> 00:36:13.706
And but we're we're we're in the postwar.

00:36:13.706 --> 00:36:18.688
We won setting, but that's it's kind of that's kind of starting to fall apart.

00:36:18.730 --> 00:36:31.628
And so you have these characters that are all representative of of American people who are trying to be free, whether they're prisoners or they're African-American or they're homosexual.

00:36:32.081 --> 00:36:33.313
Or they're just trying to get by.

00:36:33.313 --> 00:36:34.963
trying to survive, right?

00:36:35.704 --> 00:36:44.987
And so you see people who are divided in a place that's divided, even though it is also a place where people, all they have is each other, right?

00:36:44.987 --> 00:36:47.597
And California is this paradise.

00:36:47.597 --> 00:36:52.389
I do believe that it has some of these qualities and promise and wonder.

00:36:52.389 --> 00:36:56.161
And yet it's built on the backs of a lot of hard things.

00:36:56.161 --> 00:36:59.452
I mentioned Mulholland and that's just one thing.

00:36:59.733 --> 00:37:01.034
There's a lot.

00:37:02.463 --> 00:37:03.632
It's all at play in there.

00:37:03.632 --> 00:37:06.594
And then you get into more universal ideas, right?

00:37:06.594 --> 00:37:11.429
It's not, listen, the book is not a polemic against anything.

00:37:11.429 --> 00:37:12.449
I really don't think that.

00:37:12.449 --> 00:37:23.356
think someone in a different country could pick this up and it would resonate with them because it also deals with like, can you ever be free of yourself and your own baggage, right?

00:37:23.356 --> 00:37:26.909
There's a famous saying that wherever you go, you take yourself with you.

00:37:26.909 --> 00:37:27.519
You know what I mean?

00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:30.722
Like, so Frank Morris can't escape himself.

00:37:30.722 --> 00:37:31.282
You know what I mean?

00:37:31.282 --> 00:37:33.115
Like the Anglins can't do that either.

00:37:33.115 --> 00:37:36.592
Like none of the characters can, you know, just like we can't.

00:37:36.592 --> 00:37:43.242
So there's an acceptance that has to come with some of this stuff and this idea of what liberation can mean in different ways.

00:37:43.242 --> 00:37:45.376
anyway, that's my long winded answer.

00:37:46.445 --> 00:38:00.385
I think one of the things that manifests in the characters in different ways, but one of the things about it that I think the story explores is that freedom is responsibility in a lot of ways.

00:38:00.385 --> 00:38:11.532
It's like once you're free, you have a responsibility to either protect that freedom or take responsibility for your own actions in ways that a lot of the characters are struggling with.

00:38:11.719 --> 00:38:21.050
It's not one of those stories where it's like it's going to get to the end and like some character will say to the other character, you know, freedom is what's in your heart or anything like that.

00:38:21.050 --> 00:38:21.719
You know what I mean?

00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:27.608
But like hopefully the reader will come away with some actually understanding of what they want to think about freedom.

00:38:27.608 --> 00:38:34.414
Tyler, in the lettering pass on the fifth issue though, I actually, was going to change one of the lines to that though, just to.

00:38:34.414 --> 00:38:35.315
Yeah.

00:38:35.726 --> 00:38:38.608
We all have freedom and freedom is half the battle.

00:38:39.509 --> 00:38:52.721
No, and I think a really great representation of what you guys are sort of speaking on here and sort of sort of blurred line of freedom is Tyler, you have an incredible page in this book and this first issue where you've got Alan being interrogated.

00:38:52.721 --> 00:38:53.864
Where are these two guys at?

00:38:53.864 --> 00:38:54.902
Where are these two guys at?

00:38:54.902 --> 00:39:01.688
And you have you have our two titular main characters and a Clementine field enjoying a couple fruit people, a couple pieces of fruit.

00:39:01.688 --> 00:39:03.277
Like, come on that like.

00:39:03.277 --> 00:39:09.038
I know again, as we just spoke about it, sort of the line between freedom and captivity, where is it?

00:39:09.038 --> 00:39:10.157
What does it mean to be free?

00:39:10.157 --> 00:39:10.838
All that.

00:39:10.838 --> 00:39:17.077
think in that moment, and Chris, you sort of talked about this a little bit at the beginning of our conversation about like, you got to have small moments, right?

00:39:17.077 --> 00:39:22.518
Like we need to stop thinking so broadly when you start living and thinking about like small achievements, small moments.

00:39:22.518 --> 00:39:26.818
This was that, this is that small moment where they got to sort of embellish in that a little bit.

00:39:26.818 --> 00:39:27.179
You're right.

00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:39.434
I think that's a good way, with all the grandiosity I just spewed at you, think that it's a small story about different groups, at least pockets of people trying to get by.

00:39:39.434 --> 00:39:46.985
And we tried to build in a lot of those little small moments.

00:39:46.985 --> 00:39:51.476
It's funny to bring this up, because Tyler, just remembered that you hate this guy.

00:39:51.476 --> 00:39:54.208
And sorry, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but Jack Kerouac.

00:39:54.538 --> 00:40:07.067
But here's my read on Kerouac, which is that like they're always they're either when they're in the middle of a moment that is this kind of electric moment, they're thinking about something they should have done 40 miles back.

00:40:07.067 --> 00:40:07.887
Right.

00:40:07.887 --> 00:40:10.920
Or the woman they should be with or this or where's what?

00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:12.271
Why did my dad leave?

00:40:12.271 --> 00:40:15.172
Or they're thinking about, man, it's going to be great when we get to Denver.

00:40:15.172 --> 00:40:17.014
And then they get to Denver and it's like, this sucks.

00:40:17.014 --> 00:40:17.894
Right.

00:40:17.894 --> 00:40:30.115
There's no living and they're they're constantly grappling with that, which is like it feels It makes so much sense that Jack Kerouac went into Zen, which is about being present in the now because he was really struggling with that his entire life.

00:40:30.115 --> 00:40:32.668
And like I think our characters are too.

00:40:32.668 --> 00:40:39.472
But there are these little moments like like you talked about the orange or there's the moment where Frank gets to take a private shower.

00:40:39.472 --> 00:40:48.570
And it's just one panel that Tyler did or like Clarence goes into a little drugstore and looks at all the toys and candy.

00:40:48.570 --> 00:40:56.951
You know, like it's little things like that that you go like, You know, it washes over you as it washes over them.

00:40:56.951 --> 00:41:00.163
And then, boom, it's back to, we got to move, we got to do this.

00:41:00.163 --> 00:41:00.773
What about this?

00:41:00.773 --> 00:41:04.905
Or we're going to get screwed over here, and this guy doesn't care, and who am I?

00:41:04.905 --> 00:41:06.626
And all that existential stuff.

00:41:06.626 --> 00:41:09.268
So yeah, it cuts through in those moments.

00:41:09.268 --> 00:41:12.860
And I think we tried to do that a couple of times with the characters through the book.

00:41:13.038 --> 00:41:13.657
think you do.

00:41:13.657 --> 00:41:17.277
And again, I said this to my cohost Aaron, who's not with us tonight.

00:41:17.318 --> 00:41:19.978
I mentioned it sort of offhandedly without really thinking about it.

00:41:19.978 --> 00:41:24.538
And I said, this out of Alcatraz book, this first book, it's my favorite book of 2025.

00:41:24.538 --> 00:41:26.637
And he goes, it's January.

00:41:26.637 --> 00:41:27.878
What you talking about?

00:41:27.949 --> 00:41:30.449
was like, I mean, yes, you're right.

00:41:30.481 --> 00:41:31.003
Sure.

00:41:31.003 --> 00:41:31.822
Good point.

00:41:31.822 --> 00:41:36.157
But there's something important about this book that I think folks are really going to grab onto.

00:41:36.157 --> 00:41:38.228
And I do want to talk about it more.

00:41:38.228 --> 00:41:42.893
And I'd love to get you guys back on when the trade is eventually out a couple of months down the road.

00:41:42.893 --> 00:41:46.436
But selfishly, I don't want to spoil anything for everybody.

00:41:46.436 --> 00:41:50.179
Hopefully that sort of teases everything up for you guys for out of Alcatraz.

00:41:50.179 --> 00:41:52.971
But selfishly, I have a couple of questions for each of you individually here.

00:41:52.971 --> 00:41:56.603
And I want to start here with Tyler.

00:41:56.603 --> 00:42:01.306
Now, since our first conversation here on the podcast last year.

00:42:01.306 --> 00:42:07.170
I have been waving biggest Tyler Crook fan flag proudly on top of the mountaintop.

00:42:07.170 --> 00:42:12.382
I'm sure you get annoyed with my tags on social media constantly, but I just feel like people should know.

00:42:12.382 --> 00:42:18.505
I know Chris probably agrees with me and I feel like you have to answer me this while you're here.

00:42:18.505 --> 00:42:19.295
Right.

00:42:19.295 --> 00:42:22.557
And that is when are we going to get more lonesome hunters?

00:42:23.170 --> 00:42:31.226
Man, I wish I could tell you for sure, it doesn't look like Dark Horse is going to do more Lonesome Hunters Who do I need to talk to?

00:42:31.226 --> 00:42:32.306
Who do need to call?

00:42:32.306 --> 00:42:33.706
Call your local representative.

00:42:33.706 --> 00:42:35.820
Call your local Dockhorse representative.

00:42:35.820 --> 00:42:40.052
Yeah, make sure you email darkhorse at darkhorse.com or something.

00:42:40.052 --> 00:42:41.063
don't know.

00:42:41.063 --> 00:42:45.737
Just tell people, make sure that if you mention it on social media, they do notice it.

00:42:45.896 --> 00:42:49.039
I'm playing with a bunch of different ideas of how to get it going.

00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:56.605
It's not a story that I'm willing to sort of just let die because I do have a couple more story arcs.

00:42:56.605 --> 00:42:59.847
And it's a story that's like really important to me personally.

00:42:59.847 --> 00:43:01.708
So I'm hoping to really get it.

00:43:01.708 --> 00:43:12.362
I'm hoping to start getting at least have a plan together in the next couple of months for how I'm going to get it out and then get it on my schedule in a way that won't kill me.

00:43:12.929 --> 00:43:17.650
I know you were saying it took you like a couple of months per issue, right?

00:43:17.650 --> 00:43:19.873
Like that's, I remembering the timeline?

00:43:19.873 --> 00:43:24.286
You know, when things are normal, I can do an issue in about two months.

00:43:24.286 --> 00:43:27.773
And it seems like it's been much longer lately.

00:43:27.992 --> 00:43:30.184
But that's I feel like that's the beauty of this process.

00:43:30.184 --> 00:43:39.072
And that's, again, just kind of like champion only here, like Bess knew and Sierra knew and Hunter knew, like build in the timelines for these books.

00:43:39.072 --> 00:43:51.251
And and over on the on the license side of things like, by the way, I will say IDW aside and Heather Antos aside, because that feels like what comic books, I thought comic books were when I was a kid in the 90s is working for them.

00:43:51.251 --> 00:43:56.365
But other places, the timelines are.

00:43:56.365 --> 00:44:00.106
Even for me, and I've got it easy because it's like, here's a word document.

00:44:00.106 --> 00:44:03.445
Like, it's ludicrous.

00:44:03.445 --> 00:44:06.706
And I worry about the artists.

00:44:06.706 --> 00:44:08.126
So it's been nice.

00:44:08.126 --> 00:44:16.166
I like to think of Tyler carefully painting in his studio and going, I feel like he's got the time.

00:44:16.226 --> 00:44:16.465
Yeah.

00:44:16.465 --> 00:44:18.905
And watching your comic book cool down and going, yeah.

00:44:18.905 --> 00:44:19.806
You know what I mean?

00:44:19.806 --> 00:44:21.885
It feels like what it's supposed to be.

00:44:21.965 --> 00:44:22.965
I don't know.

00:44:23.302 --> 00:44:48.923
Yeah, I have not I definitely have not well I've definitely felt pressured to keep it moving like I'm one of those people where it's like if I'm not if I'm not making progress on a project my stress level just gets through the roof and like the easiest way to keep myself happy is to have like Like a goal for what I'm gonna get done in a day and then get it done in a day And then I'm just like the happiest dude like on the planet.

00:44:48.923 --> 00:44:56.077
So and so I've been Yeah, I've been making steady progress on this and there have been some other little projects that have come up and stuff.

00:44:56.077 --> 00:44:59.197
like I did some EC comic stuff and.

00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:01.170
Yeah, I did.

00:45:01.170 --> 00:45:03.721
They're both out, in fact.

00:45:04.141 --> 00:45:08.304
I did one where I wrote and drew it about a zombie story.

00:45:08.304 --> 00:45:12.726
I think it's in the EC epitaphs from the Abyss number three.

00:45:12.726 --> 00:45:17.730
And then I did a story with Matthew Rosenberg that I think is in number five.

00:45:18.454 --> 00:45:21.956
I'm going to put that on my mental note right now because I didn't know that that was the thing.

00:45:21.956 --> 00:45:25.858
And then, you know, again, I want to sort of switch gears over to you, Chris, here.

00:45:26.277 --> 00:45:35.182
Whenever I talk about your work to someone, I always I have to mention the Doctor Doom series that you did back in 2019 and 2020 with Salvador Larocca.

00:45:35.182 --> 00:45:48.045
And, you know, not only is it super smart and not only would Victor rather destroy an entire universe than make nice with Reed in this story, but every part of the story just I feel like it just gets doom.

00:45:48.045 --> 00:46:02.469
and gets and understands why he's so compelling and also has, enough, one of my favorite interactions between those two, where I think it's an issue nine where they basically are trying to sideways, halfway complement each other, but not really.

00:46:02.469 --> 00:46:05.170
Like it's a it's one of my favorite two page interaction.

00:46:05.170 --> 00:46:17.557
So, you know, we're about to get a couple of years of some pretty intense doom things, you know, whether it be comics with Ryan North and his one world under doom event here in the summer of twenty twenty five.

00:46:17.557 --> 00:46:22.003
or of course, as many people already know, RDJ coming back to the MCU as the character.

00:46:22.003 --> 00:46:37.862
So another big question for you here, Chris, when you started initially planning out this run here, and since the ending of it with hindsight, what are some things that you believe people should understand about Victor in order to fully grasp that character?

00:46:38.235 --> 00:46:38.786
boy.

00:46:38.786 --> 00:46:41.708
I mean, I really love the character and I grew to love the character.

00:46:41.708 --> 00:46:51.601
it was the first work I did for Marvel is the short story that's in there, A Rose for Victor, which was part of the War of the Realms stuff.

00:46:51.601 --> 00:46:53.092
I went with it.

00:46:53.092 --> 00:46:56.094
favorite, my favorite, I don't have it here, I have it in my office.

00:46:56.094 --> 00:47:04.806
My favorite Doom story is Triumph and Torment, where he and Doctor Strange confront Mephisto and it's like, who's the better sorcerer?

00:47:04.806 --> 00:47:12.467
Then it really leans into the soul of his mother and all of this stuff and the love he has for his people.

00:47:12.467 --> 00:47:19.452
That to me was such a huge important part of the character, which was that he loved his people.

00:47:19.452 --> 00:47:26.958
There's a code there, which is why I think you sometimes see him working with other heroes or doing these things.

00:47:26.958 --> 00:47:32.742
But also capable of incredible unspeakable villainy, right?

00:47:33.103 --> 00:47:35.746
If you press the wrong button on the guy.

00:47:35.909 --> 00:47:46.454
And that issue you mentioned, issue nine is I that issue is my I think that's my favorite issue in the run because the whole thing is Reed.

00:47:46.534 --> 00:47:49.675
He's going to save the world like Doom is going to say no one else can do it.

00:47:49.675 --> 00:47:52.056
And he's going to he's like, I'm going to save the world.

00:47:52.056 --> 00:47:55.637
And it's working and he's going to go save the world and close the black hole near the moon.

00:47:55.637 --> 00:48:00.780
And Reed just calls him to say good luck.

00:48:00.780 --> 00:48:01.679
Yeah.

00:48:01.820 --> 00:48:04.231
And it fucks up his entire life.

00:48:04.231 --> 00:48:07.313
And it's like And you can never if you go back and look at it.

00:48:07.313 --> 00:48:13.085
And I think Salva did it so well because like Reed is a hero and a great character himself.

00:48:13.085 --> 00:48:17.929
But he's a little pissy with Captain America where he's like, he's he's really enjoying this.

00:48:17.929 --> 00:48:19.188
And it's the only time you see Reed.

00:48:19.188 --> 00:48:23.581
And then he just calls him and he salvage his face just flat like expressionless.

00:48:23.581 --> 00:48:25.172
He's like, I just want to say good luck.

00:48:25.172 --> 00:48:27.914
And Victor's like, why did he do that?

00:48:27.914 --> 00:48:30.034
Like, he's like, you know, something's wrong.

00:48:30.034 --> 00:48:32.177
And he just undoes himself.

00:48:32.177 --> 00:48:32.478
Right.

00:48:32.478 --> 00:48:38.092
And like, it's that it's that it's that the character The character is his own worst enemy.

00:48:38.092 --> 00:48:40.110
The only one that can beat Doom is Doom.

00:48:40.110 --> 00:48:41.090
Yes, exactly.

00:48:41.090 --> 00:48:42.530
Like that's that's the whole thing.

00:48:42.530 --> 00:48:49.630
And like even when he gets to the finale, like the other version of him is like, you could have fixed your face like years ago.

00:48:49.630 --> 00:48:51.570
And he's like, you're wearing that mask.

00:48:51.570 --> 00:48:54.289
And he just gets so angry.

00:48:54.289 --> 00:49:02.010
You know, I think that that interaction and then in issue six, the little the little dance that he has, there's like a little road movie.

00:49:02.010 --> 00:49:08.010
I think that issue is called The Road to Latveria, which is like a homage to the Bing Crosby, Bob Hope movies.

00:49:08.010 --> 00:49:09.793
But it's him and Kang.

00:49:09.793 --> 00:49:15.115
and they're working their way across the Southwest and they are kind of friends.

00:49:15.115 --> 00:49:21.536
like, at one point they're on a boat and like, they're just, they actually, they're yelling at each other so much they just start laughing.

00:49:21.677 --> 00:49:27.599
And one, and I can't remember, it's like, one, I Cank says, I'll destroy, I'm gonna, I will destroy you Victor.

00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:30.079
And he says, I'll destroy, it's like, I'll destroy you first.

00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:32.269
But they're really saying, I love you man.

00:49:32.269 --> 00:49:36.961
You know, like, it's like that kind of thing where it's like only two egomaniacs.

00:49:37.954 --> 00:49:43.108
can really see each other because otherwise they're like quite cripplingly lonely, you know?

00:49:43.108 --> 00:49:44.592
And like that's also true with Doom.

00:49:44.592 --> 00:49:45.894
So, I don't know.

00:49:45.894 --> 00:49:47.347
Yeah, he's a great character.

00:49:47.820 --> 00:49:48.789
love that.

00:49:49.490 --> 00:49:50.190
All right.

00:49:50.190 --> 00:50:00.092
I don't want to, I, again, I, I just wanted to get those two quick questions in for you two both, because again, I just love both those works and I have one final question for you guys before I let you go here.

00:50:00.114 --> 00:50:02.514
You know, and it's been an absolute pleasure having you here.

00:50:02.514 --> 00:50:06.842
We always like to end these conversations by asking our creators, what's something you've been enjoying recently?

00:50:06.842 --> 00:50:09.947
And this could be, you know, comic, a movie, a video game.

00:50:09.947 --> 00:50:12.487
I know Tyler, you've worked in video games, podcasting.

00:50:12.487 --> 00:50:14.878
If you want to save the oblivion bar, that'd be cool.

00:50:15.536 --> 00:50:17.418
or just whatever you've been loving.

00:50:17.498 --> 00:50:19.038
Tyler, let's go ahead and start with you.

00:50:19.038 --> 00:50:21.217
What's something you've been really enjoying here recently?

00:50:21.434 --> 00:50:31.072
I have been, my wife and I have been working our way through like all the Star Trek shows and that has just been like such like a comfort for me.

00:50:31.179 --> 00:50:33.291
Everyone tells me the next generation is the one I should watch.

00:50:33.291 --> 00:50:34.273
that true?

00:50:34.273 --> 00:50:35.840
Well, I love it.

00:50:36.302 --> 00:50:36.686
Thank you.

00:50:36.686 --> 00:50:37.965
should watch all of them.

00:50:37.965 --> 00:50:46.208
I the only one that is like the only the only series that I did not enjoy and if I quit was Picard.

00:50:47.208 --> 00:50:49.929
I just could not couldn't make it through that one.

00:50:50.190 --> 00:50:51.989
But like Next Generation is great.

00:50:51.989 --> 00:50:54.851
Deep Space Nine is a masterpiece.

00:50:54.851 --> 00:50:58.851
Voyager starts off rough but like finds its footing.

00:50:58.851 --> 00:51:07.614
I was joking on Blue Sky the other day that as soon as that started being written by the Swedish chef got way better because he was just like Borg borg borg.

00:51:07.614 --> 00:51:09.313
Borg borg borg borg.

00:51:10.373 --> 00:51:12.693
And that like it gets really good.

00:51:13.213 --> 00:51:15.414
Seven of Nine is one of my favorite characters.

00:51:17.074 --> 00:51:21.673
Yeah, and like so just watching those has been like my real thing for a long time now.

00:51:21.673 --> 00:51:29.222
Now that I think about it, we've been because we started with DS9 and so we've been watching them every night for a year or more now.

00:51:29.226 --> 00:51:31.405
Chris, you actually, you wrote some Star Trek, correct?

00:51:31.405 --> 00:51:33.686
Yeah, I've been on, so that was the IDW thing.

00:51:33.686 --> 00:51:42.206
I've been on the Star Trek team, the Shared Universe books, which is Jackson Lansing and Colin Kelly and I, and then like just a staple of really wonderful artists.

00:51:42.226 --> 00:51:50.186
Yeah, we've done two years of books and we did a crossover event last summer and we're doing a big crossover event this spring called Lore War.

00:51:50.306 --> 00:51:55.190
But it's very, it's a year after DS9 ends.

00:51:55.190 --> 00:51:59.735
So it's the year between the end of DS9 and Nemesis.

00:51:59.735 --> 00:52:05.541
we filled it to the brim with the craziest things, the craziest 12 months those characters have ever had.

00:52:05.682 --> 00:52:08.585
But yeah, it feels like Star Trek fantasy football.

00:52:08.766 --> 00:52:14.293
But it's been so much fun working with Heather on that stuff and architecting it.

00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:18.632
Can we talk to Heather about, can we get a Tyler Crook Star Trek cover?

00:52:18.632 --> 00:52:20.422
don't know if Tyler, I'm speaking for you here.

00:52:20.422 --> 00:52:26.081
I don't mean to, but you know, if that's not something you're interested in, we need to get Heather on the line because I would buy one of those.

00:52:26.081 --> 00:52:28.355
Yeah, tell Heather I'll do that in a heartbeat.

00:52:28.355 --> 00:52:29.126
I would love to.

00:52:29.126 --> 00:52:30.554
my god, I will write her tonight.

00:52:30.554 --> 00:52:34.554
is, she is, I know she's a huge fan of yours and she's, She's great.

00:52:34.554 --> 00:52:37.117
Yeah, I haven't I haven't talked to her in a long, time.

00:52:38.260 --> 00:52:41.682
Man, those covers by that Malachi Ward has been doing.

00:52:43.230 --> 00:52:46.168
every time you post one of those, I'm just like, how did you do this?

00:52:46.168 --> 00:52:46.769
Blown away.

00:52:46.769 --> 00:52:53.016
Yeah, this is the greatest like Star Trek, but like not the bad stars.

00:52:53.358 --> 00:53:02.717
Yeah, he does all the crossover covers and so he's done the lore war covers and the palette is just super cool and yeah, it's been really fun.

00:53:02.717 --> 00:53:11.518
For me, think I just finished the Percival Everett book, James, which I know you've heard about, it's...

00:53:11.518 --> 00:53:14.898
Yeah, so it's quite popular.

00:53:15.177 --> 00:53:20.478
Percival Everett wrote Erasure upon which the movie American Fiction was based.

00:53:20.554 --> 00:53:30.536
But James is the story of Huck Finn, but told through the, it's a reimagining of that, told through the story of Jim, the slave that Huck is with.

00:53:30.536 --> 00:53:37.228
It's his internal story and it's really heavy and beautiful.

00:53:37.228 --> 00:53:46.650
we were just talking about this great country of ours, which is, is unflinching in its look at the country and America, especially at that time.

00:53:46.650 --> 00:53:49.101
And it's very relevant now.

00:53:49.782 --> 00:53:53.425
And it goes in some pretty, pretty intense directions.

00:53:53.425 --> 00:53:59.909
And but ultimately, it's just a just such a beautiful human book.

00:53:59.949 --> 00:54:14.989
It's funny and shocking and and scary because it's you realize what it's like for an adult man to be going through this experience with a white child on the run, knowing what could happen at any moment to him.

00:54:14.989 --> 00:54:18.481
And it it's it's it's fantastic.

00:54:18.481 --> 00:54:18.911
Yeah.

00:54:18.911 --> 00:54:24.719
I read it all through jury duty, not on the trial, obviously, but there's a lot of extra time in the courthouse.

00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:26.931
So I read it, I blew through it.

00:54:26.931 --> 00:54:28.213
It's such a good book.

00:54:28.213 --> 00:54:29.409
Yeah, it's incredible.

00:54:29.409 --> 00:54:35.742
Yeah, that's I'm glad to hear that endorsement because I've obviously seen it be celebrated through, you know, again, Barnes and Noble and such.

00:54:35.742 --> 00:54:39.893
obviously people best of 2024 lists often that was on there somewhere.

00:54:39.893 --> 00:54:42.983
So you've inspired me to go grab that this weekend.

00:54:42.983 --> 00:54:50.175
But again, as I said a moment ago, Tyler, Chris, an absolute pleasure having you both here on the Oblivion Bar podcast.

00:54:50.175 --> 00:54:57.530
I cannot implore people enough to go grab that first issue of Out of Alcatraz comes out on March 19th.

00:54:57.530 --> 00:55:00.306
FOC is February 24th.

00:55:00.586 --> 00:55:02.538
this will come out way before that everybody.

00:55:02.538 --> 00:55:07.028
So when you're listening to this, you will have the opportunity to go to your LCS and go ahead and preorder this book.

00:55:07.028 --> 00:55:09.869
This is how you support comics.

00:55:09.891 --> 00:55:12.181
And this is a book that you should be preordering for sure.

00:55:12.181 --> 00:55:17.454
I've already, I told my local comic shop here in Indianapolis, Mages Comics, I want every cover.

00:55:17.454 --> 00:55:21.329
want cover A down to Hayden Sherman's one in 50.

00:55:21.329 --> 00:55:22.155
I want all of them.

00:55:22.155 --> 00:55:27.588
I you guys, you guys have like eight covers for this first issue.

00:55:27.588 --> 00:55:28.648
That's incredible.

00:55:28.833 --> 00:55:29.596
Yeah, they're good.

00:55:29.596 --> 00:55:32.815
It's like we did a great, like nice breadth of covers.

00:55:32.815 --> 00:55:37.197
I don't feel like we didn't go overboard, but it's like eight ones you want.

00:55:37.226 --> 00:55:37.507
Yeah.

00:55:37.507 --> 00:55:38.146
Absolutely.

00:55:38.146 --> 00:55:38.987
Yeah.

00:55:38.987 --> 00:55:39.358
All right.

00:55:39.358 --> 00:55:42.128
Well, before I let you go and Chris, I'll start with you here.

00:55:42.128 --> 00:55:45.891
Anything you want to tease for the listener here and how, again, you're not on social media.

00:55:45.891 --> 00:55:47.572
How can they follow you anywhere?

00:55:47.572 --> 00:55:48.402
Can they follow your career?

00:55:48.402 --> 00:55:49.965
Do they just show up one day?

00:55:49.965 --> 00:55:52.059
They're like, look, here's a book from Chris.

00:55:52.059 --> 00:55:53.005
Cool.

00:55:53.005 --> 00:55:54.865
I guess Campbell has a new thing.

00:55:55.246 --> 00:56:02.905
Yeah, no, I guess the major thing I'll tease is, well, we have that lore war crossover coming up with Star Trek.

00:56:02.905 --> 00:56:09.766
then I got a new television show coming out later this year.

00:56:09.766 --> 00:56:14.326
They don't have a premiere date yet, but it's the third season of The Terror for AMC.

00:56:14.326 --> 00:56:16.965
But it's based on an original novel by Victor Laval.

00:56:16.965 --> 00:56:19.326
And I show ran the show with Victor.

00:56:19.666 --> 00:56:20.905
It's six episodes.

00:56:20.905 --> 00:56:22.498
It's called The Devil in Silver.

00:56:22.498 --> 00:56:26.298
It's based on Victor's book, which itself is quite wonderful.

00:56:26.338 --> 00:56:32.121
But we departed from the book and evolved it together with some really wonderful writers and actors.

00:56:32.121 --> 00:56:33.902
Dan Stevens is the lead.

00:56:33.902 --> 00:56:36.822
We shot that all last year in New York.

00:56:36.822 --> 00:56:40.733
it's actually being final delivery is on the 13th of this month.

00:56:40.733 --> 00:56:43.264
So I'm finally done with that show.

00:56:43.264 --> 00:56:47.445
And then it gets to premiere on the television box later this year.

00:56:47.445 --> 00:56:48.782
So check it out.

00:56:48.782 --> 00:56:49.342
That's amazing.

00:56:49.342 --> 00:56:50.521
That's so cool.

00:56:50.521 --> 00:56:52.742
Is that on the AMC plus app?

00:56:52.742 --> 00:57:04.077
are the other It'll be AMC Plus and it'll air and it'll do all their little things the way streaming and cable works these days and it'll be somewhere for you to click around on your smarts.

00:57:04.077 --> 00:57:05.400
For you to fucking...

00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:06.570
Just don't give up.

00:57:06.570 --> 00:57:07.434
You'll find it.

00:57:07.434 --> 00:57:08.597
Yeah.

00:57:08.786 --> 00:57:09.538
Tyler, how about you?

00:57:09.538 --> 00:57:10.496
How can people follow you?

00:57:10.496 --> 00:57:12.244
Is there anything you want to tease for the listener?

00:57:12.402 --> 00:57:12.833
Let's see.

00:57:12.833 --> 00:57:25.753
I'm on blue sky and Cara right now for the time being and then I also have a weekly live stream on YouTube called the comic book cool down that I do Fridays at 7 p.m.

00:57:25.753 --> 00:57:37.784
Pacific time and What I really the only thing I got the only thing I got in my life right now is Alcatraz So yeah, pick that up.

00:57:37.784 --> 00:57:38.585
I'm almost done.

00:57:38.585 --> 00:57:42.391
I'm starting the fifth issue this week.

00:57:42.391 --> 00:57:43.902
man, I'm excited.

00:57:43.918 --> 00:57:45.079
That's cool.

00:57:45.684 --> 00:57:49.635
How does it feel to be directly competing with Daniel Warren Johnson and his Friday with D-Dubs?

00:57:49.635 --> 00:57:52.177
Do you feel that tension between?

00:57:52.177 --> 00:57:54.838
don't feel like there's a competition for one thing.

00:57:55.697 --> 00:58:02.498
I actually did a thing where I worked out when the best time was for me to or the best day for me to do it.

00:58:02.498 --> 00:58:06.237
I was like, really, Fridays are the only days where it makes sense for me to schedule this.

00:58:06.237 --> 00:58:13.597
And then I had to pay attention to Daniel's live stream to be like, OK, I'm going to do it at 7 p.m.

00:58:13.597 --> 00:58:15.137
because that's when his isn't on.

00:58:15.137 --> 00:58:17.697
So I can still watch his occasionally now.

00:58:18.257 --> 00:58:19.038
then he still does it.

00:58:19.038 --> 00:58:20.858
He just does it at random times.

00:58:22.262 --> 00:58:24.532
Daniel, stick to the script here, man.

00:58:24.653 --> 00:58:26.594
Make a schedule, man.

00:58:26.594 --> 00:58:28.793
We're trying to make room.

00:58:29.677 --> 00:58:31.929
All right, well, gentlemen, thank you so much for being here once again.

00:58:31.929 --> 00:58:33.769
I'd love to get you back on once the series is over.

00:58:33.769 --> 00:58:40.563
Maybe we can talk full spoilers or whatever, just any opportunity I get to have either both of you or individually on the show again in the future.

00:58:40.563 --> 00:58:42.119
I would absolutely jump at that.

00:58:42.242 --> 00:58:43.074
That would be great.

00:58:43.074 --> 00:58:44.521
Thanks so much for having us, man.

00:58:44.521 --> 00:58:45.516
Yeah.

00:58:45.606 --> 00:58:48.889
All righty, there's that conversation with both Christopher Cantwell and Tyler Crick.

00:58:48.889 --> 00:58:52.972
Once again, thank you so much, both of you for coming on the show.

00:58:52.992 --> 00:58:54.152
Such a great conversation.

00:58:54.152 --> 00:58:55.114
Love talking to both of them.

00:58:55.114 --> 00:59:03.702
And as I say there at the end of that conversation, would love to get them back on after Out of Alcatraz is collected into what I hope is a nice, deluxe hardcover.

00:59:03.702 --> 00:59:08.054
know, Tyler has gotten a couple of those with both Harrell County and the Lonesome Hunters.

00:59:08.054 --> 00:59:12.548
Gosh, would it not be great to get one of those nice oversized hardcovers from Oni Press?

00:59:12.548 --> 00:59:13.969
If anyone's listening.

00:59:14.106 --> 00:59:20.648
Wink Wink over at ONIPRESS would love to get a oversized hardcover or just a hardcover in general of Out of Alcatraz.

00:59:20.648 --> 00:59:23.610
So once again, thank you so much Chris and Tyler.

00:59:23.610 --> 00:59:25.161
Greatly appreciate you guys coming onto the show.

00:59:25.161 --> 00:59:29.673
And again, Out of Alcatraz number one comes out on March 19th.

00:59:29.673 --> 00:59:32.074
And again, FOC is on February 24th.

00:59:32.074 --> 00:59:35.476
So go pre-order that book, add it to your pull list, all the good things.

00:59:35.476 --> 00:59:38.250
So that'll do it for episode 181.

00:59:38.250 --> 00:59:46.166
Next week on the show, Aaron will be back as I said earlier, and we are going to be covering again, as I mentioned earlier, Captain America, Brave New World.

00:59:46.166 --> 00:59:48.717
We're going to be talking about the brand new installment in the MCU.

00:59:48.717 --> 00:59:51.768
Excitement is, it wavers.

00:59:51.768 --> 00:59:54.320
comes, it ebbs and flows here recently.

00:59:54.320 --> 01:00:02.487
In one moment, I'm so excited for this movie and on other moments I am cautiously optimistic and then other times I am extremely worried.

01:00:02.487 --> 01:00:07.190
And as many people know, this movie has gone through multiple reshoots.

01:00:07.371 --> 01:00:08.442
And that's nerve wracking.

01:00:08.442 --> 01:00:10.782
And a lot of times these big blockbusters do that.

01:00:10.782 --> 01:00:15.644
But you know, the MCU I've officially, and I think I could speak for Aaron here as well.

01:00:15.644 --> 01:00:19.847
The quality has, the valleys have dipped here and there, right?

01:00:19.847 --> 01:00:30.690
Deadpool and Wolverine, it felt like a writing of the ship, but how much of that can be owed to the charisma of Hugh Jackman and, Ryan Reynolds and sort of our love of that character.

01:00:30.690 --> 01:00:37.346
So this will be definitely a good gauge on where we're at currently in the MCU, especially going into the Thunderbolts later this year.

01:00:37.346 --> 01:00:40.367
and going into Fantastic Four in the summer.

01:00:40.487 --> 01:00:42.909
you know, that will do it for this episode.

01:00:42.909 --> 01:00:46.773
Make sure you guys join us next week for that conversation about Captain America Brave New World.

01:00:46.773 --> 01:00:51.045
Again, if you want to support the show or if you want to follow along, following the show is a great way to do that.

01:00:51.045 --> 01:00:56.739
You can follow us over on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Audible, iHeartRadio, wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

01:00:56.739 --> 01:00:58.019
That's where the oblivion bar is.

01:00:58.019 --> 01:01:06.365
If you want to actually watch the video version of this conversation with Chris Cantwell and Tyler Crook and other interviews that we have, that is over on YouTube.

01:01:06.382 --> 01:01:20.748
Thank you to our patrons, Alex, Alice, Aaron, Bodder, Chris S, Chris Y, Christie, David, Elliot, George, Johnny, Greg, Haley, Ham6, Jake, Jeremy, Kyle, Losey, Mac, Miles, Mike, Olivia, Ryan, I, Robert, Sean, Travis, Zach, and Brad and Lisa.

01:01:20.748 --> 01:01:26.271
Thank you all so much for supporting the Oblivion Bar podcast over on patreon.com forward slash Oblivion Bar pod.

01:01:26.271 --> 01:01:31.793
Follow the show over on social media, blue sky, Instagram, TikTok, at Oblivion Bar pod.

01:01:31.793 --> 01:01:33.673
Gosh, is social media just a.

01:01:33.673 --> 01:01:35.155
absolute hellscape right now.

01:01:35.155 --> 01:01:41.159
I have absolutely no idea where the town hall sentiment of social media has gone, but we are still there currently.

01:01:41.159 --> 01:01:45.101
So I would say blue sky, Instagram and Tik Tok are the big ones there.

01:01:45.101 --> 01:01:51.507
If you want to get an official piece of merch from our T public store, go over to our website, oblivionbarpodcast.com.

01:01:51.507 --> 01:01:54.188
Thank you KXD studio for our oblivion bar art.

01:01:54.188 --> 01:01:57.110
He is at KXD graphics over on Instagram.

01:01:57.110 --> 01:02:00.213
Thank you, dream kid for all of our amazing musical themes.

01:02:00.213 --> 01:02:02.382
Thank you, DJ sky back for a grid theme.

01:02:02.382 --> 01:02:07.762
And once again, as always, do not forget to tip your bartenders, your servers 20 % or more.

01:02:07.762 --> 01:02:08.822
That's the bare minimum.

01:02:08.822 --> 01:02:18.782
If you go out to eat, you know, any appropriate moment that it is to tip someone 20 % or more, come on, let's, take care of our, our service industry people.

01:02:18.782 --> 01:02:19.681
deserve it.

01:02:19.681 --> 01:02:22.461
And again, that'll do it for the Abillion Bar podcast this week.

01:02:22.461 --> 01:02:27.481
Thank you all so much for listening to the show and we will see you next week for episode 182.