MOVIE REVIEW: Sinners & Warfare w/ Brad Gullickson

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Hey, this is Michael Avon-Oming, the combo creator of titles like Powers, Blue Book, and William of Newberry, and you are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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you Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles.

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Hello everyone and welcome to episode 190 of the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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I'm your guy who doesn't need Eric Pritz 2000 EDM classic call on me to show up to Jazzercise class on time, Chris Hacker, and joining me is the finest guitar player this side of the Mason Dixon, my co-host and BFF, Aaron Knowles.

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Well, you keep on dancing with the devil.

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One day he's gonna follow you home.

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That's right, brother.

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Welcome everybody back to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Aaron and I are not alone this week.

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We had to bring in the big guns, talk about these two incredible films.

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watching me.

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You know, again, as you probably saw, as you clicked on the episode, we are talking about centers and warfare, sort of a double feature on the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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you know, this week, two very different films, two very excellent films that we're going to have very different discussions on, I'm sure.

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And speaking of the discussions, we had to bring it again, as I said, the big guns joining us over from the Comic Book Couples Counseling sitting in the third chair.

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One of our BFFs in the comic book world, Brad Gullickson is joining us here for episode 190.

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Welcome, Brad.

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Hello?

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I have had to tell myself a mantra before coming on to this podcast I had to do like, you know some unique New York's and the arsonist has oddly shaped feet and Brad let them talk It's not your show.

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It's not your show.

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It's not your show So yeah, I feel like I'm in good behavior to guests today That's it.

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I don't can't remember It's really hard, I know, when you're sitting in chair one and you're on another podcast, Aaron will tell you, because we recently appeared on Comics and Chronic with our good friend Anthony and Anthony and co.

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And I immediately, got about 35 minutes into our conversation about Wonder Woman Dead Earth.

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And I'm like, okay, let me take this over.

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So anyway, Anthony, when you were, know, that's what we do, right?

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Yeah, you know, I am the mouth dork for a reason.

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I do not shut up.

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I'm gonna, I'm really trying to change in my elder years.

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So we'll see, we'll see.

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I'm just going to throw this out there also.

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Brad Gullickson is the most huggable podcaster in the business.

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I don't even know if he's okay with am okay with that, I've worked very hard on this huggable body.

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I aspire to that level.

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Yeah.

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Aaron, you're like a very close second, I'll say.

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Thank you.

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Closer to second than first.

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Brad, briefly, I'm sure folks, gosh, everyone, you're listening to this right now and you have not listened to Comic Book Couples Counseling, I don't know what to tell you.

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Shame on you firstly.

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But for the layman, will you please tell folks briefly what CBCC is?

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And then also tell me what it was like to talk to Grant Morrison last week.

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Ha Comic Book Couples Counseling is a podcast that I do with my lovely wife Lisa.

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We've been doing it for the last five years.

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It is, you know, it's a comic book show.

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We talk comics.

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Usually we have a guest on to discuss a comic that they have created.

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This past week we celebrated Superman Day by having Grant Morrison on the show to talk all-star Superman.

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This is a conversation that I never thought we would actually have and the fact that we were able to pull it off and make it happen.

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And then the conversation itself was so wonderful.

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mean, you know, lifetime highlight, honestly.

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Yeah, and it is excellent.

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I, you know, I listened to the moment it popped on Patreon and I can't recommend folks enough to go and listen to that because again, not only does Grant not often do interviews, especially podcasts, but again, as you said, the conversation is excellent.

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And, you know, we've talked about this, you know, through texts and such.

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think we got a similar feeling.

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Aaron knows this not too long ago when we had Brian K.

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Vaughn on the show.

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When you get these big creators on and you're able to talk to them.

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just have the chance to talk to them.

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Wow, what a moment.

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But also what if that conversation turns out incredible?

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And that's what happened with you guys with Grant.

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And I just couldn't be happier for you.

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know, I do think that that conversation actually pairs well with a lot of what is being explored in both Sinners and Warfare.

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know, these two movies, while they don't necessarily look like they share a lot in common, when you just look at the log line, they are both films that are looking to our past to talk very much about our current moment.

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And our conversation with Grant Morrison in exploring Superman and All-Star Superman is also a conversation that's about this current moment by looking back, you know, 87 years over the life of Kal-El Superman.

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If the listeners that are listening right now, which I know they are all listening very intently, go listen to the comic book couples counseling podcast and also make sure you take a box of tissues and a loved one and prepare yourself because I made the mistake of the first time I ever listened to CBCC.

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I was driving from Tennessee to New York and I was in the van alone by myself just driving for hours and I'm like listening and I'm just, know, holy shit.

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I am like self analyzing, I'm going through everything, like my relationships, my past.

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And at one point I was just bawling.

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I was just bawling because you guys explore some real emotions through real texts, through real comics, through books and through in-depth methodology.

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And it's like, it's an incredible show.

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Thank thank you, thank thank thank you.

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Yeah, yeah, you know, we don't try to make you cry every episode, but it does happen.

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Speaking of crying, Aaron, I mean, well, go ahead.

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We're going to say.

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Well, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Well, happy tears.

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Here we go.

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Here's some happy oblivion bar tears, because everybody a couple of things have happened since the last time we were able actually sit down and talk to all of you over the last week.

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Not only do we get one incredible sponsor, but we have two here.

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Aaron, tell the folks our very first sponsor.

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Who did we get somehow?

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How do we trick them into partnering with us here on the Oblivion Bar podcast?

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Pop Rocks.

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Pop rocks, yes, thank God for them.

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We got Oni press the loudest.

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Whoa.

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whoa.

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Yeah.

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Like you're like surprised.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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The loudest thing in comics, you know, since 1997.

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First off, we are incredibly thankful that they decided to partner with us.

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And, know, the, the representative that we've been speaking to, I don't know if we want to drop his name or anything, Chris, he'll let you do it.

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Hey, fantastic.

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Like the relationship we're already building with I mean, we already have a great relationship with lot of Oni as a Patrick Horvath spin on the show recently.

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Tyler Crook and Christopher Cantwell has been on recently.

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Yeah, especially, you know, in the last, like I'd say five or six episodes, we've had a weird amount of only press just like that was not part of it.

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Yeah, were just coming on because only press is putting out incredible books right now.

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Yes.

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my God.

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we love talking about incredible books.

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And so this is a very exciting time for us here at the Oblivion Bar.

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Couldn't ask for a better small press publisher to partner with going into 2025.

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As we've sort of said already, you know, looking at the slate that they have coming out, you know, of course they have their Scott Pilgrims, you know, they're they're known for having their occasional mega hit OGN, but then they have the EC comics as well.

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Only press.

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What an incredible publisher.

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I only see them doing more incredible things.

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And everyone listens right now.

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The week that this episode releases, go over to add oblivion bar pod and we're going to have an Pretty incredible giveaway to celebrate not only our partnership with only press, but also our five year anniversary, which was on April 16th.

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So be on the lookout for that.

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Along with that, Aaron, we also partnered with one of our favorite local comic book shops out in St.

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Louis, Missouri, Endless Comics Games and Cards.

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This is a relatively new partnership.

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But Scott Sampson over there, former peer over at the fantasy shop when I used to work there in St.

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Louis, he has since moved over to Endless Comics and he reached out.

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He said, hey, I like what you guys are doing at the Oblivion Bar.

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I said, we've been wanting to hitch our wagon to a local comic book shop.

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Because again, we believe in that brick and mortar space, the community that local comic book shops bring.

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That's right.

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You got to keep those communities alive.

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There's too many forces outside outside forces that are destroying places like this.

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So if we can help prop them up, that's what we want to do.

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And they're going to be sponsoring Chris's Corner going forward along with normal ad reads here and there.

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So.

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Big, big shout out to Oni Press and Endless Comics for joining us over here at the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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One more small piece of housekeeping.

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Aaron, tell the folks how they can support the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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If you want to support the oblivion bar podcast, consider checking out our Patreon for your support.

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can gain access to bonus episodes each week called the grid and behind the scenes look at how we prepare each episode with episode transcripts and Patreon polls and a whole bunch of other exclusive goodies like giveaway free shit.

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We do it all the time.

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Come get it.

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Give a shot with a seven day free trial at patreon.com forward slash oblivion bar pod or check out the link in the show notes.

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Wow.

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That was a machine man.

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That was great.

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I like it.

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All right.

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Let's move on everybody again.

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Check the show notes if you to sort through balloon bar podcasts.

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Real quick, before we get into these reviews, can I ask both of you really quick?

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Where do we start?

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Do we go with warfare or do we go with centers?

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What do you think?

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I want to go centers.

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I'm just going to go right off the bat with centers.

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first, Brad, what are your thoughts?

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You know, both are great movies, in my opinion.

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have it.

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I don't want to spoil everyone's opinions here.

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I don't know how you two feel.

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think Chris likes them both.

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But Aaron hasn't said I enjoyed them both.

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I can talk about both at any moment.

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Drop of a hat.

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All right, well, with that being said, let's go ahead and get into centers then.

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main topic.

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Alrighty, let's talk about Sinners, the brand new Ryan Coogler film.

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Spoilers ahead, also, we should just broadly say both for warfare and for Sinners, big spoilers, we're just gonna talk about it all in depth.

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Let's not waste time dancing around it.

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So Brad, since you're sitting in our third chair and you're the guest here, initial thoughts on Sinners.

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Yeah, I understand that we're gonna be doing spoilers, but I just would highly encourage your listeners to please go and see the film because there are some twists and turns in this movie that I would not want you to have ruined for you.

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You know, I am a person that doesn't necessarily like feel like spoilers should rule all narratives.

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Like I think, you know, you don't really even know how you feel about a movie until you've watched a film two or three times.

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But just go and watch it and go watch it on like the biggest screen you possibly can.

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If you do have an IMAX, if you're one of like the lucky 10 cities that has the IMAX 70 millimeter, go and see it.

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Somehow we don't here in DC, it's criminal.

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But I saw it on IMAX, I've seen it twice now on IMAX actually.

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I watched it again last night, I had to take Lisa to go see it.

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and she, like me, just adored this film.

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Yes, it's a horror movie, but it does what all genre films should do.

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It's speaking to larger themes, it's incredibly layered, and there's just a lot to talk about with this flick.

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100 % agree with Brad and Lisa.

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We're going to try and get to as much of this as possible throughout this review.

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We'll try and keep it as spoiler free, but there's going to be things that slip out.

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No, no, no, no, no, it's spoilery.

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Sorry, everybody.

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If you haven't seen this, we cannot dance around.

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shit, pause the shit and go see it and then, you know, push play again.

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OK, yes.

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But my initial thoughts and I'll be, you know, as quick about this as possible is this.

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It's incredible.

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The movie itself is every it's it is more than I expected and it's more than what I wanted.

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And everything that I could have asked for.

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So I am so excited to talk about this film because and yes, biggest screen you can see it on with the best speakers that you can hear because the music and the just everything goes into this.

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It's such a, what do call it?

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Like a phonic experience.

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This movie is so- It uses all the tools of movies.

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Exactly.

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It is absolutely like a cinematic, like just adventure.

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And I, and I am so excited for people to see this movie because I absolutely am thrilled about how well it went.

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to echo both Brad and Aaron here.

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It tingles every single part of your senses while watching it, right?

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it gives you a little Peter tingle, right?

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And, you know, again, the cinematography is absolutely insane.

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We'll talk about that.

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The composer absolutely is top notch.

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Obviously Ryan Coogler from behind the camera.

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Maybe the best he's been ever?

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Question mark like, yeah.

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And the talent, of course, like you could also make a strong argument.

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This is this is Michael B.

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Jordan's best film, best role that he's ever.

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ever been in the top to bottom.

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Yeah.

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Plural, plural roles.

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Yeah.

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You know, this movie while watching it almost from the jump, because, you know, and we'll talk about it here in just a moment.

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But as Brad mentioned, some lucky folks, me being one of them, got to see this in 70 millimeter, which is according to Ryan Coogler, the optimal way to see this film.

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And from the moment you see Preacher Boy, you know, drive up that driveway in front of that church, you can just see it.

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In front of you how important this is this is what I think ron ryan wanted needed to tell this story, he needed to tell it his way and sort of the journey about how he went about telling it his way is not only like I'm trying to try to figure out the best way to describe this, Not only does it work out in his favor, but it's the movie is better for it because of it Right, like if if folks were able to get as much access to every single weapon that they could in their toolbox to make a movie like this, we as film goers would be much better for it, right?

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And it comes at a time too where Minecraft is currently the world leader in box office.

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you know, Brad, I don't know if you have you seen the Minecraft?

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it my friend.

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okay.

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Not a bad option.

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You're one of the only people in the world that did because it's it's killing right now.

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It's got I think it's close to 700 million already and it's only been in theaters for two weeks.

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So it'll hit a billion.

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It'll be the first billion dollar movie of the year.

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And as Aaron, I talked about in our previous review of of Minecraft movie.

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Well, that movie is pretty bad overall.

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It does something really important for me, which is brings people to the movie theater.

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It's getting folks to go out to the movie theater and it's helping in some way.

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Hopefully Hollywood doesn't learn the wrong lessons.

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Hopefully this movie makes a ton of money that way they learn that lesson and not make more Minecrafts.

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But point being is that what a juxtaposition that this movie and what Warcraft is to compare to what like most movie goers are shelling out for, I guess.

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So Aaron, for the layman, of course, as we often do here in these reviews, go ahead and let's do an overview of centers.

00:16:27.672 --> 00:16:38.044
trying to leave their troubled lives behind when brothers return to their Mississippi hometown to start over, only to discover that an unknown evil is waiting to welcome them back.

00:16:38.347 --> 00:16:38.958
Yes.

00:16:38.958 --> 00:16:40.700
And among among other things, right?

00:16:40.700 --> 00:16:43.961
Like that's very basic cable description.

00:16:44.022 --> 00:16:46.964
Brad, you mentioned that there are like multiple facets in this movie.

00:16:46.964 --> 00:16:48.544
Again, looking at that synopsis.

00:16:48.544 --> 00:16:49.024
Sure.

00:16:49.024 --> 00:16:56.509
You know, the the twins, as they're known in the movie, the smokestack twins, you know, they come back to their hometown.

00:16:56.509 --> 00:17:00.232
They chose to leave Chicago to come back to their hometown.

00:17:00.432 --> 00:17:01.014
Did they?

00:17:01.014 --> 00:17:04.665
Brad, that's I think that's been my first question for you is your read.

00:17:04.665 --> 00:17:06.626
We don't really get a definitive answer in this movie.

00:17:06.626 --> 00:17:08.167
We get speculation, but.

00:17:08.182 --> 00:17:08.903
What?

00:17:09.068 --> 00:17:11.288
Do we do you think we do?

00:17:12.128 --> 00:17:12.608
Good.

00:17:12.608 --> 00:17:14.868
I was going to shift it to Brad, but good.

00:17:15.054 --> 00:17:15.374
Okay.

00:17:15.374 --> 00:17:20.938
I mean, so they literally, like they have to discussion in there where they, where they talk about where the money came from.

00:17:21.018 --> 00:17:23.900
they robbed two different gangs that they were working for.

00:17:23.900 --> 00:17:29.284
They basically played them and the woman said that, when they figure it out, they're going to come down here and they're going to kill you.

00:17:29.284 --> 00:17:30.674
Like that's why they had to leave.

00:17:30.674 --> 00:17:34.247
They had no choice but to come home and try and create something back at home.

00:17:34.346 --> 00:17:39.319
not knowing the evil that not only is already at home, but the evil that's going to be coming back.

00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:45.213
And they said it in the beginning of the movie, we chose to come home to the evil that we knew and they didn't know shit.

00:17:45.518 --> 00:17:46.299
Fred?

00:17:46.347 --> 00:17:50.740
mean, what's great about the film is we don't have it all spelled out for us.

00:17:50.740 --> 00:17:54.962
I mean, there's Irish beer and Italian wine that they're selling at their juke joint.

00:17:54.962 --> 00:18:00.705
So, they got that stuff from two places in Chicago.

00:18:01.747 --> 00:18:07.308
that element, their history, whatever happened in Chicago, that's just enough there to tantalize.

00:18:07.490 --> 00:18:15.374
What's great about this movie is there's so much story beyond its runtime, and you can go down into all of these different...

00:18:15.374 --> 00:18:22.455
paths and imagine, you know, an entire universe of Sinners related tales.

00:18:22.476 --> 00:18:27.777
And, you know, that's one of the great things that Ryan Coogle has always been able to do in his filmmaking.

00:18:27.777 --> 00:18:32.147
I think he just takes it to the next level with with this one.

00:18:32.147 --> 00:18:48.571
And, you know, what's great about Sinners, what is honestly like one of the most surprising elements about Sinners is the time that it takes to tell its story, to tell its setup before the horrific stuff starts to happen.

00:18:48.571 --> 00:18:53.954
And I would say the best scene in the movie is not a horror scene at all.

00:18:54.115 --> 00:18:58.699
It has almost nothing to do with the horror element.

00:18:59.038 --> 00:19:05.143
And then the movie goes into its next reel.

00:19:05.143 --> 00:19:07.265
I mean, this is very much like From Dusk Till Dawn, right?

00:19:07.265 --> 00:19:09.395
Like the Robert Rodriguez, Quinn Tarantino joint.

00:19:09.395 --> 00:19:14.894
It has almost the same structure in a lot of ways, but it's Ryan Coogler topping Tarantino and Rodriguez.

00:19:14.894 --> 00:19:16.534
Yeah, right.

00:19:16.534 --> 00:19:29.413
That's that was what I absolutely thought as a reference of this was absolutely from dusk till dawn because we get a, you know, we get a kind of a family unit stuck in this in this building trying to fight off and survive.

00:19:29.413 --> 00:19:31.630
And so it's just, very, very similar.

00:19:31.630 --> 00:19:32.070
Yeah.

00:19:32.070 --> 00:19:36.935
I mean, and I've even heard some people, Aaron, you're going to love this because we covered it one year for our Halloween special.

00:19:36.935 --> 00:19:46.753
I've even seen some comparisons to Night of the Demon, the Tales from the Crypt movie, the schlocky 90s movie where they're stuck in the hotel with Billy Zane.

00:19:46.753 --> 00:19:48.005
Demon Knight, friend.

00:19:48.005 --> 00:19:51.417
Demon Knight, great.

00:19:51.417 --> 00:19:54.000
And I love Ernest Dickerson as a filmmaker.

00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.082
That's one of my all time favorite movies.

00:19:56.563 --> 00:19:59.183
could like, yeah.

00:19:59.444 --> 00:20:00.505
We're getting.

00:20:00.958 --> 00:20:01.999
way.

00:20:01.999 --> 00:20:02.979
Yeah.

00:20:03.840 --> 00:20:09.045
Definitely quality difference between, you know, those both dust till dawn and centers.

00:20:09.045 --> 00:20:09.644
Different vibe.

00:20:09.644 --> 00:20:10.026
Right.

00:20:10.026 --> 00:20:15.789
You quality is maybe not the best way to say that, because I mean, there's definitely quality in now.

00:20:15.849 --> 00:20:17.030
Now I'm all messed up.

00:20:17.030 --> 00:20:18.852
Demon Knight, Demon Knight.

00:20:18.972 --> 00:20:19.925
There's definitely quality there.

00:20:19.925 --> 00:20:21.276
It's just a different type of quality.

00:20:21.276 --> 00:20:24.356
It's it's asking a lot of different questions, but I want to go back a little bit.

00:20:24.356 --> 00:20:29.181
Aaron, you mentioned how the brothers come back on their own, right?

00:20:29.181 --> 00:20:33.090
Like they chose to come back to Mississippi.

00:20:33.830 --> 00:20:36.241
I found myself wondering why, right?

00:20:36.241 --> 00:20:41.634
Like they have this money, they have all this, they have imports, you know, the different liquors and such.

00:20:41.634 --> 00:20:42.815
Why do they choose?

00:20:42.815 --> 00:20:44.496
Like that's what's really burning me.

00:20:44.496 --> 00:20:51.397
You mentioned it because it's the devil they know, which you again, you sort of alluded to the fact that like they eventually find the devil that they don't.

00:20:52.138 --> 00:20:56.390
I just am curious and I've done this even myself as someone who has left home multiple times.

00:20:56.390 --> 00:20:57.421
Aaron, you have as well.

00:20:57.421 --> 00:20:59.201
I guess we would be the two people to ask, right?

00:20:59.201 --> 00:21:01.720
Because You've left home and never gone back.

00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:05.544
And I have left home twice and gone came back to Indiana both times.

00:21:05.944 --> 00:21:07.266
Why do think that is?

00:21:07.349 --> 00:21:10.335
So what you think for the movie, it's.

00:21:10.335 --> 00:21:13.948
correlation with the movie, where's the sort of through line there?

00:21:13.976 --> 00:21:14.946
So, okay.

00:21:14.946 --> 00:21:25.295
For me, the way that I understood this storyline is if you look at it, where is the best place in the, this time of, know, we're just coming out of slavery.

00:21:25.295 --> 00:21:31.038
There's not a lot of, there's no, a lot of, of, you know, well, no, we're not.

00:21:31.038 --> 00:21:32.200
So, okay.

00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:40.705
If you go back and look during slave times, like during, you know, indentured servitude, Jim Crow era, there was a lot of tracking of, you know, slaves.

00:21:40.705 --> 00:21:43.406
So there were sales records, there was notes, all this stuff.

00:21:43.406 --> 00:21:47.980
So now you have it where all these, all these slaves are now no longer indentured servitude.

00:21:47.980 --> 00:21:48.920
They've been released.

00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.551
They're kind of working these, these, these homesteads as groups.

00:21:52.672 --> 00:22:00.557
And now they're just larger communities that will defend themselves and will take care of their own as a black community.

00:22:00.557 --> 00:22:10.817
What's a better place to hide from outside, like outside enemies than in your own community or in your own hometown where people will probably protect you also.

00:22:10.817 --> 00:22:16.488
You know, they're not looking to come down there and create any more animosity in the South.

00:22:17.814 --> 00:22:25.557
Yeah, I asked the question because of course I have an answer for it because you know, I came back to Indiana because it's comfortable.

00:22:25.597 --> 00:22:29.059
But these two men were in the north where they're free.

00:22:29.059 --> 00:22:31.361
mean, free in quotations.

00:22:31.381 --> 00:22:38.555
They come back to the south in Mississippi and arguably maybe one of the roughest parts of the south where they are so not in their element.

00:22:38.555 --> 00:22:40.130
I mean, we meet that in the very beginning.

00:22:40.130 --> 00:22:42.086
We meet literally the leader of the Kukas clan.

00:22:42.086 --> 00:22:45.469
We don't know that, but like we meet him in the first couple of scenes of the movie.

00:22:46.449 --> 00:22:48.019
They are not safe there.

00:22:48.172 --> 00:22:49.624
And yet they come back.

00:22:49.904 --> 00:22:51.807
I just, there's something there.

00:22:52.470 --> 00:22:54.101
What do you think?

00:22:54.101 --> 00:22:56.791
you know, they have that conversation as well.

00:22:56.791 --> 00:22:58.452
You know, the plantations aren't there.

00:22:58.452 --> 00:23:10.019
There's just taller buildings, know, like, you know, whatever they had been sold, what the North was going to be, what Chicago was going to be, what, you know, bootlegging with Al Capone was going to be, it didn't work.

00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:20.404
Yeah, we don't know exactly what happened, but the impression that I get, and again, this is what's great about the movie, is we're asking these questions like, well, what did happen?

00:23:20.404 --> 00:23:22.094
We don't know.

00:23:22.094 --> 00:23:30.336
But one of the great things about the movie is that these characters are lying to themselves and each other all the time.

00:23:31.077 --> 00:23:34.979
that is explicitly revealed at the end in terms of the guitar.

00:23:34.979 --> 00:23:43.942
But when they say like, well, it's better to come down to the devil we know, that's Stack talking to his little cousin.

00:23:43.942 --> 00:23:51.165
And in those conversations early on with his little cousin, Preacher Boy, there's a lot of like...

00:23:51.397 --> 00:23:52.818
boasting that's happening.

00:23:52.818 --> 00:23:55.930
They're really trying to play themselves up like they're, you know, big-time gangsters.

00:23:55.930 --> 00:24:02.478
They came back, they won Chicago, and now they're gonna, you know, return home in victory and win down here.

00:24:02.478 --> 00:24:05.644
And, you know, it doesn't go that way.

00:24:06.057 --> 00:24:09.415
It probably was never going to go that way whether there was a horror element or not.

00:24:09.855 --> 00:24:12.571
Right because of the era they live in there's no way you can win.

00:24:12.571 --> 00:24:17.637
I mean, well, mean, yeah, I was going say exactly what, what, what Brad says.

00:24:17.637 --> 00:24:28.374
Like in the morning they would have been dead anyways, cause they wouldn't have, there was going to be no, well they were under, but also the Klu Klux Klan was, was coming to come and kill them the next morning.

00:24:28.374 --> 00:24:31.556
So like it was not, it was, it was not a safe bet.

00:24:31.556 --> 00:24:32.996
They took a bet.

00:24:33.257 --> 00:24:51.778
They bet on, they, they, they did the whole Russian roulette thing that robbed the mob, robbed the, you know, and then came back and they're like, Hey, we're going to, no, yeah, it's, I love how just chaotic the story is just the hard landing that these two take into this town.

00:24:51.778 --> 00:24:55.361
And they think that, you know, they're going to come and hopefully with their reputation make it big.

00:24:55.361 --> 00:24:56.896
And it's just not going to, it's not going to help out.

00:24:56.896 --> 00:24:58.221
It's not going to their favor.

00:24:58.509 --> 00:25:14.990
Aaron, I love the fact that you mentioned chaotic because one thing that I've realized while watching this movie is that none of, we again, we have a master behind the camera and Ryan Coogler, this man has sculpted this movie to every right angle is tight.

00:25:14.990 --> 00:25:24.557
He has sculpted this movie to perfection and it's like not a mistake that this movie takes place in Clarksdale, Mississippi in 1932, right?

00:25:24.557 --> 00:25:25.837
I'm going to give you a little bit of detail.

00:25:25.837 --> 00:25:36.377
You guys tell me where, if you guys want to stop, but I want to just give a little backstory on why I think Ryan Coogler decided to play centers in this time era and in this, you know, the state, this town, what have you.

00:25:36.377 --> 00:25:46.877
So deep in the throes of Jim Crow, the movement of large numbers of black families were both, to and from Clarksdale as a prominent pillar in that city's history.

00:25:46.877 --> 00:25:52.279
After World War I plantation owners actually encouraged black folks after the Jim Crow era to move.

00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:53.770
to other parts of Mississippi for work.

00:25:53.770 --> 00:25:57.632
Don't just stay here, go somewhere else for obvious reasons.

00:25:57.672 --> 00:26:10.798
By the time, or by that time, Clarksdale had become the home to multiple different types of ethnic backgrounds, cultural backgrounds, mixtures of Lebanese and Italian and Chinese and Irish and Jewish.

00:26:10.798 --> 00:26:20.521
All these immigrant folks came to this town as like a hub of almost like a melting pot, like sort of a miniature America in a way.

00:26:20.521 --> 00:26:22.102
And we see that in the movie.

00:26:22.170 --> 00:26:29.316
Some people might watch this and go, wow, why, you know, there's a Chinese family running three, like two or three shops in this small town.

00:26:29.316 --> 00:26:29.746
Why is that?

00:26:29.746 --> 00:26:33.058
That seems, is it just Ryan Coogler doing DEI?

00:26:33.058 --> 00:26:35.191
No, this it's historically accurate.

00:26:35.191 --> 00:26:37.142
This is what was going on at that time.

00:26:37.442 --> 00:26:51.031
And then sort of to build off that, there's a legend about this town, about Clarksdale, a Freeman named Bill Peace, who had served in the Union army, had returned to Clarksdale after the war, pursued his former owner and allowed him to form a security force.

00:26:51.031 --> 00:26:52.833
to prevent theft on the plantation.

00:26:52.833 --> 00:26:58.286
So Bill Peace used his military know-how to essentially act as a force around this plantation.

00:26:58.286 --> 00:27:00.426
He must have had a good relationship with his former slave owner.

00:27:00.426 --> 00:27:01.867
Who knows what the backstory is there.

00:27:01.867 --> 00:27:03.568
I couldn't find any info on that.

00:27:03.749 --> 00:27:16.496
However, on October 9th, 1875, whites, a majority of the whites there in Clarksdale began hearing rumors that General Peace, I called him General Peace as a nickname, was preparing his troops to plunder the town.

00:27:16.496 --> 00:27:22.490
So, you know, again, Bill Peace comes to town, creates this sort of militia to protect his former owner's plantation.

00:27:22.490 --> 00:27:25.992
Some white folks hear about this and they go, not in my town.

00:27:25.992 --> 00:27:34.417
And they prepare basically their own militia to suppress Peace's quote unquote revolt across Mississippi.

00:27:34.417 --> 00:27:41.682
The white militia then frequently, you know, took down these folks and even killed Bill Peace in that moment.

00:27:41.682 --> 00:27:50.205
again, these two actual historical moments that happened in Clarksdale, I think were a direct influence on Kugler and his formation of this original story.

00:27:52.365 --> 00:27:53.717
All right, let's move on here.

00:27:53.717 --> 00:27:55.128
Let's see here.

00:27:55.128 --> 00:27:59.622
So, Brad, you mentioned you went to see this twice in IMAX, is correct?

00:27:59.622 --> 00:28:00.432
Yes.

00:28:00.613 --> 00:28:02.354
Aaron, how did you see it?

00:28:02.509 --> 00:28:03.252
I saw it IMAX.

00:28:03.252 --> 00:28:04.877
I went to an early screener.

00:28:04.877 --> 00:28:05.748
So an IMAX, okay.

00:28:05.748 --> 00:28:07.701
How are your guys's audiences?

00:28:08.066 --> 00:28:16.582
The first audience was in Silver Spring, Maryland, and it was on fire.

00:28:16.582 --> 00:28:21.954
Like, it was one of the best theatrical experiences I've ever experienced.

00:28:23.115 --> 00:28:30.185
And there are some very horny moments in this movie that we all appreciated.

00:28:30.185 --> 00:28:37.038
And it was the type of film where you had the crowd going, you know, speaking back to the movie.

00:28:37.038 --> 00:28:42.478
not in a disruptive way, but in conversation with the film.

00:28:42.478 --> 00:28:48.157
And the screams of the audience also became part of the score as well.

00:28:48.157 --> 00:28:52.117
It was just beautiful.

00:28:52.198 --> 00:29:01.357
And then last night, Lise and I went to see a 10 o'clock mall screening at Tyson's Corner Mall in McLean, Virginia.

00:29:01.458 --> 00:29:05.430
And there was like 20 of us and we were quiet.

00:29:05.430 --> 00:29:09.356
and we all enjoyed it in our own silent ways.

00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:14.808
Which just means that I got to really hear Lisa crying at the end.

00:29:15.771 --> 00:29:17.243
She was very loud.

00:29:17.517 --> 00:29:18.377
Hahaha.

00:29:18.377 --> 00:29:19.028
Aaron, how about you?

00:29:19.028 --> 00:29:21.078
How was your this is also like a reoccurring brand.

00:29:21.078 --> 00:29:31.988
I don't know if you're familiar, but this is like a reoccurring segment for Aaron and I, where we discuss our audience during that particular movie, because it varies to generally horrible to normal, you know, like that's how it goes.

00:29:31.988 --> 00:29:36.489
And the audience experiences so much about the movie itself.

00:29:36.791 --> 00:29:40.780
That's the color of going to the movies.

00:29:42.221 --> 00:29:45.442
I had a better than normal experience.

00:29:46.123 --> 00:29:52.105
I did have quite a few people that wanted to speak during the film or to the film.

00:29:52.904 --> 00:29:55.296
And so that was a little bit slightly disruptive.

00:29:55.296 --> 00:29:56.816
And then at one point I'm just like, fuck it.

00:29:56.816 --> 00:29:58.506
I'm gonna get into it also.

00:29:58.506 --> 00:30:00.287
I just, I don't care anymore.

00:30:00.287 --> 00:30:13.162
So I was kind of like, you know, cause I think the one thing that was really disruptive was the fact that I had somebody next to me who during the scene where they were picking cotton, Uh, was like, no, I didn't come here for this.

00:30:13.162 --> 00:30:14.521
I just lost my appetite.

00:30:14.521 --> 00:30:16.501
And I'm just like, this is historical.

00:30:16.501 --> 00:30:18.642
Like this is pretty fucking accurate.

00:30:18.642 --> 00:30:23.642
And you know, you should probably respect what we have all got and gone through for all this.

00:30:23.642 --> 00:30:27.842
Cause it was, you know, very large, largely a black crowd, you know?

00:30:27.842 --> 00:30:36.743
And it's like, for me, when I see things like this, as long as it's done respectfully and it's done, you well, you know, I, portrayed the way it's portrayed.

00:30:36.743 --> 00:30:38.296
know, it's important.

00:30:38.296 --> 00:30:39.156
It's part of the story.

00:30:39.156 --> 00:30:47.857
It is about this black community also trying to support itself and trying to be, you know, trying to be masters of their own destiny.

00:30:47.857 --> 00:30:55.105
it's like, want to like say that this like you should be, you should be like absorbing this, you know?

00:30:55.105 --> 00:30:56.586
Have a little decorum, right?

00:30:56.586 --> 00:30:59.230
Like, let's be mature about this, please.

00:30:59.230 --> 00:31:06.816
You know, in my instance, and I sort of hinted at earlier, you know, I actually saw this in 70 millimeter at downtown Indy, Aaron, where you and I went to see quantum mania.

00:31:06.816 --> 00:31:10.077
I will say this movie is a far better movie than quantum mania.

00:31:10.459 --> 00:31:15.182
you know, Quantum mania catching strays.

00:31:15.423 --> 00:31:23.342
Yeah, no, it was a it was an incredible viewing experience, not only because the crowd was great, but again, and we'll talk about here in just a moment.

00:31:23.342 --> 00:31:35.402
Because Ryan cooler goes into he's been going on like a press tour about the changes of aspect ratios in this film again specifically during the 70 millimeter viewing our Our print was number five.

00:31:35.402 --> 00:31:40.882
It was that either only ten prints made of the 70 millimeter in the entire world So we had print number five.

00:31:40.882 --> 00:31:50.382
I hate you we were the second viewing of print number five and And just so to put this in perspective everybody and this is me being a total asshole.

00:31:50.382 --> 00:31:54.895
There are only 12 Theaters in the entire US that can show 70 millimeter.

00:31:54.895 --> 00:32:00.854
Aaron, you actually have a theater in your, or you have two theaters in your town, New York City, that can play those 70 millimeter.

00:32:00.854 --> 00:32:02.000
This small town.

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:02.922
This small town.

00:32:02.922 --> 00:32:05.042
I think it's Lincoln is one of them, but I don't know where the other one is.

00:32:05.042 --> 00:32:05.383
Square.

00:32:05.383 --> 00:32:05.963
Yeah.

00:32:05.963 --> 00:32:07.805
But yeah, it was amazing.

00:32:07.805 --> 00:32:15.730
And, you know, a little small sidebar is that I went by myself, of course, and I was sandwiched between two black couples.

00:32:15.789 --> 00:32:21.355
And, you know, you could, it almost felt at certain times in the movie that you could sort of cut the tension.

00:32:21.355 --> 00:32:22.906
with a butter knife, right?

00:32:22.906 --> 00:32:27.490
Like it was again, as you said, Aaron, a mostly black, you know, audience, which was great.

00:32:27.490 --> 00:32:28.971
And everyone was awesome.

00:32:29.090 --> 00:32:34.795
But, know, being like the only one of the, would say like there were probably less than 10% of the people in the crowd were white.

00:32:35.095 --> 00:32:38.916
You know, there were definitely, no, no, no, never felt, never felt danger.

00:32:39.309 --> 00:32:40.936
You just see the Ku Klux Klan uniform.

00:32:40.936 --> 00:32:44.109
You're just like looking around like, fuck, I'm not making it out of here.

00:32:44.109 --> 00:32:57.130
There are scenes where at the end they're all, and again, we already put spoilers out there, but you have smoke mowing down the Ku Klux Klan in a very Django Unchained type of grotesque way.

00:32:57.130 --> 00:32:58.569
I mean, it was very satisfying.

00:32:59.255 --> 00:33:00.875
celebratory I would say.

00:33:00.875 --> 00:33:01.842
Yeah.

00:33:05.422 --> 00:33:12.321
And again, as you should, I mean, it was it was a very like relieving moment for him to sort of come out of the woods and be prepared in that sense.

00:33:12.321 --> 00:33:19.342
But, know, again, as a white dude in that crowd, you're like, oh, you know, yes, I'm one of us, one of you know, like I am.

00:33:19.342 --> 00:33:21.582
I'm celebrating with you guys in that way.

00:33:21.682 --> 00:33:22.501
But yeah.

00:33:22.501 --> 00:33:29.301
And again, I wanted to mention, you know, Ryan Cooler has been talking about how, this film, changes very vividly throughout it.

00:33:29.301 --> 00:33:34.380
There's a really awesome video that I will link in the show notes where Ryan Cooler sat down with Kodak to talk about.

00:33:34.380 --> 00:33:39.673
sort of the change between, know, was it one, and Brad, you might be able to help me out here.

00:33:39.673 --> 00:33:41.069
think it's like 120.

00:33:41.069 --> 00:33:42.730
I can't get all the ratios correct.

00:33:42.730 --> 00:33:44.630
It is a education.

00:33:44.630 --> 00:33:48.049
This Kodak video, it's like 11 minutes long.

00:33:48.049 --> 00:34:00.390
And if you've ever wondered why people care about widescreen and box ratio and all that stuff, like why is A24 always doing this?

00:34:00.390 --> 00:34:01.970
This is the education.

00:34:01.970 --> 00:34:10.929
And what's great about that video is he doesn't make you feel bad for not being in one of these glorious cities that has the 70 millimeter IMAX.

00:34:11.362 --> 00:34:31.713
Yeah, he shows you that all like all the options you have and the truth is like, you know, most people watch this movie are not going to have your experience and that's fine because the limax that I saw at the mall still delivered on the ratio changes and still had the emotional impact that he was looking for and he explains that in the video.

00:34:32.052 --> 00:34:39.786
So, you know, it's yeah, it's just he takes you to school and then he takes you to church and it's great.

00:34:39.786 --> 00:34:48.559
know how in depth we're going to get into the storyline, but there's a couple of things that I really, really wanted to talk about and discuss throughout this.

00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:51.351
before we get into the story really at all, much deeper.

00:34:51.351 --> 00:34:56.442
The one thing I want to say is, and Chris, you keep mentioning that Kugler is like a master behind the camera.

00:34:56.442 --> 00:34:59.043
There are some of these shots that just get set up.

00:34:59.043 --> 00:35:00.222
there's when they're drive.

00:35:00.222 --> 00:35:06.105
So first off, when they're driving down the road through the field and it's just beautiful colors, the colors are popping.

00:35:06.105 --> 00:35:07.184
It's cinematic.

00:35:07.184 --> 00:35:14.961
You got the scene where you're, know, preacher boys playing the guitar in the passenger seat and you know, Michael B.

00:35:14.961 --> 00:35:16.802
Jordan's just in the front seat and he just looks at him.

00:35:16.802 --> 00:35:38.135
He's just like, you think, and it's so great because the way that they have the actors kind of react to preacher boys playing is like, you almost feel like they're under a spell, which, you know, the lore of this film is that there are people in our world, like in society, that are able to use music.

00:35:38.135 --> 00:35:44.688
to bridge the gap between life and death, basically bring back, you know, bring spirits from the future, from the past.

00:35:44.867 --> 00:35:52.909
And it feels like every time this music is played, everybody just like, there's this moment where you just feel like everybody is hypnotized.

00:35:52.909 --> 00:35:56.260
You just feel like everybody is so caught on every single note.

00:35:56.260 --> 00:36:01.753
it's almost, like, it's the moment itself isn't contained to the screen.

00:36:01.753 --> 00:36:03.222
It flows into the audience.

00:36:03.222 --> 00:36:12.838
And like there was every time a song started, every time somebody picked up a guitar, I was just like, I was just like enjoying the music so well and so deeply.

00:36:12.838 --> 00:36:16.818
And the fact that it was like beautiful and well done.

00:36:16.938 --> 00:36:24.097
The, the you link in the show notes, the sinners official playlist and the music for this movie is incredible, especially in IMAX.

00:36:24.557 --> 00:36:27.101
Imagine watching this movie in Dolby.

00:36:27.101 --> 00:36:29.954
Yeah, that would have been an experience.

00:36:29.954 --> 00:36:35.574
And then the last thing that I'm really going to point out for again, I let somebody else talk because I'm rambling is.

00:36:35.574 --> 00:36:38.347
Self awareness is part of the, it's a part of it, Aaron.

00:36:38.594 --> 00:36:42.358
There is this scene and I know you go, okay.

00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:43.641
I know you're.

00:36:43.885 --> 00:36:45.512
Are we getting to the scene already?

00:36:46.163 --> 00:36:56.487
I know the scene you're about to say and I swear to God if you haven't watched this film yet For the love of God watch this don't have this room No.

00:36:56.487 --> 00:36:56.847
Yeah.

00:36:56.847 --> 00:36:57.862
This is a yeah.

00:36:57.862 --> 00:36:58.853
Aaron, go ahead.

00:36:59.858 --> 00:37:29.782
Yeah, please listen to Brad and listen to us like pause this and like don't listen further but the scene with it with the in the dance hall when the when the when the barn catches fire Pale pale moon that was honestly one of the most incredible experiences in a movie I've ever had Yes, this is mild Canton's first movie ever by the way the music to this, the, to the, the way that they blended them, the different styles of music, the different cultures.

00:37:29.782 --> 00:37:40.561
And again, I was going to mention this, but the shot, way that the camera is flowing through so much of these scenes is so incredible.

00:37:40.561 --> 00:37:49.893
And then to have this barn burned down during this whole magnanimous occasion, like event, just like it's such, it's like poetry in motion.

00:37:49.893 --> 00:37:54.266
It is one of the greatest movie sequences I've ever seen.

00:37:54.266 --> 00:37:55.617
I'm 45 years old.

00:37:55.617 --> 00:37:58.378
I've been watching movies since I was zero.

00:37:58.378 --> 00:38:01.699
Like I saw Empire Strikes Back right out of the womb.

00:38:01.699 --> 00:38:05.280
My mom couldn't wait to watch Empire Strikes Back.

00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:09.704
I'm like an infant infant and I'm in the theater watching Empire Strikes Back.

00:38:09.704 --> 00:38:12.224
That's how long I've been watching movies.

00:38:12.304 --> 00:38:15.226
I watch hundreds of movies a year.

00:38:15.541 --> 00:38:23.503
And this is one of the greatest movie moments I've ever experienced, especially in that first crowd that I saw in Silver Spring at the Regal Majestic.

00:38:24.425 --> 00:38:44.161
When, cause what's awesome about it is like, okay, so you've already mentioned the lore and the lore is explained in a short little animated sequence that kicks off the movie, how there are these people who can connect time and space through song, through.

00:38:44.161 --> 00:38:54.746
through art, and this is a film that is about art and the importance of art, and the vitality of art, and how we need art, and art will save us.

00:38:55.806 --> 00:39:13.954
And the moment in this movie when that sequence starts, because we've already heard Miles' voice, Preacher Boy has this incredible voice, that sequence in the car with the guitar, and how that scene isn't even paid off until the mid-credits sequence, in the middle of the credits, like we don't even understand.

00:39:13.954 --> 00:39:17.054
how awesome that seat is until the mid-credit sequence?

00:39:17.054 --> 00:39:17.974
Like, who does that?

00:39:17.974 --> 00:39:19.615
Who pays something off in the mid-credits?

00:39:19.615 --> 00:39:20.996
Not Marvel.

00:39:23.257 --> 00:39:41.414
And so we get to this dance hall, he starts going off, and we hear, you know, Smokes, Lady Love explain the mythology again, and then we get a scene of Delroy Lindo, the old bluesman, you know, explaining.

00:39:41.414 --> 00:39:44.375
the power that Miles, that Preacher Boy has.

00:39:44.655 --> 00:39:54.673
And we hear like, and you know, it can connect the past and we're coming over and we see people from the musicians from the past come into frame and start to perform with Preacher Boy.

00:39:54.673 --> 00:40:02.081
And then we hear her say, and the future and we get this Bootsy Collins guy come in through the electric guitar.

00:40:02.282 --> 00:40:06.503
I burst into tears because I knew where we were going.

00:40:06.503 --> 00:40:11.411
And then we have this musical tour through history.

00:40:11.411 --> 00:40:26.771
all in that dance hall as it magically burns to the ground and the camera goes up, pulls back, and then we see the interlopers observing and lusting over what Preacher Boy has and can do with their little banjos and whatnot.

00:40:26.992 --> 00:40:30.355
God damn, that's movies.

00:40:30.355 --> 00:40:38.440
And what I love is a story that uses its medium to its fullest effect.

00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:46.943
If you adapt Sinners, into a comic book, into a novel, into a stage play, that element changes and you no longer have lose something.

00:40:46.943 --> 00:40:48.461
It's a totally different thing, right?

00:40:48.461 --> 00:40:49.338
Yeah, yeah.

00:40:49.338 --> 00:41:03.617
And Ryan Coogler is showing you what movies can do and it is a glove being thrown down to the ground and calling on other filmmakers to embrace their medium, to tell their stories.

00:41:03.670 --> 00:41:04.338
Well said.

00:41:04.338 --> 00:41:05.367
Well fucking said.

00:41:05.367 --> 00:41:07.911
definitely like ditto everything.

00:41:07.911 --> 00:41:18.391
And here's something that's really important about what you just said too, is that that scene in a less talented filmmakers hands would have flopped.

00:41:18.391 --> 00:41:19.990
Dude, nobody would have come up with it.

00:41:19.990 --> 00:41:21.773
Nobody would have come up with it.

00:41:21.773 --> 00:41:36.673
Yeah, you know, like that that scene is so Ryan Coogler because it just toes that line of like otherworldly and so personal to and again, as you mentioned, like as we as we drift outside, we see we get our very I guess.

00:41:36.673 --> 00:41:48.673
Well, I guess secondly, it's our second look at our villains, but really are sort of, I guess, bridge into act two and where the this conflict was like this is what the movie off.

00:41:48.673 --> 00:41:48.914
Right.

00:41:48.914 --> 00:41:49.173
Yeah.

00:41:49.173 --> 00:41:57.396
And what I think is really important about that particular moment is that up to that moment, we only get really one scene of and I'm spacing his name here really.

00:41:57.396 --> 00:41:58.210
Let me look really quickly.

00:41:58.210 --> 00:42:00.742
It's a Jack O'Connell.

00:42:00.742 --> 00:42:01.293
Jack O'Connell.

00:42:01.293 --> 00:42:01.713
Thank you.

00:42:01.713 --> 00:42:06.108
As Remick, I sort of forgot that this was a vampire movie for a minute.

00:42:06.108 --> 00:42:17.039
And again, to speak on like, This movie is so this movie is, takes so long to get to the thing that the trailer's you.

00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:20.181
And I could see somebody checking their watch.

00:42:20.181 --> 00:42:25.105
don't trust that person because everything leading up to it is gold as well.

00:42:25.545 --> 00:42:28.097
But this is a movie that's about build.

00:42:28.097 --> 00:42:31.820
This is a movie about a character and emotions and you needed that time.

00:42:32.065 --> 00:42:32.425
Yeah.

00:42:32.425 --> 00:42:49.304
And that's, mean, I think that's why like so many people can take something out of this, especially like people from different, you know, communities, because you, when you look at the Irish aspect, when you look at the white aspect, when you look at the black aspect, the Asian aspect, like there's so much here and you're joined by this simple event that's happening in this town.

00:42:49.304 --> 00:42:57.597
But again, like we, as the audience from our time here in the future, we are also invited into this story by the music.

00:42:57.652 --> 00:43:08.675
And I think that's one of the reasons is again, it feels so powerful is because we it is connecting our spirits to this event through the music that preacher voice is singing and it's just again.

00:43:08.675 --> 00:43:09.757
Yeah, it's it's incredible.

00:43:09.757 --> 00:43:20.938
I feel like we should go at least right now like hit the the cast Well, think, no, well, real quick, I just want to say we're talking about this one scene and I think it's extremely important to discuss, you know, how that scene works.

00:43:20.938 --> 00:43:22.751
already we've given Ryan Coogler his flowers.

00:43:22.751 --> 00:43:24.362
We'll talk about the cast here in a moment.

00:43:24.362 --> 00:43:29.704
But I think that we have to discuss the cinematographer, the costume designer and the composer in the scene.

00:43:29.704 --> 00:43:34.128
You know, you've got Autumn Drolan, Arch Paul, Aaron, I think it's how you say that.

00:43:34.128 --> 00:43:37.510
You know, she previously worked with Coogler on Wakanda Forever.

00:43:37.510 --> 00:43:42.688
And then more recently, Brad, I'm curious, did you see the last showgirl with Pamela Anderson?

00:43:42.688 --> 00:43:43.606
I did not.

00:43:43.606 --> 00:43:44.186
No, no.

00:43:44.186 --> 00:43:45.887
Aaron, did you check that one out?

00:43:46.608 --> 00:43:47.688
It's great.

00:43:48.010 --> 00:43:57.797
It's it's sort of a meandering slice of life about a sort of out of think like what would happen if you guys remember the movie Showgirls from the 90s?

00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:00.521
I have seen that many times.

00:44:00.521 --> 00:44:02.001
Me too.

00:44:02.322 --> 00:44:07.623
And imagine if she imagined if that movie just fast forward to 20 years and she stayed in Las Vegas.

00:44:07.623 --> 00:44:08.643
That's what Showgirls is.

00:44:08.643 --> 00:44:09.965
It's like what happens at the end.

00:44:09.965 --> 00:44:10.724
Right.

00:44:10.724 --> 00:44:13.326
And so and it is a beautiful movie.

00:44:13.326 --> 00:44:14.206
Right.

00:44:14.385 --> 00:44:14.806
Ruth E.

00:44:14.806 --> 00:44:19.487
Carter, the calcium designer, also worked the coogler on Black Panther, What Kind of Forever.

00:44:19.487 --> 00:44:24.469
And then I want to give a very, very particular shout out because I think we all can agree movie looks great.

00:44:24.469 --> 00:44:29.150
Everybody looks historically appropriate and also sexy as fuck.

00:44:29.150 --> 00:44:31.737
But Ludwig Gorsan.

00:44:32.561 --> 00:44:35.940
Like, is he in that upper echelon now officially if he wasn't already?

00:44:35.940 --> 00:44:37.831
was already, he already was.

00:44:38.672 --> 00:44:41.110
Absolutely incredible score.

00:44:41.110 --> 00:44:57.664
A score that he actually does kind of like the Carter Burwell thing, like Carter Burwell, you listen to the scores of like Miller's Crossing or True Grit, the Coen Brothers version, where it incorporates traditional music into something new and radical.

00:44:58.425 --> 00:44:59.487
Phenomenal.

00:44:59.487 --> 00:45:04.425
I would also shout out Hannah Beechler, the production designer on this.

00:45:04.425 --> 00:45:11.143
All of these people, with the exception of the cinematographer, have been the crew for Ryan Coogler.

00:45:11.143 --> 00:45:21.021
And once you get in good with Ryan Coogler, Coogler has assembled his team, they're his own Avengers, and they're gonna knock it out.

00:45:21.237 --> 00:45:22.445
Yeah, absolutely.

00:45:22.445 --> 00:45:22.826
Yeah.

00:45:22.826 --> 00:45:28.425
Ludwig already has plenty under his belt with, you he, think he even produced for Jay Z at one point.

00:45:28.425 --> 00:45:36.585
But he also like, mean, you've seen Black Panther, the first one, you know how insane that soundtrack is.

00:45:36.585 --> 00:45:39.025
And I believe that he scored that one as well.

00:45:39.126 --> 00:45:43.532
like he, or the man's already up there, but he did a fucking phenomenal job with this movie.

00:45:43.532 --> 00:45:50.405
prepared to like put course on in like, you know, stop me when, when you'd stop me when okay.

00:45:50.405 --> 00:45:56.688
John Williams, Mark, Silvestri, Sam, Rami, Michael Giacchino.

00:45:58.128 --> 00:45:59.728
he he's in that group, right?

00:45:59.728 --> 00:46:00.969
I mean, Yeah.

00:46:03.110 --> 00:46:04.452
Yeah.

00:46:04.452 --> 00:46:05.251
Yeah.

00:46:05.601 --> 00:46:06.192
okay.

00:46:06.192 --> 00:46:09.164
Aaron, what do you think cast or box office?

00:46:09.164 --> 00:46:10.304
Where do want to go next?

00:46:10.635 --> 00:46:15.012
Let's do box office real quick because I don't know if you know this Chris, but we still have another movie to do.

00:46:15.012 --> 00:46:15.282
All right.

00:46:15.282 --> 00:46:15.922
Let's talk about this.

00:46:15.922 --> 00:46:16.626
I'll speed through this.

00:46:16.626 --> 00:46:17.108
Okay.

00:46:17.108 --> 00:46:20.614
So I know Brad, you don't really care about the box office, right?

00:46:21.096 --> 00:46:21.561
Yep.

00:46:21.561 --> 00:46:21.898
All right.

00:46:21.898 --> 00:46:23.119
Well, it's interesting.

00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:23.940
Okay.

00:46:24.014 --> 00:46:25.396
conversation over here.

00:46:26.679 --> 00:46:27.079
Come over here.

00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:27.920
Come over here to the other side.

00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:29.179
Let's talk for a second.

00:46:29.179 --> 00:46:35.032
Now, I think it's interesting, especially for this kind of movie, because as we spoke on earlier, Minecraft is fucking killing right now.

00:46:35.032 --> 00:46:38.735
And I want this movie to do Minecraft numbers, although it won't.

00:46:38.735 --> 00:46:40.155
And it never was going to.

00:46:40.155 --> 00:46:46.398
I still want this movie to like do well enough where Hollywood and Warner Brothers goes, OK, let's do more of these.

00:46:46.398 --> 00:46:47.097
Right.

00:46:47.097 --> 00:46:54.300
So according to Variety, centers needs to gross about hundred eighty five million worldwide to break even given its 90 million dollar budget.

00:46:54.300 --> 00:46:56.135
That's including marketing as well.

00:46:56.135 --> 00:46:59.748
The Minecraft movie as he spoke about is likely going to win the weekend again.

00:46:59.748 --> 00:47:03.271
Unfortunately, it's projected to get about 45 million dollars in its third week.

00:47:03.291 --> 00:47:06.215
However, centers is looking to earn around 40 million domestically.

00:47:06.215 --> 00:47:08.896
So just behind there are the Minecraft movies.

00:47:08.896 --> 00:47:10.188
However, here's the caveat.

00:47:10.188 --> 00:47:15.282
Minecraft movie is being shown in forty three hundred theaters, whereas centers is only being shown in thirty three hundred.

00:47:15.282 --> 00:47:17.914
So just over a thousand more screens.

00:47:17.914 --> 00:47:19.945
Minecraft has at its disposal.

00:47:20.166 --> 00:47:24.365
Now, here's the really, really interesting part about this whole box office situation is that.

00:47:24.365 --> 00:47:28.365
Since this is the original script and since Kugler has his stock has just been rising.

00:47:28.365 --> 00:47:29.706
I mean, you can say what you want.

00:47:29.706 --> 00:47:32.286
Temperature may vary on Wakanda forever and create three.

00:47:32.286 --> 00:47:34.726
You guys can talk about that with amongst yourselves.

00:47:34.726 --> 00:47:44.806
I'm sure we could have a two hour long episode about those two movies specifically, uh, sort of living in that IP world that Kugler seems to make, you know, poop at it and make gems out of poop.

00:47:44.806 --> 00:47:45.606
Right.

00:47:45.606 --> 00:48:05.380
But what Kugler set up with Warner Brothers and actually what he sort of set up with multiple studios is that he struck a deal or he's a basically put a deal out there for all of these studios and said, if you want to make centers at your particular, you know, studio house, not only do I get final cut rights, so I get to make this movie exactly what I want.

00:48:05.380 --> 00:48:10.262
He gets first dollar gross ownership, which is like Tom Cruise type of ownership.

00:48:10.262 --> 00:48:12.523
Basically he gets a cut of the percentage right out of the box office.

00:48:12.523 --> 00:48:14.224
He doesn't worry about anything else.

00:48:14.884 --> 00:48:22.344
But, and this is the big one here, he regains the copyright to this movie, the ownership of the entire film after 25 years.

00:48:22.344 --> 00:48:29.556
of just what like it's not like an Alan Moore, Dave Gibbon situation where as long as the Warner Brothers keeps printing this movie, they keep the rights.

00:48:29.556 --> 00:48:32.777
No, Ryan gets this movie on.

00:48:32.777 --> 00:48:35.594
I have it here, April 19th, 2050.

00:48:36.197 --> 00:48:39.878
on that Monday, Ryan is going to have a great day.

00:48:39.878 --> 00:48:41.338
And he actually spoke in this.

00:48:41.338 --> 00:48:43.960
said that this was never about power.

00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:46.260
This wasn't about like ownership of the property.

00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:51.561
It was more about like personal symbols, symbolism, and it deals directly with the source material of the film.

00:48:51.561 --> 00:48:52.371
Right.

00:48:52.554 --> 00:48:58.300
We've got a cohesion of an entire cultural movement.

00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:01.603
A piece of art is being appropriated.

00:49:01.744 --> 00:49:04.085
And Kugler definitely took this to heart.

00:49:05.047 --> 00:49:06.088
Awesome.

00:49:06.088 --> 00:49:07.548
Yeah, it's incredible.

00:49:07.851 --> 00:49:11.742
years a novelist what's going on I hope more people do this, honestly.

00:49:11.742 --> 00:49:13.634
want more filmmakers.

00:49:13.634 --> 00:49:14.675
That's the question.

00:49:14.675 --> 00:49:18.175
Not everybody can do this.

00:49:18.356 --> 00:49:22.257
These studios, these corporations, they don't want it to happen.

00:49:22.257 --> 00:49:24.259
And what's been the reaction to this?

00:49:24.259 --> 00:49:29.960
It's been all the panic from all the other executives going like, this is a dangerous precedent.

00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:32.322
Best of luck to anyone trying to get this deal again.

00:49:32.322 --> 00:49:40.286
The reason Coogler got this deal is because Coogler has made a lot of money for a lot of people and they want to keep making money.

00:49:40.588 --> 00:49:46.257
He is as of today, the most commercially successful black director of all time.

00:49:46.257 --> 00:49:50.289
And that's crazy to think because he's barely over 40, you know, like that is insane.

00:49:50.289 --> 00:49:54.103
So he kind of has already that that sort of pull within Hollywood.

00:49:54.103 --> 00:49:56.536
So, Aaron, let's get into the cast.

00:49:56.536 --> 00:49:57.748
It's an incredible one.

00:49:58.126 --> 00:50:01.148
Okay, the cast is as follows.

00:50:01.289 --> 00:50:01.739
Michael B.

00:50:01.739 --> 00:50:07.393
Jordan as Elijah Smokemore and Elias Stackmore, the smokestacks twins.

00:50:07.914 --> 00:50:09.976
This is the one person I'm going to interject with this real quick.

00:50:09.976 --> 00:50:15.219
This is the one person who to me did not fit in this role, did not fit in this movie.

00:50:15.219 --> 00:50:17.280
Hailey Steinfeld as Mary.

00:50:19.603 --> 00:50:20.784
She's great.

00:50:20.784 --> 00:50:25.148
But to be honest, when I looked at her, she like did not fit the bill.

00:50:25.148 --> 00:50:46.012
she doesn't look like you're like, she just didn't feel like she Because she's When she pulls stack in and says like come and steal this pussy like When she goes from that to vamp mode, like the change she does and the body language change, she fucking nails it.

00:50:46.012 --> 00:50:48.014
I loved Hailee Steinfeld.

00:50:48.014 --> 00:50:55.010
Also the scene where after she's gnarled on his neck a little bit and then pops up, she's like, it's not what you think it is.

00:50:55.010 --> 00:50:57.501
you.

00:50:57.501 --> 00:51:04.076
Some of the best lines of this movie, some of the best delivery, adamantly disagree, but this ain't my podcast.

00:51:04.418 --> 00:51:09.010
First off, I'm only saying initially I didn't like her after I saw the movie.

00:51:09.010 --> 00:51:09.800
I loved her.

00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:20.947
So thank you for for for pointing out all the great things that she did to you know, basically, what's the word Chris to bring back her luster for me?

00:51:20.947 --> 00:51:23.628
You know, like her her her her.

00:51:23.710 --> 00:51:25.987
Where where does She heard she had Bumblebee?

00:51:25.987 --> 00:51:26.768
what?

00:51:28.349 --> 00:51:34.159
I think she's she's the secret Trump for what I understand, but that'd be my Don't tell me that stuff.

00:51:34.690 --> 00:51:35.338
Sorry.

00:51:35.338 --> 00:51:36.257
Sorry.

00:51:37.097 --> 00:51:40.478
I think she follows like Ben Shapiro, somebody on Instagram.

00:51:40.478 --> 00:51:41.757
I don't know who does.

00:51:42.458 --> 00:52:18.476
No, was just it was just honestly it was just the I want to say it was the pitch perfect three or some shit she She just didn't honestly like when I when I was like looking at the cast members like she's the only one that Initially didn't really feel like she fit the vibe but when they brought her character in and we understood more about why I I love the fact that she was an outsider, you know I love the fact that she never because that's me like I'm I'm you know, I'm mixed so I know exactly how she feels I know exactly what it feels like to try and have friends in a black community when you, lot of people don't even look at you and think that you're black or you're not black enough.

00:52:18.476 --> 00:52:19.248
Well, she is.

00:52:19.248 --> 00:52:20.329
She's one eighth black.

00:52:20.329 --> 00:52:25.039
That's that's sort of the caveat is that her her father's mother was black.

00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:26.242
No, her father's father.

00:52:26.242 --> 00:52:28.255
was half black is the That's what saying.

00:52:28.255 --> 00:52:29.197
Like I relate to that.

00:52:29.197 --> 00:52:39.362
So I get why like she, she at the end of the day, like she did fit very well into this role because of like her again, she, she did very well.

00:52:39.362 --> 00:52:41.563
Well, I mean, and also sidebar, and it's very important.

00:52:41.563 --> 00:52:43.846
She is also smoking.

00:52:44.027 --> 00:52:48.282
I mean, just just on front frontal look, a beautiful person.

00:52:48.282 --> 00:52:52.516
I will say and and Brad and I actually built Aaron, I love to hear his thoughts.

00:52:52.516 --> 00:53:01.902
She sort of played in my head when when she sort of made that heel turn there halfway through the movie when she attacked stack, sort of gave me like Salma Hayek vibes from from Dustal.

00:53:01.902 --> 00:53:11.382
feel like it's like, you know, as somebody who was there opening day for From Dusk Till Dawn, saw that in the theater and had his mind blown by it.

00:53:11.382 --> 00:53:16.242
Like, I definitely was thinking a lot about From Dusk Till Dawn while watching this movie.

00:53:16.242 --> 00:53:21.481
I was thinking a lot about John Carpenter's The Thing when watching this movie too.

00:53:22.461 --> 00:53:28.762
And yeah, like she serves a little bit of that function, but just in a different way.

00:53:28.887 --> 00:53:31.585
Sex is a weapon is I think kind of what I was thinking.

00:53:31.585 --> 00:53:33.208
The movie is very horny.

00:53:33.208 --> 00:53:39.936
And I think it's horny in a transgressive way and in a compelling way.

00:53:40.536 --> 00:53:41.291
Yeah.

00:53:41.291 --> 00:53:42.655
everybody on the screen has chemistry.

00:53:42.655 --> 00:53:45.635
Everybody.

00:53:45.635 --> 00:53:46.177
Yeah.

00:53:46.177 --> 00:53:46.898
Yeah.

00:53:47.311 --> 00:53:52.077
Miles Caton as our captain as Sammy preacher board more.

00:53:52.264 --> 00:53:53.960
What fucking first roll for him.

00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:54.929
Right.

00:53:55.271 --> 00:54:02.188
His debut buddy guy is older Sammy Moore and you know, in the, the mid credit scene, Jack O'Connell is Remick.

00:54:02.188 --> 00:54:02.509
Okay.

00:54:02.509 --> 00:54:09.465
We need to really, once I'm done doing the, the, the cast, we need to talk about the villain and, and their, their.

00:54:09.565 --> 00:54:10.570
End it on Remick.

00:54:10.570 --> 00:54:13.547
Yeah, could probably end this conversation on Remick just so can get to warfare.

00:54:13.547 --> 00:54:13.797
Yeah.

00:54:13.797 --> 00:54:18.661
So Jack O'Connell is as Remic, one me Mo Saku as Annie.

00:54:18.661 --> 00:54:22.983
Jamie Lawson is Caroline Omar, Benson Miller is cornbread.

00:54:23.438 --> 00:54:24.896
He has not changed.

00:54:24.896 --> 00:54:27.036
He, yeah, he is not changed.

00:54:27.036 --> 00:54:29.188
Delroy Lindo is Delta Slim.

00:54:29.489 --> 00:54:29.768
Man.

00:54:29.768 --> 00:54:30.349
He killed it.

00:54:30.349 --> 00:54:31.170
Delta Slim.

00:54:31.170 --> 00:54:36.032
Like, like Delroy Lindo was amazing in this and yeah.

00:54:36.032 --> 00:54:43.010
Lee Jun Lee as Grace Chow, Yao as Bo Chow and Lola Kirk is Joan, Peter Germanis as Bert.

00:54:43.010 --> 00:54:46.793
Real quick, Brad, do you remember Lee John Lee from Babylon?

00:54:46.860 --> 00:54:53.077
Yes! I heard Babylon was Babylon.

00:54:53.077 --> 00:54:54.423
the one that everybody said was terror.

00:54:54.423 --> 00:54:55.800
Correct, and they're all wrong.

00:54:55.800 --> 00:54:58.414
Babylon Hive, rise up! Babylon.

00:54:58.414 --> 00:54:59.054
Yeah, for real.

00:54:59.054 --> 00:54:59.454
is.

00:54:59.454 --> 00:55:06.153
There's a scene with Margot Robbie in that movie that isn't it's a top five scene of all time where they have to keep redoing it over and over again.

00:55:06.153 --> 00:55:06.634
Yeah.

00:55:06.634 --> 00:55:06.994
Yeah.

00:55:06.994 --> 00:55:07.853
Anyway.

00:55:07.873 --> 00:55:09.505
But Remick, Aaron, you want to talk about Remick?

00:55:09.505 --> 00:55:12.467
Yeah, so I want to talk about, because there's like this interesting juxtaposition.

00:55:12.467 --> 00:55:19.733
Again, we keep talking about the audio of this movie, the composition of this cinematic experience.

00:55:19.733 --> 00:55:30.123
And one thing that was really like such a like a kind of like a contrasting juxtaposition, if that's what you want to call it, is the Irish music that, you know, because the vampires in this movie are Irish.

00:55:30.123 --> 00:55:33.155
well, the one guy's Irish for sure.

00:55:33.155 --> 00:55:34.135
The one guy is.

00:55:34.135 --> 00:55:38.449
And I think this is a very interesting lore.

00:55:39.039 --> 00:55:48.512
idea and the fact that, know, because again, my wife was asking me, why do you think the vampires were, you know, why the original vampire was Irish?

00:55:48.713 --> 00:55:54.364
Well, and there's a couple of things, obviously, Coogler is very much tied into the Irish, like heritage and culture.

00:55:54.364 --> 00:56:12.061
But at the same time, the way that I talked to her about it was we talked about the fact that vampires tend to feed on vulnerable targets, you know, and obviously during this time frame, the black community the Irish community, because obviously this vampire was moving west.

00:56:12.442 --> 00:56:18.766
But in New York, in New England, all that area, there was a lot of Irish immigrants.

00:56:18.766 --> 00:56:27.452
so obviously, they pulling west, they're going to feed on those more vulnerable communities, which are the black communities, which are the...

00:56:27.972 --> 00:56:29.143
Yeah, they punch down.

00:56:29.143 --> 00:56:35.956
so to me, it all was such an interesting, again, bringing together of these different...

00:56:36.469 --> 00:56:42.804
you know, demo, you know, these different demographics that are these marginalized communities, especially at this time and having them kind of.

00:56:44.373 --> 00:56:48.155
It wasn't like they're attacking them, like feeding off of them.

00:56:48.255 --> 00:56:56.998
The vampire's whole idea was to build a community and connect with people because he was unable to die and unable to fellowship.

00:56:56.998 --> 00:57:08.802
And so you don't ever really have, whenever you think of vampires, you generally have this feeling that they're like attacking and killers and wanting to destroy everything where this guy brought almost like this biblical, like Bible thumping idea.

00:57:08.909 --> 00:57:10.780
Not Bible thumping, right?

00:57:10.780 --> 00:57:34.148
Like that's what's so great about the ending of the movie, you know, when Preacher Boy starts to pray, because Preacher Boy's about to die, he's gonna become a vampire, he's gonna be brought into the fellowship, and he starts doing the Deliver Us from Evil thing, and then all the vampires start to mock the Deliver Us from Evil thing back.

00:57:34.157 --> 00:57:35.101
powerful scene.

00:57:35.101 --> 00:57:36.715
Such a powerful scene.

00:57:36.833 --> 00:57:40.045
Remit goes like, yo, these words, I know these words well.

00:57:40.045 --> 00:57:51.737
When I hear them, they bring me comfort now, weirdly, because when the English came and took my father's land, they said these words to me as they killed and stole and did the things that have happened to your people.

00:57:51.737 --> 00:57:53.588
He's trying to relate the preacher boy.

00:57:53.588 --> 00:57:55.798
Like, what you saying, right?

00:57:56.079 --> 00:57:58.039
There's some differences.

00:57:58.679 --> 00:58:05.181
And it's those differences that are prickly and I think take, again, the movie to another thing.

00:58:06.717 --> 00:58:14.322
access that Preacher Boy has to the timeline of humanity through song, through his connection, through art.

00:58:14.322 --> 00:58:17.184
That's what Remick doesn't have.

00:58:17.184 --> 00:58:22.666
And he wants Preacher Boy, because he desperately wants to connect to his timeline.

00:58:22.666 --> 00:58:27.269
He wants to see his people again, and he can't see his people again.

00:58:27.269 --> 00:58:29.351
And he wants Preacher Boy to do that for him.

00:58:29.351 --> 00:58:34.925
So he's going to steal Preacher Boy's gift for his own purposes.

00:58:34.925 --> 00:58:35.525
Yeah.

00:58:35.525 --> 00:58:44.246
You know, it was, it was so, it was such your unusual villain because you, again, this is something that Coogler has done in the past.

00:58:44.246 --> 00:58:46.646
Well, I'm going to say, but especially with like Michael B.

00:58:46.646 --> 00:58:47.666
Jordan is Killmonger.

00:58:47.666 --> 00:58:51.021
Like you have this relatable villain that you almost start to.

00:58:51.021 --> 00:58:52.619
They're having a great time out there in the fire.

00:58:52.619 --> 00:58:53.244
That's all I'm saying.

00:58:53.244 --> 00:58:54.811
Like I wanted to get out there and dance with them.

00:58:54.811 --> 00:58:55.800
That's all I'm saying.

00:58:55.800 --> 00:59:02.929
That again, I'm saying like the alternate scene where you're almost like you're feeling the Irish jig when he's like river dancing out there.

00:59:02.929 --> 00:59:12.085
And I'm just like, this is another great scene because obviously the other thing was it was, was, it was a Remick who was very Jack O'Connell's character was very front and center.

00:59:12.085 --> 00:59:15.349
And it was like, again, Haley Steinfeld in the background, Michael B.

00:59:15.349 --> 00:59:19.802
Jordan, like they weren't the focus in this scene, which is generally what you feel.

00:59:19.802 --> 00:59:20.952
Yeah.

00:59:21.139 --> 00:59:35.103
I'm curious about and what I'm going to need multiple watches to really work my feelings about this out is what's the autonomy of the people who get bit by Remick?

00:59:35.103 --> 00:59:42.235
Because we see Remick controlling his clan, his vamps, actions, motions.

00:59:42.275 --> 00:59:50.925
The first time that the three come to the juke joint and they play the Robin song and they're all in the same movement.

00:59:50.925 --> 00:59:55.505
And then in the dance, you know, he has them all doing river dance.

00:59:55.505 --> 01:00:00.166
In the Bible verse, he has all of them speaking what he's saying.

01:00:00.166 --> 01:00:02.505
They feel what he's feeling.

01:00:02.686 --> 01:00:04.565
And then he's killed.

01:00:04.726 --> 01:00:11.425
And so I'm guessing once he's killed that autonomy is returned to the surviving vampires.

01:00:11.425 --> 01:00:17.746
And so the vampires that are in the mid-credit scene now can act on their own without him.

01:00:17.746 --> 01:00:19.545
so what do you they become?

01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:27.802
feel like they could have already, but there was almost like this high of mine because he was, because they all shared his memories and they shared each other's memories.

01:00:27.802 --> 01:00:31.429
I feel like there was this natural, like almost like we're going to do similar actions.

01:00:31.429 --> 01:00:32.653
We're going to feel similar.

01:00:32.653 --> 01:00:38.833
To me, I see it as a commentary on religion and control.

01:00:40.693 --> 01:00:53.134
Yeah, because while Remick can relate to smoke and stack and we can relate to Remick, we know that there's something that's...

01:00:53.134 --> 01:01:00.373
We can't just join the fellowship of Remick because he's in a dictator position.

01:01:00.893 --> 01:01:02.474
I don't know.

01:01:02.474 --> 01:01:04.110
I'm still working it off.

01:01:04.110 --> 01:01:12.590
You know, we actually we had a similar you were talking a moment ago about how preacher preacher boys doing his prayer at the end and remake is mocking him and saying and saying that it brings him comfort.

01:01:12.590 --> 01:01:21.449
I found a similar moment earlier in the film with it was a Delta or Delta Slim, a preacher boy and stack were all in the car together.

01:01:21.449 --> 01:01:33.856
And he's talking about how he eventually got away from his plantation and how a lot of folks were a lot of people he worked with had been killed and the song that they sang while they were out there and how he went from, you know, near tears.

01:01:33.856 --> 01:01:40.813
it put back in that moment out there in the Mississippi sun to singing and happy.

01:01:40.813 --> 01:01:43.373
But I don't know necessarily fully happy.

01:01:43.373 --> 01:01:45.373
I mean, he was doing the blues, right?

01:01:45.373 --> 01:01:46.074
Right.

01:01:46.153 --> 01:01:51.554
And the blues is channeling your pain and communicating your pain.

01:01:51.735 --> 01:01:52.181
Yeah.

01:01:52.181 --> 01:01:52.943
Right.

01:01:52.943 --> 01:01:58.748
I think that there's a certain amount of satisfaction, maybe not happiness, but there's a satisfaction there in a similar way, Aaron.

01:01:58.748 --> 01:02:02.432
And we'll get into similar vibes in a moment here with Warfare.

01:02:02.432 --> 01:02:05.916
When we're all running, we're doing our sort of, you know, what do they call them?

01:02:05.916 --> 01:02:10.262
like the songs we sing while we're running to keep in beat.

01:02:10.262 --> 01:02:11.873
What's it called, Cadence.

01:02:11.873 --> 01:02:12.114
Thank you.

01:02:12.114 --> 01:02:12.293
Gosh.

01:02:12.293 --> 01:02:12.534
Yeah.

01:02:12.534 --> 01:02:12.905
Running.

01:02:12.905 --> 01:02:13.175
Yeah.

01:02:13.175 --> 01:02:14.130
I like a running.

01:02:14.130 --> 01:02:30.403
The last thing I want to point out before we move on real quick is just the fact that the Transformation that Remick makes throughout the while we see him throughout the fight throughout the film Just the vampires themselves when they do that like, know, and they go into like vampire mode the eyes Everything is so well done with that as well.

01:02:30.403 --> 01:02:31.780
It's very subtle.

01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:32.501
It's very subtle.

01:02:32.501 --> 01:02:41.114
The eyes were just Insanely good like there's that scene where cornbreads out in the woods taking a piss and the only thing you see is Like the eyes in the background.

01:02:41.114 --> 01:02:43.967
It's like And then it's like the scene cuts.

01:02:43.967 --> 01:02:49.293
they also look like the fireflies, like you initially think it's fireflies, but then the eyes stay there a little bit longer.

01:02:49.293 --> 01:02:50.856
So you know that they're a person.

01:02:50.856 --> 01:02:51.597
Yeah.

01:02:51.597 --> 01:03:03.297
So like the and just yeah, the remix transformation to like, you know, he didn't go like full like, you know, don't you think like demon mode, but he's like this, you know, he's got the teeth and the fingers and he's just, I mean, it was incredible.

01:03:03.297 --> 01:03:05.989
The whole movie again, the whole movie incredible.

01:03:06.434 --> 01:03:10.253
All right, we have talked about this movie for an hour now.

01:03:10.253 --> 01:03:12.661
Stay all the way to the finals, finger.

01:03:12.949 --> 01:03:13.550
Yes.

01:03:13.550 --> 01:03:14.172
Yeah.

01:03:14.172 --> 01:03:14.512
Yeah.

01:03:14.512 --> 01:03:16.596
Which we can talk about, I guess, you know, at the end.

01:03:16.596 --> 01:03:17.378
Goal.

01:03:17.378 --> 01:03:22.989
Just tell your listeners to the end, to the very bitter end of the...

01:03:23.277 --> 01:03:24.418
the very end.

01:03:24.418 --> 01:03:26.597
Everybody post and end credit scene.

01:03:27.697 --> 01:03:28.637
Yeah.

01:03:29.418 --> 01:03:32.077
Despite Miles Morales is going to show up in the MCU in the next movie.

01:03:32.077 --> 01:03:33.958
That's what you find out.

01:03:34.538 --> 01:03:37.998
Real quick, a couple quick hitters before we move on to warfare.

01:03:37.998 --> 01:03:39.938
Number one, we have the Choctaw vampire hunters.

01:03:39.938 --> 01:03:41.757
Why didn't we get more of that?

01:03:41.757 --> 01:03:43.057
I more of that.

01:03:43.797 --> 01:03:45.500
More though, Brad, I more.

01:03:45.500 --> 01:03:45.889
guess what?

01:03:45.889 --> 01:03:49.186
If this movie does well, we'll have a whole Sinners universe.

01:03:50.405 --> 01:03:54.541
They'll have a they'll have a Choctaw vampire hunter max show.

01:03:54.958 --> 01:04:05.327
I do feel like this is one of those movies where whatever the box office ultimately ends up doing, if we get sequels or not, we gotta get comics.

01:04:05.688 --> 01:04:07.735
We gotta get Sinner's comics.

01:04:07.735 --> 01:04:08.237
Yeah.

01:04:08.237 --> 01:04:09.097
Yep.

01:04:09.197 --> 01:04:11.297
Which label is DC going to put that on?

01:04:11.297 --> 01:04:12.057
it to be Elseworld?

01:04:12.057 --> 01:04:13.358
Is it going be Black Label?

01:04:13.358 --> 01:04:15.659
Come on, Dark Horse from the 90s.

01:04:15.659 --> 01:04:16.300
There you go.

01:04:16.300 --> 01:04:16.581
There you go.

01:04:16.581 --> 01:04:17.371
All right.

01:04:17.371 --> 01:04:18.485
One last question before we move on.

01:04:18.485 --> 01:04:22.161
Where does this rank in the pantheon of Ryan Coogler films for you guys?

01:04:23.416 --> 01:04:24.025
Number one.

01:04:24.025 --> 01:04:24.731
one?

01:04:24.731 --> 01:04:26.168
Yeah, number one.

01:04:26.634 --> 01:04:30.257
Yeah, it's it's number one.

01:04:30.418 --> 01:04:32.601
It's not like far and away.

01:04:32.601 --> 01:04:33.543
Number one.

01:04:33.543 --> 01:04:39.871
I think Creed is like like a half mile number two and then Black Panther is not far behind it.

01:04:39.871 --> 01:04:42.373
But yeah, this is one.

01:04:42.541 --> 01:04:48.427
I like, for me, I'm like, is this my favorite film of the last five years?

01:04:48.487 --> 01:04:49.309
Maybe.

01:04:49.309 --> 01:04:51.371
Is it my favorite film of the last decade?

01:04:51.371 --> 01:04:52.231
Maybe.

01:04:52.231 --> 01:04:53.922
That's how much I love this damn movie.

01:04:53.922 --> 01:04:54.411
Yeah.

01:04:54.411 --> 01:04:55.666
Let me go through a couple here.

01:04:55.666 --> 01:04:58.592
Top Gun Maverick for centers.

01:04:59.797 --> 01:05:00.739
okay.

01:05:01.217 --> 01:05:04.403
Top Gun Maverick is a badass action film.

01:05:04.403 --> 01:05:06.878
It's got nothing under the surface.

01:05:06.878 --> 01:05:07.668
I love it.

01:05:07.668 --> 01:05:09.130
Great movie.

01:05:09.271 --> 01:05:13.978
It's all about filmmaking and attitude and vibes.

01:05:14.019 --> 01:05:15.722
Sinners is more, man.

01:05:15.851 --> 01:05:16.382
Okay.

01:05:16.382 --> 01:05:18.784
right.

01:05:18.784 --> 01:05:19.643
All right.

01:05:20.164 --> 01:05:20.835
All right.

01:05:20.835 --> 01:05:21.916
thoughts for me.

01:05:21.916 --> 01:05:38.356
I will say an important view at a time where movie theaters are under fire, where there is a lot of othering happening in the world, where, you know, black filmmakers, black folks in Hollywood are not getting opportunities.

01:05:38.356 --> 01:05:48.159
And in the same way that they were maybe only a couple of years ago, only a couple of months ago, an insane an insane accomplishment by Ryan Coogler and co.

01:05:48.159 --> 01:05:48.590
Michael B.

01:05:48.590 --> 01:05:54.161
Jordan will not get nominated for something or will not get nominated for this movie, but he should, in my opinion.

01:05:54.302 --> 01:05:57.664
If nothing else, they should give him best supporting actor just to be funny.

01:05:59.065 --> 01:06:01.467
you know, best cinematography should absolutely.

01:06:01.467 --> 01:06:03.807
mean, again, we're only in April.

01:06:03.807 --> 01:06:15.773
like if Archipel does not get some kind of recognition as, know, one of the greatest or one of the best cinematographers of the year, at the very least, you know, Ruthie Carter should get.

01:06:16.001 --> 01:06:17.226
the costume design.

01:06:17.226 --> 01:06:19.041
I'm just saying this movie deserves its flowers everybody.

01:06:19.041 --> 01:06:20.114
That's all I'm saying.

01:06:20.114 --> 01:06:22.019
It's an absolutely incredible watch.

01:06:22.019 --> 01:06:23.141
Brad, how about you?

01:06:23.211 --> 01:06:25.742
Yeah, I mean, I echo everything you said.

01:06:26.164 --> 01:06:29.186
You know, it's not the type of movie that gets recognition.

01:06:29.186 --> 01:06:38.931
But, you know, I've seen two movies in my life where as I was sitting in the theater, I went, shit, I'm watching a masterpiece.

01:06:38.931 --> 01:06:50.208
this is a film that is going to be talked about for a long time by, you know, the people who are excited about film.

01:06:50.423 --> 01:06:51.215
Yeah.

01:06:51.346 --> 01:06:52.572
Aaron, bring us home.

01:06:53.271 --> 01:06:54.181
Same.

01:06:54.262 --> 01:07:02.126
I went into this movie so unaware of what I was like really going to get and that excited me.

01:07:02.126 --> 01:07:10.849
And then when I was done watching it, I just remember thinking like, this is exactly what I want to feel after a movie.

01:07:10.849 --> 01:07:16.733
This is exactly how I want to feel when something amazing has just been played in front of me.

01:07:16.733 --> 01:07:18.382
And I'm just like, this is incredible.

01:07:18.382 --> 01:07:19.353
This is what...

01:07:20.137 --> 01:07:24.224
must be what people who actually go and watch like the Super Bowl in person feel like.

01:07:24.224 --> 01:07:25.496
Well, when they get a good one.

01:07:25.496 --> 01:07:28.382
That's how Swifties feel when they get to see her live.

01:07:28.958 --> 01:07:29.490
There you go.

01:07:29.490 --> 01:07:30.092
There you go.

01:07:30.092 --> 01:07:30.777
There you go.

01:07:30.777 --> 01:07:34.264
This is how a K-pop fans are when they get to see BTS.

01:07:34.264 --> 01:07:38.695
This is how K-pop fans feel when they just watch their favorite artists on TikTok like every day.

01:07:39.836 --> 01:07:41.938
I will say one more shameless brag.

01:07:41.938 --> 01:07:49.262
The scene where we transition to the the fight scene at the sort of near the third act at the beginning of third act where the vampire.

01:07:49.262 --> 01:07:50.012
God damn it.

01:07:50.012 --> 01:07:53.463
Why did she call them in like that is I guess I could.

01:07:53.824 --> 01:07:54.673
It's like, yeah.

01:07:54.673 --> 01:07:55.605
Yeah.

01:07:57.902 --> 01:08:01.327
Her death though, her death was one of the best.

01:08:01.327 --> 01:08:04.253
When she burned up like that, holy shit.

01:08:04.253 --> 01:08:05.373
That was incredible.

01:08:05.373 --> 01:08:10.344
What a metaphor for sacrificing yourself so that your family may live.

01:08:10.344 --> 01:08:12.085
then the ratio chain?

01:08:12.085 --> 01:08:12.976
Thank you, Brad.

01:08:12.976 --> 01:08:13.786
That's where I was going.

01:08:13.786 --> 01:08:25.081
It went from that 276 one ultra wide to the 143 one of the, know, forced for a story size IMAX screen.

01:08:25.081 --> 01:08:26.881
was immaculate.

01:08:26.881 --> 01:08:28.207
It's immaculate.

01:08:28.207 --> 01:08:29.032
It's not even the right word.

01:08:29.032 --> 01:08:32.300
It's a one in a lifetime type of cinematic.

01:08:32.300 --> 01:08:36.430
It's Ryan Coogler going Christopher Nolan hold my beer Yeah.

01:08:36.470 --> 01:08:46.274
Again, going back to the ownership thing, Christopher Nolan's got to be kicking himself for not thinking of, and I don't know if he thought of it or not, but like the fact that Chris Nolan hasn't gotten this.

01:08:46.274 --> 01:08:51.836
think this deal, like I don't know if this deal would have happened a year ago.

01:08:51.836 --> 01:08:56.117
We're in a really weird place in Hollywood land.

01:08:56.117 --> 01:08:59.497
Things are, you said it's on fire.

01:08:59.497 --> 01:09:00.938
It's crumbling.

01:09:01.219 --> 01:09:07.260
And if you want to maintain it, you really should go see movies like Sinners.

01:09:07.260 --> 01:09:11.333
But you should also go see movies like Black Bag, which made like $5 million.

01:09:11.333 --> 01:09:12.909
It's one of the best films.

01:09:12.909 --> 01:09:14.930
Mickey 17 as well.

01:09:14.930 --> 01:09:15.869
Mickey 17.

01:09:15.869 --> 01:09:21.051
Why aren't folks fucking going out and supporting that also because I'm gonna shut up.

01:09:21.837 --> 01:09:23.132
Aaron wants to move on to warfare.

01:09:23.132 --> 01:09:24.237
He's excited to talk about you.

01:09:24.237 --> 01:09:25.270
I know.

01:09:25.454 --> 01:09:28.591
I'm just, I'm just trying to look at the time and we're like, said, 90 minutes.

01:09:28.591 --> 01:09:29.664
We're at one fucking 10.

01:09:29.664 --> 01:09:31.179
And what are we going to do?

01:09:31.179 --> 01:09:32.180
Warfare in 20 minutes?

01:09:32.180 --> 01:09:33.166
I don't fucking think so.

01:09:33.166 --> 01:09:36.229
Okay, Aaron out of five David Weiner's, when are gonna give centers?

01:09:36.631 --> 01:09:37.573
Five out of five.

01:09:37.573 --> 01:09:39.731
Aaron's first five on the living bar.

01:09:39.731 --> 01:09:40.684
five.

01:09:43.054 --> 01:09:44.234
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

01:09:44.234 --> 01:09:44.734
I love it.

01:09:44.734 --> 01:09:47.694
And he actually told me that as he got out of the theater and I was so happy.

01:09:47.694 --> 01:09:50.390
couldn't hold back that like normally we'd never share that shit.

01:09:50.390 --> 01:09:50.796
I get it.

01:09:50.796 --> 01:09:55.087
But as soon as I walked out, I was like, Hey, man, I got to tell you right now, five out of five.

01:09:56.844 --> 01:10:00.519
High five, Aaron, right through the monitor.

01:10:00.519 --> 01:10:02.082
Five for me as well.

01:10:02.082 --> 01:10:04.264
I don't give out a lot of fives.

01:10:05.527 --> 01:10:06.554
Is that true?

01:10:06.554 --> 01:10:07.689
I don't know.

01:10:08.109 --> 01:10:10.073
I definitely gave a five to this one, though.

01:10:10.073 --> 01:10:13.136
It feels like it's been a long time since I've given a five.

01:10:13.847 --> 01:10:15.708
Brad, five years, Chris?

01:10:15.708 --> 01:10:16.271
Five years.

01:10:16.271 --> 01:10:16.582
years?

01:10:16.582 --> 01:10:18.082
And I've never given a five.

01:10:18.082 --> 01:10:20.475
Yeah, I've given two fives out everybody.

01:10:20.475 --> 01:10:26.975
I've given out one for Top Gun Maverick because Brad, I will, I you know, I know you gave us flowers.

01:10:27.737 --> 01:10:28.963
I saw that five.

01:10:28.963 --> 01:10:32.096
needs to, somebody needs to and I don't have the energy.

01:10:32.525 --> 01:10:33.206
I it to him.

01:10:33.206 --> 01:10:33.985
I gave Top Gun.

01:10:33.985 --> 01:10:37.666
It was an immaculate, equally as incredible viewing experience.

01:10:37.666 --> 01:10:40.750
And then I gave X-Men 9705 as well because.

01:10:40.750 --> 01:10:41.297
That's great.

01:10:41.297 --> 01:10:42.563
I won't fight you.

01:10:44.154 --> 01:10:46.850
I'm going to give just to be the other guy.

01:10:46.850 --> 01:10:49.546
I'm going to give it a very, very, strong 4.5.

01:10:49.546 --> 01:10:53.460
If we did decimals, I would give this a 4.75.

01:10:53.460 --> 01:10:55.050
I'm fascinated.

01:10:55.091 --> 01:10:56.699
I never give 4.5s.

01:10:56.699 --> 01:11:00.113
I give 3.5s, I give 2.5s, I give 1.5s.

01:11:00.113 --> 01:11:09.317
For some reason, I just never could do 4.5 because I never have that like, ooh, the one thing I would change or the two things.

01:11:09.317 --> 01:11:12.377
What's holding you back from the full five?

01:11:12.811 --> 01:11:21.069
You know, I think what it really comes down to, like, again, we've been bragging about this movie for the last hour and 12 minutes.

01:11:21.069 --> 01:11:22.380
It was really, really close.

01:11:22.380 --> 01:11:31.917
I was just talking to my partner a couple hours ago about how I really wanted to give it a five and I was gonna wait until we started discussing this movie to really submit that 4.5 or five.

01:11:31.957 --> 01:11:37.292
And what it really comes down to is there are certain moments in the movie where...

01:11:37.337 --> 01:11:40.378
It feels and I think it comes out in the end credit scene.

01:11:40.378 --> 01:11:44.000
It comes out at the beginning when they sort of give us a little bit of exposition.

01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:51.703
It sounds like there was like a there's a little bit of fat maybe somewhere that could have been trimmed off to include those in a more integral way.

01:11:51.703 --> 01:11:55.944
But the the beginning dump I don't like ever in any movie.

01:11:55.944 --> 01:11:58.085
He doesn't Black Panther 2 and I don't like it.

01:11:58.085 --> 01:12:00.192
And at the end, it's just another 20.

01:12:00.192 --> 01:12:02.046
It's another 15 minutes of the movie.

01:12:03.382 --> 01:12:06.573
Yeah, the end of what?

01:12:08.114 --> 01:12:10.126
the mid-credit scene makes the movie for me.

01:12:10.126 --> 01:12:11.886
That gets me to five.

01:12:12.828 --> 01:12:16.229
And I understand how you feel.

01:12:16.229 --> 01:12:21.131
My first watch, I kind of felt the same way about the opening animation.

01:12:21.672 --> 01:12:24.774
But the way, one, I like that it's animated.

01:12:24.774 --> 01:12:31.018
Two, the way that they then incorporate that animation into the narration.

01:12:31.189 --> 01:12:38.466
in the rest of the movie, I think works so well and you needed that in the beginning to sell that dance hall sequence.

01:12:39.109 --> 01:12:42.561
Yeah, and as we've said, I won't fight you on any of it.

01:12:42.561 --> 01:12:44.581
It's a very, very strong 4.5.

01:12:44.581 --> 01:12:46.895
Like it's so close to a five.

01:12:46.895 --> 01:12:47.274
It's not.

01:12:47.274 --> 01:12:48.175
And who knows?

01:12:48.175 --> 01:12:51.567
Once I watch it again, possibly it could turn into a five.

01:12:51.567 --> 01:12:57.220
But seeing it in 70 millimeter, I felt like if that wasn't an automatic five there, I don't know when it will be.

01:12:57.220 --> 01:13:02.623
But I'm willing to open myself up and see it, you know, try again at some point.

01:13:02.623 --> 01:13:04.524
And again, it's incredible.

01:13:04.524 --> 01:13:06.658
All right, Aaron, you have been excited.

01:13:06.658 --> 01:13:07.390
talk about this.

01:13:07.390 --> 01:13:08.363
why don't we kick it off with you?

01:13:08.363 --> 01:13:14.322
Initial thoughts on the brand new film from Alex Garland and Ray Mendoza, Warfare.

01:13:14.702 --> 01:13:15.623
All right.

01:13:16.333 --> 01:13:18.618
Should we put a disclaimer out real quick as well?

01:13:19.240 --> 01:13:20.101
Go ahead.

01:13:20.168 --> 01:13:22.810
For spoilers or for trigger war?

01:13:22.810 --> 01:13:24.765
Warning is for you specifically.

01:13:25.270 --> 01:13:25.569
Okay.

01:13:25.569 --> 01:13:25.840
Yeah.

01:13:25.840 --> 01:13:28.399
So, I'll, I'll just put this out for the listeners.

01:13:28.399 --> 01:13:51.421
I already kind of briefed, Chris and, Brad about if, if I get a little bit spicy, a little bit too spicy with this, conversation about this movie, because, I will tell you this, like trigger warning for those, for service members, for veterans, for anybody, who may have gone through family members who may have gone through something similar or known of something similar that happened to a loved one.

01:13:51.586 --> 01:14:04.686
This is very much a movie that will trigger that, that will bring up some memories that will make, you know, I'll tell you, like, we'll get into it, but I, were moments where, like, I was like feeling like I needed to reach for like a weapon.

01:14:04.686 --> 01:14:48.390
There were moments where I literally could smell like the, the, the gunpowder and like, I, know, the carbon and, know, it was, it was definitely a I'll tell you the weirdest thing about this movie for me was anyways just to get to the point though the warning was like if I need to I will step away from this interview Or at least take a moment Yeah, yeah, so sorry, know what I meant like again like my brain's kind of messed up because like this this movie is absolutely They're probably one of the one of the closest things to reality like I have ever seen when it comes to a movie about like in Iraq deployment.

01:14:48.610 --> 01:14:54.234
I did not realize because I actually was slightly like a couple seconds late to the movie actually starting.

01:14:54.354 --> 01:15:00.470
And I did not find this out actually until right before we started recording that this was actually this play.

01:15:00.470 --> 01:15:04.983
This happened very close to one of the installations that I was or one of the outputs that I was stationed at.

01:15:04.983 --> 01:15:10.377
It's actually the close to the place where I ran I ran missions there as a truck driver.

01:15:10.377 --> 01:15:17.413
And then as well as that's the place that I got medevac to when I did have an incident where I was required to be metabacked.

01:15:17.413 --> 01:15:20.234
So it definitely is very real.

01:15:20.234 --> 01:15:22.094
It hits very close to home.

01:15:22.213 --> 01:15:24.634
And this is not a for entertainment.

01:15:24.634 --> 01:15:27.413
This is a movie for, it's like a documentary.

01:15:27.413 --> 01:15:29.533
It's like going to watch a documentary in my opinion.

01:15:30.091 --> 01:15:31.792
Very Restrepo-esque, right?

01:15:31.792 --> 01:15:36.305
You're sort of living in, and Restrepo is a really interesting, interesting, not the right word.

01:15:36.305 --> 01:15:45.007
It's a very illuminating documentary from the early 2010s about what it's like to be sort of on a remote base in Iraq.

01:15:45.007 --> 01:15:51.631
And yeah, again, you know, a lot of folks know that listen to the Oblivion Bar, and I are both, we met while we were in the army together.

01:15:51.631 --> 01:15:53.122
We are both veterans.

01:15:53.122 --> 01:15:59.073
You know, as Aaron sort of illuminated there, he has definitely seen a lot more theater than I have, because I've seen none and he's seen some.

01:15:59.073 --> 01:15:59.818
So.

01:15:59.818 --> 01:16:04.920
I was able to go into this movie and sort of view it from the outside because that's me.

01:16:04.920 --> 01:16:10.983
I'm not here to pretend that I've some war torn PTSD riddled a hard ass.

01:16:10.983 --> 01:16:12.613
That's not who I am.

01:16:12.613 --> 01:16:14.444
I got very lucky in my time in the service.

01:16:14.444 --> 01:16:25.188
So, and we talked about it before the recording and I just want to sort of illuminate that for the listener here that when I left the theater, I saw it first.

01:16:25.188 --> 01:16:37.372
I saw it at Adobe theater and you could feel every shotgun blast and every IED go off and The opening scene, is sort of a entry of levity into the movie, all hit you right in the chest as you were watching it.

01:16:37.372 --> 01:16:43.917
But I texted Aaron right after I saw it and went, brother, you need to probably approach this with caution.

01:16:44.037 --> 01:16:46.270
Because Raymond Doza kind of says it perfectly.

01:16:46.270 --> 01:16:51.166
And I'll tie my initial thoughts with this, is that this movie is not here to ask why.

01:16:51.166 --> 01:16:55.207
It is here to show what, like show what happened.

01:16:55.207 --> 01:16:57.349
Like there's no questions being asked with the movie.

01:16:57.349 --> 01:16:58.528
is just.

01:16:58.528 --> 01:17:00.548
a day in the life of these folks who went through it.

01:17:00.548 --> 01:17:03.028
So Brad, how about you?

01:17:03.938 --> 01:17:05.225
How about me what?

01:17:06.447 --> 01:17:07.890
How was your experience?

01:17:08.210 --> 01:17:11.930
experience was intense, probably for different reasons.

01:17:12.710 --> 01:17:17.229
I have no military experience whatsoever.

01:17:18.050 --> 01:17:29.130
I have lived a very soft life and I am grateful to those that have done this service so that I can live such a soft life.

01:17:30.090 --> 01:17:33.771
I saw this film about a month.

01:17:33.771 --> 01:17:37.222
maybe a month and a half before the theatrical release of it.

01:17:37.222 --> 01:17:50.256
I saw it at the Motion Picture Association's office in Washington, DC, which is two blocks from the White House and across the street from the former Black Lives Matter Plaza.

01:17:50.256 --> 01:17:57.548
In fact, they were dismantling Black Lives Matter Plaza as I was walking to the theater.

01:17:57.548 --> 01:18:02.899
And when you go to the MPA to watch a movie, I've seen a few movies there now.

01:18:03.328 --> 01:18:08.359
you are going to watch a movie with the red tie crowd.

01:18:08.399 --> 01:18:14.881
And I saw the film and before the, actually before I saw the film, it's like a cocktail hour.

01:18:14.881 --> 01:18:17.601
They are giving you all the drinks you want.

01:18:17.601 --> 01:18:20.012
They're giving you all the food you want.

01:18:20.012 --> 01:18:21.052
Here's some shrimp.

01:18:21.052 --> 01:18:23.944
Here's some avocado toast.

01:18:23.944 --> 01:18:30.185
Here's an endless fountain of old fashions.

01:18:31.613 --> 01:18:36.136
And then Alex Garland and Ray Mendoza spoke before the film.

01:18:36.136 --> 01:18:39.497
They were there and then they did a Q &A afterward.

01:18:41.198 --> 01:18:47.076
And the theater at the MPA is a great theater.

01:18:47.076 --> 01:18:52.162
I mean, it's amazing in its picture quality and its sound.

01:18:54.478 --> 01:18:58.438
You know, so I knew I was going to watch, and I knew what the movie was going to be.

01:18:58.438 --> 01:19:00.337
So I knew I was going to watch something intense.

01:19:00.337 --> 01:19:09.738
I still didn't really actually know how intense it was going to be and how upsetting it was going to be for this very soft person watching it.

01:19:09.837 --> 01:19:44.430
I went with my buddy Brian and, you know, once the engagement happens and the, you know, the film is real time after the title card and it really does a great job of showing the boredom of being out there and then it does an amazing job of showing you what a sliver of what it might be like to be engaged in combat in this way.

01:19:45.158 --> 01:19:52.654
It is detached from explaining how those boys got into this place.

01:19:52.654 --> 01:19:56.697
Like doesn't really want to talk about the Iraq war.

01:19:58.338 --> 01:20:05.423
But at the same time, I think there might be like two intentions going on between the directors.

01:20:05.423 --> 01:20:09.747
I think Ray Mendoza has one intention and Alex Garland has another intention.

01:20:09.747 --> 01:20:13.989
And I think there is still a lot of political heat in this movie.

01:20:13.989 --> 01:20:17.131
I mean, every choice is a political choice.

01:20:17.431 --> 01:20:26.711
But I think some of Alex Garland's left leanings are revealed in the first few shots of this movie and the last shots of this movie.

01:20:27.632 --> 01:20:32.250
And so, yeah, like, I've never really been in anything like it.

01:20:32.250 --> 01:20:35.944
You know, I've heard people say like it's like the first 15 minutes of Saving Private Ryan.

01:20:36.815 --> 01:20:37.697
No.

01:20:38.881 --> 01:20:40.221
No, it's not.

01:20:40.542 --> 01:20:42.802
It's way more claustrophobic.

01:20:43.064 --> 01:20:45.043
It's way more upsetting.

01:20:45.984 --> 01:20:46.944
Yeah.

01:20:47.445 --> 01:20:50.707
I I mean, it was an incredible experience.

01:20:50.707 --> 01:20:55.569
Again, I said that Sinners was one of the most memorable movie going experiences I've had.

01:20:55.850 --> 01:21:01.572
Buzzed on a few old fashions watching this next to senators and congressmen and stuff.

01:21:02.412 --> 01:21:04.073
Recognizable people.

01:21:04.073 --> 01:21:06.434
Also an extremely memorable experience.

01:21:06.689 --> 01:21:12.795
And I guarantee right after that movie, they went and voted on, you know, cutting more veteran benefits.

01:21:12.795 --> 01:21:14.996
That that sounds about right.

01:21:15.516 --> 01:21:22.721
You know, what's what I think is like what we should really sort of we don't spend too much time because we've already we're already like so far into this episode.

01:21:22.721 --> 01:21:28.576
But this is sort of a great reflection on like post 9-11 cinema and how like right after 9-11 happened.

01:21:28.576 --> 01:21:31.448
And Aaron, you probably will remember this better than than me.

01:21:31.507 --> 01:21:33.760
And actually you too, because you're a little bit older than me as well.

01:21:33.760 --> 01:21:34.560
But like.

01:21:34.583 --> 01:21:41.347
There was this time right after September 11th where everything was that scene from Spider-Man where it's like, you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us.

01:21:41.347 --> 01:21:43.189
You know, like that, it was a lot of that, right?

01:21:43.189 --> 01:21:49.942
American sniper type of cinema talking about, you know, zero dark 30, hey, hoorah, hoorah, go America.

01:21:50.082 --> 01:22:06.390
I think, and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, I think going forward, we have become very aware of not only our role in that war, but also our eventual role in- invading Afghanistan a couple years later.

01:22:07.381 --> 01:22:08.815
Some people have.

01:22:09.331 --> 01:22:09.751
Yes.

01:22:09.751 --> 01:22:10.020
Yes.

01:22:10.020 --> 01:22:12.354
Some of us have some of us haven't.

01:22:12.734 --> 01:22:20.865
And, know, it's going to turn out I think we're going get a lot more of this is what I guess I'm trying to say is that like warfare is where we're heading for this kind of movie.

01:22:20.904 --> 01:22:22.354
I mean, I don't know.

01:22:22.354 --> 01:22:23.085
I don't know.

01:22:23.085 --> 01:22:30.327
And I also know that there has been a lot of complicated reactions to warfare from both sides of the aisle.

01:22:30.327 --> 01:22:36.859
And I think the conversation it creates is maybe even more important than the movie itself.

01:22:37.838 --> 01:22:41.380
But, you know, I would just want people to engage with it.

01:22:41.380 --> 01:22:46.765
I also feel weird that this is a movie that's just gonna play at Tyson's Corner Mall and people are gonna be eating popcorn too.

01:22:46.765 --> 01:22:51.284
And I've seen people online go like, oh man, this is like the best action film I've ever seen.

01:22:51.345 --> 01:22:53.006
And it's like, ah, okay.

01:22:53.405 --> 01:22:55.305
I don't know if that's the lesson.

01:22:55.623 --> 01:22:57.076
That's one thing.

01:22:57.076 --> 01:23:03.054
It's like this is, when my wife and I, went and saw it in a theater I've never even heard of.

01:23:03.054 --> 01:23:04.157
It's something called an I-Pic.

01:23:04.157 --> 01:23:08.194
And it's like they have couches and really amazing food.

01:23:08.194 --> 01:23:09.658
They give you a blankets.

01:23:09.658 --> 01:23:10.921
We have one of those.

01:23:10.966 --> 01:23:12.027
They give you blankets.

01:23:12.027 --> 01:23:12.886
Yeah.

01:23:13.389 --> 01:23:17.311
well, I'll give you a little bit of my, my experience as far as the movie.

01:23:17.311 --> 01:23:27.298
So like, I told you like kind of how it was feeling, you know, it's been, I've actually, like I told Chris and we talked about a little bit on the recent, patron episode of the grid.

01:23:27.529 --> 01:23:38.047
I've been kind of struggling a little bit recently with my mental health because I've actually been opening up a lot more about my experiences, and the incidents that I went through while, while deployed to Iraq.

01:23:38.047 --> 01:23:43.112
And so, probably didn't time a lot of this stuff out correctly.

01:23:43.493 --> 01:23:48.555
But it's been, it was really like, you know, opening that stuff up was kind of like really opening up some old wounds.

01:23:48.555 --> 01:23:53.100
And so going into this movie, like my wife was excellent.

01:23:53.100 --> 01:23:54.961
She was, she kept asking me like, you okay?

01:23:54.961 --> 01:23:55.902
Are you sure?

01:23:55.902 --> 01:23:57.813
Are you sure that you want to see this?

01:23:57.813 --> 01:24:02.567
Like even up to like, you know, being in the theater and sitting down like, are you sure, you know, we can leave.

01:24:02.567 --> 01:24:04.188
And I'm like, no, I'm good.

01:24:06.090 --> 01:24:20.594
so that that whole experience leading up to it was, know, I was very, very aware of myself, my emotions, my thoughts, you know, seeing it in that theater, think made it, because it was like a little pod.

01:24:20.594 --> 01:24:28.895
So I didn't feel like I was sitting in a crowd of people, but there were like a couple of like older people and some, you know, people's and some younger people to my left.

01:24:29.015 --> 01:24:36.518
And I don't think like, really, I don't think anybody like who just goes and picks this movie, like as the movie they want to go see.

01:24:36.981 --> 01:24:38.922
really is is aware of what they're like.

01:24:38.922 --> 01:24:43.984
I don't know if this is being marketed or if like it's being, you know, kind of pitched the correct way.

01:24:44.386 --> 01:24:53.841
You know, I don't think people are walking into this movie thinking like this is something that really happened to to to a few guys and like, you know, or happened to a lot of people in different ways.

01:24:53.841 --> 01:24:56.551
And this is something that I need to be aware of and respectful of.

01:24:56.551 --> 01:24:59.412
Well, now they're going into it like, like it's a fucking action movie.

01:24:59.412 --> 01:25:00.622
Like it's, you know, so.

01:25:00.622 --> 01:25:04.425
This presents our first real issue with the post 9-11 war cinema, right?

01:25:04.425 --> 01:25:11.831
Like part of the reason we keep getting these American sniper type of movies is because they're, these type of movies are generally unmarketable.

01:25:11.831 --> 01:25:14.077
So they have to make these sort of popcorn movies.

01:25:14.077 --> 01:25:15.372
Brad, what do you got there?

01:25:15.890 --> 01:25:17.131
I don't know.

01:25:18.432 --> 01:25:45.015
I think depicting war cinematically, depicting war in any entertainment, you're giving it to an audience and once you make the thing and once you release the thing, you have let go of the thing and you can try to steer it and shape it to reflect how you feel about a concept.

01:25:45.015 --> 01:25:48.009
But an audience is gonna do with it what an audience is gonna do with it.

01:25:48.009 --> 01:25:49.488
True, true.

01:25:49.488 --> 01:25:56.854
And you have to then ask, well, how much responsibility does the filmmaker have to that reaction?

01:25:57.235 --> 01:25:59.797
How much responsibility does the studio have to that reaction?

01:25:59.797 --> 01:26:02.680
How much responsibility does the audience have to that reaction?

01:26:03.542 --> 01:26:07.984
It's kind of up in the air for me.

01:26:07.984 --> 01:26:14.100
And so for me, all I can talk about is what I thought about.

01:26:14.390 --> 01:26:17.372
as I watched this film and what this film did to me.

01:26:17.372 --> 01:26:26.766
And in talking about that, maybe give somebody else some thought to process the movie in their own way.

01:26:26.766 --> 01:26:39.023
You hear, like growing up, like I grew up, in the 80s and 90s, it was all about anti-war films filtered through the Vietnam War.

01:26:39.064 --> 01:26:40.685
You had like two types of war movies.

01:26:40.685 --> 01:26:43.456
You had like the World War II, the Good War.

01:26:43.840 --> 01:26:47.912
And then you had the Vietnam movie, The Bad War.

01:26:47.953 --> 01:26:54.498
And both of those movies, like you watch Apocalypse Now, it's very different from Here to Eternity.

01:26:55.100 --> 01:26:59.430
It's very different from, Platoon's different than Second Private Ryan, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:26:59.430 --> 01:27:12.434
And then sometimes you would start to get some anti-war messaging, filtered into World War II experiences, and you'd watch something like Come and See, or you'd read a book like All Quiet on the Western Front.

01:27:12.622 --> 01:27:22.141
But for me, there's no such thing as an anti-war film because once you put it out in the world, people are gonna, it's gonna be glamorized in just the telling.

01:27:22.141 --> 01:27:30.181
And so I think people are gonna have that experience with warfare and it's on all their other elements in life to.

01:27:30.542 --> 01:27:31.521
deal with it.

01:27:31.521 --> 01:27:32.902
Can I make sense?

01:27:32.902 --> 01:27:34.082
Yeah, it absolutely does.

01:27:34.082 --> 01:27:36.202
But I can I slightly challenge you a little bit.

01:27:36.202 --> 01:27:36.921
Please.

01:27:37.242 --> 01:27:37.962
Warfare.

01:27:37.962 --> 01:27:48.514
Is there even an opportunity to sort of glorify this and make it into like a gore porn, nationalistic Fox News runs air ads for it type of movie?

01:27:48.514 --> 01:27:50.613
there is because I've seen it online.

01:27:50.734 --> 01:27:53.373
I've seen people go, like, oh, this is a badass action film.

01:27:53.373 --> 01:28:01.434
I've seen, you know, like, to me, you know, every kind of human is out there.

01:28:01.434 --> 01:28:03.634
They're all going to react to these things.

01:28:03.634 --> 01:28:08.694
And I think this movie doesn't, what this movie excels at is immersion.

01:28:08.694 --> 01:28:15.073
And I think that's what the Alex Garland side of things was really attracted to with this cinematically.

01:28:15.073 --> 01:28:18.502
He really wanted to put you in the feet.

01:28:18.654 --> 01:28:23.377
and in the hearts and minds of these soldiers.

01:28:26.238 --> 01:28:30.961
you know, extremely successful in that way.

01:28:31.921 --> 01:28:34.903
And movies are empathy machines, to quote Roger Ebert.

01:28:35.524 --> 01:28:43.047
And that's their whole purpose, is to put you in the eyes of somebody else and you explore the world through that lens for how many hours.

01:28:43.748 --> 01:28:52.373
But, you know, You watch that crowd and some people are going to engage with it in a serious way and some people are going to be detached.

01:28:52.373 --> 01:28:56.938
I think that's the other trick with a movie like this is because it's so intense.

01:28:56.938 --> 01:29:01.940
Some people have to disassociate for their own reasons.

01:29:01.940 --> 01:29:08.605
And when they disassociate, they're going to form their own opinion on the thing.

01:29:08.605 --> 01:29:10.077
Will this stop people from...

01:29:10.077 --> 01:29:14.750
All right, I'm going to say something that I found so...

01:29:14.957 --> 01:29:20.740
stricken offensive at the start of this movie at the Motion Picture Association.

01:29:20.740 --> 01:29:34.569
The kind woman who introduced Alex Garland and Ray Mendoza said something along the lines like, we hope when you watch this movie, you come out of it and realize that war should be the last option.

01:29:35.048 --> 01:29:38.970
And they say this too, like the red ties in this room.

01:29:39.572 --> 01:29:43.565
And I'm looking at these red ties, you know, like that.

01:29:43.565 --> 01:29:46.025
They're not gonna come out of way with this and go like, you know what?

01:29:46.506 --> 01:29:51.185
We gotta find a way to end the war between Russia and Ukraine.

01:29:51.185 --> 01:29:52.966
You know, because I've seen this movie.

01:29:52.966 --> 01:29:58.845
You people are gonna come out of this thing and they're gonna probably continue to do the shit that they're gonna do.

01:29:58.966 --> 01:29:59.432
Exactly.

01:29:59.432 --> 01:30:01.025
I'm not gonna change it.

01:30:01.079 --> 01:30:07.132
Some people will be pushed a little bit, maybe influenced a little bit.

01:30:07.132 --> 01:30:09.573
Other people are going to rally around it.

01:30:09.673 --> 01:30:17.497
You know, I think for Ray Mendoza, he said during the Q &A that he wanted this movie to be a bridge between husbands and wives.

01:30:17.497 --> 01:30:23.779
know, husbands come back from conflict and they have trouble communicating their experience.

01:30:24.159 --> 01:30:27.671
Give this movie to a wife, give this movie to a son, give this movie to a father.

01:30:27.671 --> 01:30:30.181
This kind of reflects.

01:30:30.347 --> 01:30:37.278
this experience, and maybe you have some sliver of understanding.

01:30:37.698 --> 01:30:38.877
I like that thought.

01:30:39.057 --> 01:30:42.440
It is, it did, it did that as I can, I can actually say it did that.

01:30:42.440 --> 01:30:48.367
Cause like that's, I was really interested to hear my wife's opinion of it.

01:30:48.606 --> 01:30:55.734
And she, know, cause you know, she, we may not have been married when I was deployed, but we were still like in each other's lives.

01:30:55.734 --> 01:31:04.398
And so, you know, when I asked her about it, she's like, yeah, if I, she's like, if I had seen this and you were like deployed, like this would have destroyed me.

01:31:04.398 --> 01:31:11.177
you know, she's like, basically, and she asked some things and I like, actually brought up some things that I told her about from my experiences.

01:31:11.177 --> 01:31:18.797
Like when I, I could, I'm going to, I'm really like, let you know, I can, I can relate to a lot of the stuff that goes on in this, in this movie.

01:31:18.797 --> 01:31:19.578
And it's crazy.

01:31:19.578 --> 01:31:29.136
Cause like, even the scene like with the, the grenade, like, so I was, you know, if you don't mind me kind of deviating a little bit, so quick before you move on because it deals with this.

01:31:29.136 --> 01:31:32.488
Can I just ask you and lead into what you're about to say?

01:31:34.039 --> 01:31:35.171
How are you feeling up?

01:31:35.171 --> 01:31:37.555
Because there's about 20 minutes of nothing.

01:31:37.555 --> 01:31:38.365
It's just them.

01:31:38.365 --> 01:31:44.984
You're getting used to the characters, meeting the crew, getting a feel for the room, but nothing, no action is happening.

01:31:45.126 --> 01:31:48.180
How are you in those 20 minutes leading up to that grenade?

01:31:49.966 --> 01:31:54.841
Okay, so kind of the best way that I kind of explain this is.

01:31:56.823 --> 01:31:58.154
This is going to sound weird.

01:31:58.154 --> 01:32:00.435
I told, you know, I said the same thing to my wife.

01:32:00.435 --> 01:32:05.338
I said, there's actually a moment, there were a few moments there that I actually felt comfort.

01:32:05.878 --> 01:32:07.493
Like I actually felt comfortable.

01:32:07.493 --> 01:32:13.479
I felt like a little bit of nostalgia because there is a, it is a separate world when you are deployed.

01:32:13.479 --> 01:32:24.373
It is a separate world when you're just with your squad, with your team and you are like in that room with them or you're getting like you're in the vehicle or you're on the bird or.

01:32:24.373 --> 01:32:25.042
year.

01:32:25.042 --> 01:32:28.274
You're in the shit like, or you're just waiting for something to happen.

01:32:28.274 --> 01:32:43.256
Like there is a commonality that spreads across like everybody, you know, and that's honestly, and they say forged in fire, like these relationships that you get, that's, they do such a perfect job.

01:32:43.256 --> 01:32:50.207
Again, I'll tell you, this movie from start to finish is so relatable for anybody that has deployed or worked in the military, whatever.

01:32:50.207 --> 01:32:54.809
It's like you feel like the scene with the water bottle when he spits in the water bottle and the other guy drinks it.

01:32:54.809 --> 01:32:56.600
That's shit that they do that we did.

01:32:56.600 --> 01:33:11.806
We have done because like it is there is a a certain level of brotherhood and camaraderie and even, you know, homoeroticism that creeps into your life when you are in that, that, that shit, when you're stuck with these guys to your left and right.

01:33:11.806 --> 01:33:16.359
And like, you know, it's, they, they nailed it, the feeling of it completely.

01:33:16.359 --> 01:33:20.078
Like again, from the music video, when you're just What an opening.

01:33:20.097 --> 01:33:23.944
What did I- I honestly it's so I've done that I've been there.

01:33:23.944 --> 01:33:24.994
I've been there with my guys.

01:33:24.994 --> 01:33:57.051
We're sitting in a a in a tent Getting mortared from outside the wire and we're all sitting there in our gear and we're watching something stupid on somebody's laptop just because it's the only thing that'll play DVDs Yeah, you know like it's it is exactly like that and then the other thing was as it ramps up into You start seeing the the personnel like the people on the street and you start seeing these things When you see the guy walking by, so you got the sniper who's in his, in his, in his position and he's watching and he's looking at and he's, and he's documenting and he's recalling things up.

01:33:57.051 --> 01:33:58.212
been there.

01:33:58.212 --> 01:34:01.835
I've been on perimeter guard where I've had to call stuff up suspicious activity.

01:34:02.265 --> 01:34:18.969
and then he's like, what, like when you see somebody walking by who was obviously like glancing, you know, at your, at your position, like I'm feeling that, one thing that he didn't call out was when he scanned by that window and there's a flash in the window and that was obviously either or, or, or somebody else's scope.

01:34:20.478 --> 01:34:52.403
That stuff is going to live with me for the rest of my life and I will be able to pinpoint anything like that any moment like you start seeing suspicious activity like that I will feel that like to my soul and then the other thing that was really like I'll tell you this and not to go again too much into the the actual like plot of it before we're ready to I have to say that there's it's the the sign this the the moment where the Over the loud like you sort of start hearing the loudspeakers and they're like calling out and they say that they're calling for jihad They're calling out for the attack.

01:34:53.023 --> 01:34:55.373
That is exactly how they do it.

01:34:55.373 --> 01:34:56.354
I have been there.

01:34:56.354 --> 01:35:05.476
They will use the speakers of the mosque to call out for ways of attack, for ways of suicide bombers, for like, for people to get prepared.

01:35:05.476 --> 01:35:14.810
And like, you'll see when you drive through a town and five minutes ago, you saw crowds of people and now you're in a corner where there is nobody around.

01:35:14.810 --> 01:35:15.729
you're...

01:35:15.832 --> 01:35:17.225
We call it the pucker factor.

01:35:17.225 --> 01:35:21.434
Your asshole puckers up and you get ready for whatever, like anything that can happen.

01:35:21.434 --> 01:35:25.993
Like this movie hits every single step of that in such a realistic manner.

01:35:25.993 --> 01:35:27.404
It is insane.

01:35:27.404 --> 01:35:29.534
Yeah.

01:35:30.095 --> 01:35:31.235
I just want to go back really quickly.

01:35:31.235 --> 01:35:35.097
Call on me at the beginning of this movie was a treat.

01:35:35.097 --> 01:35:37.800
Again, I saw this and this we can get into how we saw this.

01:35:37.800 --> 01:35:41.301
You guys will you already mentioned, but I saw this in Adobe theater and.

01:35:42.021 --> 01:35:47.404
You know, talk about two movies that have created core memories in the theater.

01:35:47.505 --> 01:35:48.206
I don't know.

01:35:48.206 --> 01:35:55.689
You guys can tell me if maybe I'm romanticizing this too much, but seeing that and hearing it in Adobe theater, it really was that.

01:35:56.590 --> 01:36:29.738
sort of like release of tension before like I went in this movie and I sort of knew what it was about but I purposely didn't watch any trailers because I wanted to be completely fresh for this movie but I knew that I was going to be tense because I know a 24 I know Alex Garland and I've been in the military so I know this shit's going to rock me in some way and they say this is based on the memories of this entire squad goes right into fucking Eric, Eric Perez and call on me and it's just bumping and you see the crew and Aaron, as you said, we've all been there in the military.

01:36:29.738 --> 01:36:38.913
We've all been in the situations where we're all just Neanderthal lizard brain idiots and we're all just having, we're just surviving in some way or another.

01:36:39.515 --> 01:36:42.957
That really like let the tension out.

01:36:42.957 --> 01:36:43.268
Okay.

01:36:43.268 --> 01:36:45.559
Let's go in fresh and then over the next.

01:36:47.551 --> 01:36:48.020
really?

01:36:48.020 --> 01:36:48.230
really?

01:36:48.230 --> 01:36:49.020
Okay.

01:36:49.310 --> 01:36:51.190
Ramp my tension up.

01:36:52.112 --> 01:36:54.689
Because I knew what I was going into, right?

01:36:54.689 --> 01:36:59.894
I think what that scene really does a great job of selling is the age of the people who are there.

01:37:00.974 --> 01:37:05.954
reminding us that the people we send off to fight our wars for us are children.

01:37:06.036 --> 01:37:11.697
And like the youth of that scene, I found so sad.

01:37:11.957 --> 01:37:20.350
And when that dance sequence was starting, I was already going into a place that I knew was going to emotionally devastate me.

01:37:20.350 --> 01:37:33.887
you know, like when they are first, you know, cutting to when they start to go out and like the one guy does like kind of like the humping action, you know, like they're goofing off.

01:37:35.609 --> 01:37:40.551
Like, and you know, they're in a neighborhood, they're in these, they date to these people's homes.

01:37:40.552 --> 01:37:43.573
They're, and then they're going to have this conflict.

01:37:44.043 --> 01:37:50.738
where people are going to die and people are going to lose vital pieces of themselves.

01:37:50.880 --> 01:37:54.703
This home is, this neighborhood is gonna be completely destroyed.

01:37:54.703 --> 01:37:56.623
And for what's the purpose?

01:37:56.623 --> 01:37:59.907
Like again, two blocks from the White House.

01:37:59.907 --> 01:38:02.668
know, across the street from Black Lives Matter Plaza.

01:38:02.668 --> 01:38:04.631
What is the point of warfare?

01:38:04.631 --> 01:38:08.474
And that's really what I was thinking about.

01:38:08.474 --> 01:38:13.978
And so like when I saw that scene, like to me that scene was just about like youth, kids.

01:38:14.210 --> 01:38:16.679
Violence, devastation.

01:38:16.863 --> 01:38:18.055
What's the point?

01:38:18.220 --> 01:38:21.572
Growing up in the Midwest, could tell you and Aaron, you joined young too.

01:38:21.572 --> 01:38:25.875
You grew up in the Midwest and everyone in your circle tells you this is a great thing.

01:38:25.875 --> 01:38:27.195
Go serve your country.

01:38:27.195 --> 01:38:29.728
Go protect freedom in quotes.

01:38:29.728 --> 01:38:48.634
And Alex Garland said in the Q &A afterwards, after Raymond Dozer was talking about this being a possible bridge for husbands and wives, fathers and children, that he would also think this could be a good movie for young people to watch.

01:38:49.295 --> 01:38:51.777
when do you make the decision to join up?

01:38:51.777 --> 01:38:53.858
Is it when you're 18 or is it when you're 15?

01:38:53.858 --> 01:38:56.057
Is it when you're 14?

01:38:56.060 --> 01:38:58.217
And maybe this is the movie he would want them to see.

01:38:58.217 --> 01:39:04.953
I would still say that, well, know, a 14 year old has only so much maturity and understanding of life and death.

01:39:04.953 --> 01:39:11.408
you know, would this have an effect on, you know, when you're 14 years old?

01:39:11.408 --> 01:39:12.470
I don't know.

01:39:12.488 --> 01:39:14.413
I don't I don't think so honestly Aaron.

01:39:14.413 --> 01:39:15.689
What are your thoughts there?

01:39:16.646 --> 01:39:18.108
I do not know.

01:39:18.108 --> 01:39:28.537
mean, I think you're so ignorant and naive at that age that you're nothing really like you're, you're not even, you don't even have your own opinion to be dead set into it.

01:39:28.537 --> 01:39:30.297
You know, plus this right here.

01:39:30.297 --> 01:39:32.591
And I'm holding up my cell phone for everybody that can't see me.

01:39:32.591 --> 01:39:36.567
This is all of violence and it's all right here.

01:39:36.567 --> 01:39:40.110
I mean, you scroll through three videos on TikTok and you're seeing war.

01:39:40.110 --> 01:39:42.073
You're really seeing it on your phone.

01:39:42.073 --> 01:39:43.109
You know what I mean?

01:39:43.109 --> 01:39:46.351
I appreciate your, your, your position on that, Brad.

01:39:46.351 --> 01:39:52.275
Like I really do like your, kind of your take on that, on that entry, the introduction into the movie.

01:39:52.756 --> 01:39:58.280
Cause I wouldn't have, you know, I can, I can absolutely see that and I can actually absolutely, absolutely understand that.

01:39:59.301 --> 01:40:09.009
Pretty much I like just like the ending of the movie, like you, like you mentioned the beginning and the end were just like these very much like a commentary commentate of moments.

01:40:10.734 --> 01:40:17.019
But I didn't really think about that entry like that because yeah, like going into, I'm just like, yeah, this is like the calm before the storm.

01:40:17.118 --> 01:40:35.287
This is the moment where you have to find the moments between missions to feel like a human, to feel like a kid, to feel like a friend or to feel like a group of just guys and then our group of soldiers are, cause these are steals I think.

01:40:35.287 --> 01:40:36.141
Yeah, they're sealed.

01:40:36.141 --> 01:40:36.682
Yeah.

01:40:36.682 --> 01:40:37.685
No, I'm sorry.

01:40:37.685 --> 01:40:39.889
It's Delta Force, I think.

01:40:39.970 --> 01:40:41.940
I thought Raymond Dozen was a Navy SEAL.

01:40:42.827 --> 01:40:45.310
no, sorry, Charles Melton and his crew are Delta.

01:40:45.310 --> 01:40:46.403
This is Navy SEALs.

01:40:46.403 --> 01:40:46.762
You're right.

01:40:46.762 --> 01:40:47.532
Sorry.

01:40:47.532 --> 01:41:04.342
And so, you know, again, and that's, you know, I've worked with seals, I've worked with, with, you know, special, special forces and they're, they're shitheads just like we are majority of the time, just when it's, when it's, when it's time to get down to business, it's, it's business time.

01:41:04.342 --> 01:41:10.516
So, I know, I appreciate, I appreciate you sharing that Brad, cause that was, that's, you know, I like that.

01:41:10.516 --> 01:41:12.792
I don't like it, but I, I relate to it.

01:41:12.792 --> 01:41:14.662
Can I add a little commentary to that as well?

01:41:14.662 --> 01:41:20.908
Because again, I think part of the reason why I felt reprieved there and I hate, I hate that my brain is hardwired this way.

01:41:20.908 --> 01:41:29.993
But while watching that and knowing that these folks are having a great time and knowing that some of them, if not most of them are going to eventually not make it through the end of the movie.

01:41:30.835 --> 01:41:32.355
We signed up, didn't we?

01:41:33.396 --> 01:41:36.878
You know, and Aaron, you, you can, I can, know you can attest to this.

01:41:36.878 --> 01:41:43.115
We are the only country in the world that has a military full of people who, folks who sign up on the dotted line.

01:41:43.115 --> 01:41:45.338
No one's making us do this, you know?

01:41:45.338 --> 01:41:47.771
So, you know, it's not, mean, yeah, you're right.

01:41:47.771 --> 01:41:52.095
It's not necessarily, it's not, it's definitely encouraged, right?

01:41:52.791 --> 01:41:56.054
I think there's a lot of factors into why people sign up.

01:41:56.054 --> 01:41:58.695
And like, I think everybody has a different factor.

01:41:58.695 --> 01:42:05.037
But I just think, you know, there's lots of systems and places that direct us as Americans.

01:42:05.037 --> 01:42:06.420
strongly incentivized, right?

01:42:06.420 --> 01:42:10.867
Like I only went to the military because I needed free college and I got it, right?

01:42:10.867 --> 01:42:14.372
Aaron, if I remember correctly, you can totally add to this.

01:42:14.372 --> 01:42:15.944
I think yours was just direction, right?

01:42:15.944 --> 01:42:18.568
You just needed something to do after high school, right?

01:42:18.989 --> 01:42:20.363
was living in my car.

01:42:21.127 --> 01:42:21.658
Yeah.

01:42:21.658 --> 01:42:28.112
So, mean, and it's a lot of folks that are like that, you know, it's again, again, Brad, as you said, it's a lot of young.

01:42:28.112 --> 01:42:30.783
I'm not looking to like take your free will from you.

01:42:30.783 --> 01:42:34.065
You know, like you all have free will.

01:42:34.065 --> 01:42:39.689
know, but I think, you know, some people have more options than other people.

01:42:41.551 --> 01:42:48.998
Okay, let's get down to the minutia here because you know, we've been talking about this for almost 30 minutes now and haven't really got to like the details of it all.

01:42:48.998 --> 01:42:52.511
Aaron, do want to talk about sort of the synopsis, I guess?

01:42:53.770 --> 01:42:54.323
Yeah.

01:42:54.323 --> 01:42:56.966
Give me one sec.

01:42:58.881 --> 01:42:59.163
Yeah.

01:42:59.163 --> 01:42:59.537
OK.

01:42:59.537 --> 01:43:00.338
Sorry.

01:43:02.605 --> 01:43:08.501
So this is a movie based on Mendoza's experience, Ray Mendoza's experience during the Iraq war as a US Navy SEAL.

01:43:08.501 --> 01:43:15.275
This film is a reenactment of an encounter he and his platoon experienced on November 19th, 2006 in the wake of the Battle of Ramadi.

01:43:15.556 --> 01:43:21.800
To maintain historical accuracy, the film's material is exclusively taken from the testimonies of the platoon members.

01:43:21.800 --> 01:43:23.186
I find that really interesting.

01:43:23.186 --> 01:43:24.208
Do you guys?

01:43:24.297 --> 01:43:28.180
Yeah, I think it's interesting that they're using the word accurate, right?

01:43:28.180 --> 01:43:29.122
Correct.

01:43:29.282 --> 01:43:33.426
Because it is memory and how accurate is memory, not that accurate.

01:43:33.426 --> 01:43:39.831
But what memory is, is authentic, you know, to a person's experience.

01:43:39.831 --> 01:43:48.438
so I think this does feel like an extremely authentic telling of these incidents cobbled together by all these people's memories.

01:43:48.438 --> 01:43:54.970
But I love how Mendoza and Garland really sell you on, like it is memory.

01:43:54.970 --> 01:44:08.643
And again, you know, talking about this Q &A, they really wanted you to know, like, this is not fiction, this is not a documentary, it's based on memory and memory is memory.

01:44:08.643 --> 01:44:10.024
It's not true.

01:44:10.715 --> 01:44:15.878
They say like, you'll always forget what someone says, but you'll never forget how it made you feel.

01:44:15.979 --> 01:44:18.430
And I feel like that's this movie and sort of a nutshell.

01:44:18.430 --> 01:44:21.252
Like the names don't really mean much.

01:44:21.252 --> 01:44:39.264
It's about what again, Aaron, as you said earlier, the smell of the gunpowder, the, you know what, the, the feeling that I got was at one point when one of them is carrying the other, I could smell like, remember that plastic, the way that like, like the, the bulletproof vest smelled like plastic and your, your Kevlar.

01:44:39.264 --> 01:44:40.826
I kept smelling that during all that.

01:44:40.826 --> 01:44:42.085
then I was on a 50 cal.

01:44:42.085 --> 01:44:43.658
Aaron, think you were on a 50 cal at one point.

01:44:43.658 --> 01:44:46.551
It has a very particular, like the grease has a smell.

01:44:46.551 --> 01:44:49.586
know, it's just all the humvee.

01:44:49.586 --> 01:44:54.109
Like it all has this very particular smell that came rushing back to me while watching this movie.

01:44:54.765 --> 01:45:09.525
Yeah, it's, uh, there's so much to this movie that, that is little details and that's, you know, again, the, the caked on dirt after the explosion of like blood, it's, you know, it's very accurate.

01:45:09.525 --> 01:45:13.514
The, That's for Miller, the sniper.

01:45:13.677 --> 01:45:14.358
Yeah.

01:45:14.358 --> 01:45:29.478
So, and then, you know, just again, seeing, the movements, seeing the struggle, seeing the moments, the explosions, the, even the, the, the, the tink, tink, tink, the ricocheting of the, the small arms fire.

01:45:29.637 --> 01:45:53.819
Um, you know, like I said, I know we, we haven't gotten really into the deep of it, but like, you know, this movie, this movie plays out just so everybody is, if you haven't seen it yet, you know, I'm sure a lot of people haven't seen it yet, but you need to go see it or you should go see it just to be aware of, you know, what we're talking about, but This movie follows them as they're preparing to break down this outpost that they've taken over this house for because it is basically an overlooked point in the middle of the city.

01:45:53.819 --> 01:46:09.189
And that's what they do is these, you know, the, the, the, the seals would go from, from location to location, basically combing through and making sure that they were available to either overlook, overwatch and find, you know, the, the most wanted, you know, so to speak.

01:46:09.189 --> 01:46:17.086
And so these guys are part of a I don't really know what their elements are called in the seals, but you have this one crew.

01:46:17.086 --> 01:46:25.865
Then you have another one that is not too far away and they all have the same overlook, which is there that it's a drone or it could be like, I mean, it might be a mandra.

01:46:25.865 --> 01:46:27.485
I'm pretty sure it's an unmanned drone.

01:46:28.525 --> 01:46:29.105
Yeah.

01:46:29.105 --> 01:46:31.645
The display of force that was an F 14, I believe.

01:46:31.645 --> 01:46:34.826
And so they have, they have overlook.

01:46:34.826 --> 01:46:40.666
They have, you know, air, air support, but it's spread out amongst these different groups of them.

01:46:40.666 --> 01:46:46.345
and, what you hear over the radio and you know, lot of people may not understand this.

01:46:46.345 --> 01:47:08.822
If you don't have the experience, this is a complex coordinated attack that is being carried out by the Taliban or Al Qaeda, whoever, you know, is in that area at that time against these elements that have been scouted out who are supposed to be there in, you know, the, Yeah, I think it was Iraqi insurgents, like insurgents is the...

01:47:08.822 --> 01:47:09.101
Yeah.

01:47:09.101 --> 01:47:10.902
Because I don't think it's Taliban.

01:47:11.148 --> 01:47:13.338
Yeah, so it be the Al Qaeda then.

01:47:14.100 --> 01:47:17.403
And they were, because this is pre-ISIS.

01:47:19.145 --> 01:47:26.250
But yeah, so this is a complex coordinated attack that hits each of these elements individually at the same time.

01:47:26.490 --> 01:47:35.157
And it is incredibly well done with what the enemy at that time was able to do coordinated wise.

01:47:36.118 --> 01:47:38.480
It's because they didn't give a shit about their own people.

01:47:38.480 --> 01:47:47.372
It's because they didn't give a shit about there, like a lot of the talent, like you'll see, like they start clearing people out, but like they really go all in.

01:47:47.372 --> 01:47:53.284
Yeah, I mean, I don't have any room to talk about that.

01:47:55.447 --> 01:48:00.590
You know, all I can talk about is from the movie's perspective.

01:48:01.091 --> 01:48:05.712
And it doesn't have any access to the opposing force.

01:48:05.712 --> 01:48:13.417
We have the family in the house and we don't really spend much time with them either.

01:48:14.634 --> 01:48:23.277
I don't want to get into a political discussion of why we were in Iraq at that time, post 9-11, and the value of being there.

01:48:23.277 --> 01:48:32.719
But my takeaway of watching it was, it just all seemed for nothing.

01:48:32.719 --> 01:48:35.430
Why do these people no longer exist?

01:48:35.430 --> 01:48:40.761
Why does this person no longer able to walk?

01:48:42.305 --> 01:48:43.882
was the value.

01:48:44.354 --> 01:48:46.284
Yeah.

01:48:46.284 --> 01:48:51.599
The cost reward ratio is, was not there because, that was the other thing was the transparency in the mission.

01:48:51.599 --> 01:49:04.878
You know, you have a lot of, especially with, especially with Afghanistan and again, not to get into too deep of a place, especially Afghanistan is you have much like me, much like Chris, you did serve during that time.

01:49:04.878 --> 01:49:09.532
You made up that not a deploy, but you did serve and you did support the mission during that timeframe.

01:49:09.532 --> 01:49:22.411
But there are a lot of people who are questioning What was the point of us going there and spending so much time and so much energy and losing so much life for it not to have changed or not feel like it's changed at all?

01:49:22.411 --> 01:49:23.722
Like what was the point?

01:49:23.722 --> 01:49:25.645
What was the price?

01:49:25.645 --> 01:49:26.447
What was the cost?

01:49:26.447 --> 01:49:27.788
What was the reward?

01:49:27.788 --> 01:49:29.511
Because Two words.

01:49:29.511 --> 01:49:31.573
Dick Cheney.

01:49:32.818 --> 01:49:33.509
That's what it was.

01:49:33.509 --> 01:49:41.492
mean, I know it's probably a more nuanced conversation we could be having there, but Dick Cheney wanted to.

01:49:41.492 --> 01:49:42.626
That's why we were there.

01:49:42.626 --> 01:50:05.255
Well, real quick, just before, yes, I definitely want to let me, I don't know if we need to get into that, but just real quick, all I to say is there's, there is a difference between like the junior enlisted and like the people who are on the ground, you know, and them just simply asking that question versus the people who may have had that answer at that time or all the answers at the time.

01:50:05.496 --> 01:50:10.710
I think I'm more asking from the perspective because there are, there are people who have come and gone.

01:50:10.710 --> 01:50:19.515
out of the military who served during that time, who deployed multiple times, who still do not have a clear answer of that, who do not have a clear understanding of it.

01:50:19.515 --> 01:50:25.461
And I'll say like, you know, I will never talk down about my time in the military.

01:50:25.461 --> 01:50:31.744
Some of the things that I did that I was, you know, that like our mission, like I didn't fully understand that was me as a child.

01:50:31.744 --> 01:50:33.787
That was me as a, as a young man.

01:50:33.787 --> 01:50:45.362
You know, I cannot, I cannot go back and justify or like really like, speak to the things that I just know that I was a guy who joined the army, who was sent overseas to do a job.

01:50:45.362 --> 01:50:48.353
did my job and luckily enough I came home.

01:50:50.054 --> 01:51:05.938
But, know, there are a lot of angry, especially with Afghanistan, with, again, it just, doesn't, we went and we left and it doesn't feel like, the, the, the, the, Conflicts over there have been going on for longer than we've been a country.

01:51:05.938 --> 01:51:14.305
They've been going on for longer than many religions have been around and we're not going to go over there and change it with democracy, especially with forced democracy.

01:51:14.786 --> 01:51:16.478
we can't do democracy either.

01:51:17.006 --> 01:51:21.985
But, And this is, again, this movie's in Iraq, not Afghanistan.

01:51:23.405 --> 01:51:46.176
And yeah, I think where I have trouble with warfare is in its detachment from the larger story, in wanting to tell such an immersive story, in wanting to put the audience in the experience of these people, in these...

01:51:46.274 --> 01:51:56.216
combatants, these American combatants, the movie gives up the larger themes.

01:51:56.216 --> 01:52:03.377
so, and therefore any audience member can really put their politics and their point of view into this movie.

01:52:03.618 --> 01:52:08.340
And I think that's where it gets a little dangerous.

01:52:08.960 --> 01:52:27.359
I think for me, the final shots of the decimated street and the Iraqi soldiers coming out and also the Iraqi family coming out, having gone through this experience, says a lot politically.

01:52:27.359 --> 01:52:31.840
Why do we end with them and not with the boys, the American boys?

01:52:32.720 --> 01:52:36.231
I think there's something there, but there might not be enough there.

01:52:37.061 --> 01:52:48.784
I would argue with that because, I do see what you're saying, but I would argue with because it's such a isolated moment in time.

01:52:49.265 --> 01:53:02.269
But at the same time, you're still like, if you were to take your mind out of who you were, your experiences, opinions, and put you just in this moment, this isolated, collected moment, and that's all you had.

01:53:02.269 --> 01:53:06.438
You had nothing but the mission, nothing but your boys around you.

01:53:06.438 --> 01:53:08.139
Nothing but your survival.

01:53:08.139 --> 01:53:09.920
Nothing but your weapon.

01:53:09.979 --> 01:53:11.001
Like that's it.

01:53:11.001 --> 01:53:15.764
You are completely isolated in this moment and nothing else matters.

01:53:15.764 --> 01:53:16.744
And that's what you get.

01:53:16.744 --> 01:53:26.011
You get these guys and this experience, but you also get the same experience, like you said, from the family members and the, the, the enemy that are the enemy combatants.

01:53:26.011 --> 01:53:41.770
Now I think that that's where kind of the power lays is because it's almost imitating the mindset of the soldiers and the service members that go into it without that full big picture and still have to focus on just survival.

01:53:41.770 --> 01:53:46.853
doesn't matter anything outside this moment, this place, this time.

01:53:47.341 --> 01:53:48.381
The definitely sells that.

01:53:48.381 --> 01:53:50.981
That is what the movie is trying to do.

01:53:52.261 --> 01:53:57.261
I just know that most of the people who are watching this movie are the people voting, right?

01:53:57.261 --> 01:53:58.681
Yeah, hopefully voting.

01:54:00.322 --> 01:54:09.502
And I want people watching this also to be thinking beyond that moment too.

01:54:09.862 --> 01:54:14.761
And I wish we got more time with the Iraqi family.

01:54:17.605 --> 01:54:25.697
I don't necessarily need more time with the Iraqi soldiers, but at the same time, we never get that story either, ever.

01:54:26.158 --> 01:54:28.202
Those movies don't get made here.

01:54:28.202 --> 01:54:30.354
We're not interested in watching those films.

01:54:30.354 --> 01:54:33.880
We're not interested in paying the budgets of those movies.

01:54:33.880 --> 01:54:34.643
Imagine that.

01:54:34.643 --> 01:54:36.206
Imagine if that came out.

01:54:36.206 --> 01:54:36.966
Right.

01:54:36.966 --> 01:54:39.586
I would love to watch it.

01:54:39.881 --> 01:54:43.212
I would watch it, imagine the backlash that.

01:54:43.212 --> 01:54:44.417
Yeah, yeah.

01:54:44.417 --> 01:54:45.693
that's what I'm saying.

01:54:45.693 --> 01:54:48.060
We don't have that because of that, you know.

01:54:48.954 --> 01:54:52.818
But I keep, think the moment with the family though is, is, is super powerful.

01:54:52.818 --> 01:54:58.502
Like even as a service member, like it, to me, just that finite moment because it does leave you.

01:54:58.502 --> 01:55:11.252
So what, what Brad is, is, is, is referring to is there's a scene, the final scene, once the actual team is, is, is successfully medevac, because the first attempt is, is very unsuccessful.

01:55:11.412 --> 01:55:17.409
once they are medevac and they've, they've left this home, just devastated this whole city block is just.

01:55:17.409 --> 01:55:19.811
demolished because of these tanks.

01:55:19.811 --> 01:55:28.438
The family walks out and it's the mother and the father and they're like, or it's like, you know, they're comforting each other and you know, like they're saying, are they gone?

01:55:28.438 --> 01:55:28.837
Are they gone?

01:55:28.837 --> 01:55:29.358
They're gone.

01:55:29.358 --> 01:55:30.118
You're safe.

01:55:30.118 --> 01:55:30.939
It's okay.

01:55:30.939 --> 01:55:31.539
You're safe.

01:55:31.539 --> 01:55:32.701
They're gone.

01:55:32.701 --> 01:55:49.703
And you would think that they are talking about the enemy, like some, some person that came in and invaded their home and invaded their house and like held them hostage because you like when you, when you're like an American who's taught the way we are, You look at these guys and you think, they're taking care of them.

01:55:49.703 --> 01:55:50.984
they're keeping them safe.

01:55:50.984 --> 01:55:54.904
they, actually jump on them when the bombs are about to explode.

01:55:54.944 --> 01:55:58.806
But no, like this family, they are captive.

01:55:59.106 --> 01:56:03.448
They are, they are, they are, they are maybe safe, but they're not.

01:56:04.969 --> 01:56:06.609
Yeah, they're not.

01:56:07.010 --> 01:56:13.091
They're alive, but they're not, they, don't, they don't see this, this Iraqi family.

01:56:13.353 --> 01:56:16.792
They don't see us as the saviors that we think we are.

01:56:16.792 --> 01:56:17.523
Correct.

01:56:17.523 --> 01:56:19.935
They're only in that situation because we were there.

01:56:19.935 --> 01:56:21.326
were f****g there.

01:56:21.407 --> 01:56:21.886
Yeah.

01:56:21.886 --> 01:56:22.337
Yeah.

01:56:22.337 --> 01:56:26.871
Like that whole situation was antagonized by us being in that, in that center.

01:56:27.453 --> 01:56:30.194
I will say really quickly, and then we can move on.

01:56:30.335 --> 01:56:35.820
I just keep going back to Raymond Nosa saying that this movie is not interested in discussing the why, but the what.

01:56:35.820 --> 01:56:37.442
I find that just so powerful.

01:56:37.442 --> 01:56:41.229
And I think Brad, that may slightly answer a little bit of your question.

01:56:41.229 --> 01:56:45.149
But that's what I'm saying is maybe a little dangerous.

01:56:47.989 --> 01:56:59.086
For a younger person or the mall crowd, do they come away continuing to otherize?

01:56:59.086 --> 01:57:01.509
Sure, Yeah.

01:57:01.509 --> 01:57:04.351
Okay, Aaron, talk about the cast.

01:57:04.351 --> 01:57:10.518
And I will say that like, these are our next generation of Hollywood male stars, right?

01:57:10.518 --> 01:57:15.604
Like who Aaron is about to list off, this is 10 years from now, our biggest movie stars.

01:57:15.604 --> 01:57:17.916
Five years from now, five years from now, actually.

01:57:18.786 --> 01:57:18.996
Okay.

01:57:18.996 --> 01:57:26.431
So you got Joseph Quinn as Sam, the L the LPO or the, the platoon officer.

01:57:27.814 --> 01:57:34.578
the DeFarro wound a tie as Raymond Dodas, Raven, excuse me, Raymond Doza, a communicator.

01:57:34.578 --> 01:57:36.069
He's the J tech.

01:57:36.069 --> 01:57:42.265
and that's the, I want to say it's like the, the, coordinates the, air to ground assault.

01:57:42.265 --> 01:57:43.065
Yeah.

01:57:43.416 --> 01:57:44.546
Will Poulter is Eric.

01:57:44.546 --> 01:57:46.347
He's the OIC, the officer in charge.

01:57:46.347 --> 01:57:50.230
Cosmo Jarvis as Elliott Miller, a corpsman, lead sniper.

01:57:50.511 --> 01:57:52.774
Kit Conner is Tommy, a gunner.

01:57:52.774 --> 01:57:58.637
Michael Gandolfini as USN, the United States Navy Lieutenant McDonald.

01:57:59.078 --> 01:58:01.801
Charles Melton is Jake, assistant officer in charge.

01:58:01.801 --> 01:58:04.762
Ben Bennett as John, another JTAC.

01:58:04.762 --> 01:58:08.445
And then Taylor John Smith as Frank, another sniper.

01:58:09.014 --> 01:58:11.996
You know, of the cast again, that is excellent.

01:58:11.996 --> 01:58:19.189
I think this movie changes in some significant way when Charles Melton shows up on screen, like he's in the beginning of the movie.

01:58:19.189 --> 01:58:22.449
But when he's there and his team get there to help, obviously there's an air.

01:58:22.449 --> 01:58:23.596
We've all met guys like this.

01:58:23.596 --> 01:58:25.310
We're all like, I just rub some dirt on it.

01:58:25.310 --> 01:58:29.623
You'll be all right when this when you've got Joseph Quinn with two broken kneecaps.

01:58:29.804 --> 01:58:34.315
But like Charles Melton, he has this presence in the movie that I think is like.

01:58:34.315 --> 01:58:40.229
He like I firmly believe this and I think I already thought of it before when he was what's the Netflix movie?

01:58:40.229 --> 01:58:45.061
May December from last year that Charles Belton is a he's a bona fide star.

01:58:45.061 --> 01:59:03.467
This guy is like I think he's Timothy Charlemagne in three years kind of kind of Joseph Quinn of course you know as we said he's he's sort of on a run right now of course with Fantastic Four coming out in a couple of months he was in the Quiet Place movies he was obviously in Stranger Things.

01:59:03.467 --> 01:59:10.372
So like he's big, then, know, Will Poulter, his second 824 movie in one month, he was also in Death in a Unicorn.

01:59:10.456 --> 01:59:13.711
them days apart or weeks apart I guess.

01:59:14.673 --> 01:59:17.197
It was like, I love that.

01:59:17.559 --> 01:59:20.390
Will Poulter is, he is our next chameleon.

01:59:20.390 --> 01:59:22.270
He's our next Swiss army knife in Hollywood.

01:59:22.270 --> 01:59:24.042
He can play so many things.

01:59:24.404 --> 01:59:25.824
Adam Warlock.

01:59:25.824 --> 01:59:27.445
He's Adam Warlock.

01:59:27.907 --> 01:59:28.287
Yeah.

01:59:28.287 --> 01:59:32.649
Just an incredible cast of you guys, of this cast.

01:59:33.190 --> 01:59:37.634
again, I think my pick is probably Charles Melton or possibly Cosmo Jarvis.

01:59:37.634 --> 01:59:39.435
Those two are like real standouts for me.

01:59:39.435 --> 01:59:42.728
Who in this film, Brad, was someone you really, really like seeing?

01:59:42.765 --> 01:59:45.225
I mean, I loved all of them.

01:59:45.225 --> 01:59:47.546
I thought they were all extremely good.

01:59:47.586 --> 01:59:57.725
I don't think there was necessarily a standout for me because they felt as real as a movie can get.

01:59:59.865 --> 02:00:06.345
And I felt so connected to them.

02:00:07.086 --> 02:00:08.640
And yeah, like...

02:00:08.640 --> 02:00:11.121
Yeah, I can't hand pick one person over another.

02:00:11.121 --> 02:00:15.592
I said, Will Poulter, seeing him in this and then seeing him in Death of a Unicorn.

02:00:15.810 --> 02:00:19.164
I think that guy's a genius actor.

02:00:19.164 --> 02:00:20.195
can do it all.

02:00:20.195 --> 02:00:22.396
But they're all extremely good.

02:00:22.516 --> 02:00:24.457
There's nobody dropping the ball at this.

02:00:24.822 --> 02:00:25.181
Right.

02:00:25.181 --> 02:00:28.265
And I think what you're feeling is the goal of the movie, right?

02:00:28.265 --> 02:00:29.345
I think that's what they wanted.

02:00:29.345 --> 02:00:30.287
They wanted these.

02:00:30.287 --> 02:00:34.831
I mean, they have a couple of big names, but I think it's even been said by possibly Garland.

02:00:34.831 --> 02:00:39.551
He says that like every actor in this movie, whom they all, they all got matching tattoos together, by the way.

02:00:39.551 --> 02:00:42.476
I don't know if we, if you guys have heard of this, but they all felt this camaraderie.

02:00:42.476 --> 02:00:47.720
This film was shot over only five weeks, but they were together every single day, you know, creating this movie.

02:00:47.921 --> 02:00:56.305
They are one unit, very similar again, Aaron, as you mentioned earlier, when you're in military, there is this boundless camaraderie that you can literally get nowhere else.

02:00:56.305 --> 02:01:02.900
And we're not trying to sound like gatekeepers here, but when you're in that shit, man, there's only one way to do that and you have to be in it.

02:01:02.900 --> 02:01:03.740
Aaron, how about you?

02:01:03.740 --> 02:01:05.641
Is there someone that sort of stands out to you?

02:01:07.645 --> 02:01:16.970
I think, I mean, Joseph Quinn and Will Poulter, like, mean, but I, I, I want to like, you know, I want to echo what you both said.

02:01:16.970 --> 02:01:24.313
Like this, this is a group of guys that just, it just felt like there was a connection.

02:01:24.313 --> 02:01:27.934
There's this connective tissue between all of them that was invisible.

02:01:29.935 --> 02:01:36.448
but yeah, like I think Will Poulter, when he gets injured and you like, he's just like, checks out.

02:01:36.448 --> 02:01:54.636
can't breathe and he kind of checks out like, was just, yeah, he, I'm, I'm incredibly impressed with Will Poulter's like story arc as, as a person, as an actor, like he's done some incredible, incredible things in his, in his career already.

02:01:55.277 --> 02:02:01.003
one just, I was gonna say from what I understand, Will Poulter really wanted to work with Alex Garland because he's a pacifist.

02:02:01.003 --> 02:02:03.266
He's like no war ever, bad deal.

02:02:03.266 --> 02:02:04.458
Don't want to touch it.

02:02:04.458 --> 02:02:08.085
But he wanted to work with Alex Garland so badly that he decided to take the role.

02:02:08.085 --> 02:02:10.228
And again, I think the film is better for it.

02:02:11.021 --> 02:02:13.515
So I mean, I'll just leave it that like, think they were all incredible.

02:02:13.515 --> 02:02:21.833
This whole, I was, I was locked in from moment one and on each of these characters.

02:02:21.833 --> 02:02:28.547
Cause I felt like, again, I could relate and I've, I've worked with guys, even the guy that came in and was like stepping on people's legs.

02:02:28.547 --> 02:02:29.091
what saying.

02:02:29.091 --> 02:02:30.686
We've all we've all been with that guy before.

02:02:30.686 --> 02:02:32.975
Yeah, you know And my wife was like, what was his deal?

02:02:32.975 --> 02:02:34.677
And I said, he's just an asshole.

02:02:34.677 --> 02:02:35.637
jacked up.

02:02:35.637 --> 02:02:40.939
just, he thinks that everybody can just rub dirt on it you're like, he's the who, who raw guy, right?

02:02:42.180 --> 02:02:45.060
there's, I think it's worth mentioning too.

02:02:45.081 --> 02:02:49.221
you know, Glenn Fremantle was the sound designer on the film.

02:02:49.221 --> 02:02:50.582
He's, he's Oscar winner.

02:02:50.582 --> 02:02:51.382
did gravity.

02:02:51.382 --> 02:02:54.358
He's done a lot of films with Alex Garland here recently.

02:02:54.358 --> 02:03:00.515
He Garland's first film was, which was the beach, ex Machina great a 24 film, annihilation.

02:03:00.515 --> 02:03:00.885
Of course.

02:03:00.885 --> 02:03:01.164
Great.

02:03:01.164 --> 02:03:10.341
Another a 24 film with the men and then more recently, a weirdly similar sort of movie in a lot of ways, Civil War from last year.

02:03:10.601 --> 02:03:11.765
So, yeah.

02:03:11.765 --> 02:03:27.890
One thing I wanted to, I want to kind of point out was like, not only is the use of sound in this movie so incredibly well done, but the use of silence in moments was just, it's one of those things where you just, it's a, excuse me, it's a thunderous like silence.

02:03:27.890 --> 02:03:32.805
just feels like it's going to like, because that's the problem is when things get quiet, that's when things get scary.

02:03:32.805 --> 02:03:38.529
Like, you know, and again, like kind of like when we were talking about Sinners just a few minutes ago.

02:03:38.815 --> 02:03:42.380
It's, you you'd rather face the devil, you know, than the devil you don't.

02:03:42.380 --> 02:03:47.627
And when it gets quiet before an attack and you know, something's getting ready, like that's, that's terrifying.

02:03:47.627 --> 02:03:48.940
That's fucking terrifying.

02:03:48.940 --> 02:03:49.663
Yeah.

02:03:49.663 --> 02:03:50.890
No score.

02:03:51.274 --> 02:03:52.074
No score.

02:03:52.074 --> 02:03:53.034
Yeah.

02:03:53.296 --> 02:03:58.810
besides call on me and I think there was, right.

02:03:58.810 --> 02:04:00.993
Nobody wrote anything for this.

02:04:01.003 --> 02:04:05.197
Yeah, the last song of the movie was significant.

02:04:05.197 --> 02:04:06.155
I'm trying to find out.

02:04:06.155 --> 02:04:23.630
Dancing in Blood by Lowe was the last song of the movie, which, yeah, I think sets the tone and sort of cements this movie for what it is, which is again, a moment in history that is unexplainable and horrendous and no one wins and happy times everybody.

02:04:23.630 --> 02:04:24.739
Let's end this thing.

02:04:24.739 --> 02:04:26.530
We've been over two hours here.

02:04:26.572 --> 02:04:30.323
Final thoughts, Brad, on warfare.

02:04:30.445 --> 02:04:41.506
You know, great, complicated, so glad I watched it, a movie I won't be forgetting anytime soon.

02:04:41.826 --> 02:04:44.086
And yeah.

02:04:45.323 --> 02:04:47.835
I'll end I'll let Aaron you end it here.

02:04:47.835 --> 02:04:55.918
You know, what an incredible episode for us, you know, us three folks to get together and talk about these two movies again.

02:04:56.319 --> 02:05:07.105
Sorry, Brad, you said earlier that and when I said that we're on fire right now, I meant like this moment in movie history, we're on fire because you've got movies like warfare and and know, centers coming out.

02:05:07.105 --> 02:05:08.646
It feels like movies are back.

02:05:08.646 --> 02:05:09.327
Movies are back.

02:05:09.327 --> 02:05:10.347
Minecraft movie.

02:05:10.347 --> 02:05:14.529
It's Yes, really.

02:05:14.829 --> 02:05:17.789
Steven Soderbergh, again, one of the better movies of the year.

02:05:17.789 --> 02:05:19.569
I think it's number four for me.

02:05:19.569 --> 02:05:27.770
But anyway, point being is that this experience is, as you said, Brad, it cannot be replicated.

02:05:27.770 --> 02:05:34.149
It will not be forgotten as someone again, who has not experienced what these folks have and what Aaron has.

02:05:34.149 --> 02:05:37.989
You know, it feels so real.

02:05:38.949 --> 02:05:49.355
You know, it's sort of lost words like I don't really have anything else to say besides an incredible viewing experience, visceral, I think can be said about this movie and centers, right?

02:05:49.355 --> 02:05:53.127
Like I felt something, even though it wasn't necessarily a good feeling.

02:05:53.127 --> 02:05:56.259
I think when I go to the movies, all I want is to feel something.

02:05:56.259 --> 02:06:02.822
And again, you mentioned it, Brad, Roger Ebert, you know, famously said these film is a empathy machine.

02:06:02.822 --> 02:06:11.225
And I don't think you can realize what people that are in the military understand what they go through unless you see something like this.

02:06:11.244 --> 02:06:13.065
So, Aaron.

02:06:14.082 --> 02:06:14.542
Yeah.

02:06:14.542 --> 02:06:24.287
mean, I, think that movies like these as, uncomfortable as they might be in, moments or in specific times in people's lives.

02:06:24.287 --> 02:06:34.152
I think movies like these are absolutely necessary because you know, much like we're doing now we're three people with very different backgrounds, very different origin stories.

02:06:34.152 --> 02:06:44.097
And we're able to discuss it and talk about it and even come to terms with, you know, the fact that you may believe it's about something else or we like it because of this reason or whatever political alignment, whatever.

02:06:44.097 --> 02:06:46.578
I felt bad in centers, all these things.

02:06:46.578 --> 02:06:47.578
She was bad in sinners.

02:06:47.578 --> 02:06:48.288
Let me finish.

02:06:48.288 --> 02:06:49.020
Can I finish?

02:06:49.020 --> 02:06:49.939
No.

02:06:50.761 --> 02:06:53.804
so I just think, mean, this is a movie that gets people talking.

02:06:53.804 --> 02:07:06.954
It gets people thinking about, you know, the consequences of war, the, the implications of war and who, who at the end of the day is left, you know, to settle the bill.

02:07:07.576 --> 02:07:30.398
And as somebody who has lost people overseas as somebody who's been through moments like this and who have, who have I'll be honest, like there were moments where I was in the, like, I was in the theater, like crying, like emotional and, and, you know, it was difficult to hear that, like the screaming, like in the background, because like that happens.

02:07:30.398 --> 02:07:49.817
Like if you get, you know, when people get injured, when you, like you have, again, I'd say that I felt moments of calmness and clarity while I was in this movie, even though there was all this stuff going on and normally it would overwhelm me, but that's something that I've actually, I've lived through and I've dealt with and it's almost comfortable.

02:07:49.817 --> 02:07:53.287
And that's, that's, that itself can be a little bit scary to my, to me.

02:07:53.287 --> 02:07:56.460
And it just shows me like stuff that I need to work through.

02:07:57.220 --> 02:08:09.056
But from where I've, where I came from to where I am now, being able to sit in the theater and watch this and, you know, talk about it is to me, I'm, I can see the progress that I'm making.

02:08:09.056 --> 02:08:21.873
So movies like this are necessary, but they're also important conversations like Brad, the fact that you brought up that Mendoza wants us to be a bridge between spouses and children and parents.

02:08:21.873 --> 02:08:23.734
that's absolutely true.

02:08:23.734 --> 02:08:29.113
That's as somebody who again has spoken to many veterans, Chris, you spoke to many veterans as somebody who's been through it.

02:08:29.113 --> 02:08:35.274
I don't realize the things that I don't talk about because I'm not comfortable with or because I don't think that people want to hear.

02:08:35.274 --> 02:08:38.213
Nobody wants to hear about some of these things.

02:08:39.453 --> 02:08:43.814
But sometimes you need to share with people around you.

02:08:44.152 --> 02:08:46.693
so that they can understand what you've been through.

02:08:46.693 --> 02:08:49.934
And this doesn't apply to just people who have been traumatized by war.

02:08:49.934 --> 02:08:51.765
This is about anything.

02:08:51.765 --> 02:08:57.287
Sharing your own time, but it is important to share with your family so they can understand and relate and be there with you.

02:08:57.287 --> 02:08:59.948
So this movie was incredible for me.

02:09:00.009 --> 02:09:12.561
It was an experience and it was something that brought me a little bit, I would say almost a little bit of comfort and understanding of who I was and what I've gone through, which I'm really trying not to make that not sound egotistical.

02:09:13.189 --> 02:09:18.270
I think that's like, it's important to feel seen, you know?

02:09:18.270 --> 02:09:25.358
It's important to have stories that you can point to and go like, I went through something like this.

02:09:25.826 --> 02:09:26.666
Yeah.

02:09:27.108 --> 02:09:27.469
Yeah.

02:09:27.469 --> 02:09:28.318
I mean, and that's true.

02:09:28.318 --> 02:09:30.493
It's like, really haven't had that opportunity.

02:09:30.493 --> 02:09:36.323
And this movie really is one of the first ones that I've actually been able to say like, yeah, this is this I, I relate to this film.

02:09:36.323 --> 02:09:37.625
Like I was there.

02:09:38.768 --> 02:09:39.804
And figuratively.

02:09:39.804 --> 02:09:40.925
Isn't that the value though?

02:09:40.925 --> 02:09:41.145
Right?

02:09:41.145 --> 02:09:50.332
Like as you said, sometimes it's hard to talk about, but movies like this, what's better than showing, you know, it may not be exactly what you went through, but it's pretty close, you know?

02:09:50.332 --> 02:09:56.136
And again, as you said earlier, it was tough, but you actually went through it back there behind us.

02:09:57.198 --> 02:09:58.309
So you got through this too.

02:09:58.309 --> 02:10:01.320
And I'm, I'm, very happy and proud of you, my friend, that you were able to do it.

02:10:01.320 --> 02:10:03.662
I was happy that you were able to get in there and see it.

02:10:03.662 --> 02:10:06.765
Cause I was nervous when I got out of there for you to see it.

02:10:07.297 --> 02:10:13.377
but I'm glad that you at least had, I won't say a pleasurable time, but you at least saw the value in it.

02:10:13.377 --> 02:10:13.729
So.

02:10:13.729 --> 02:10:22.305
Yeah, I'm extremely thankful for my support circle that I have and everybody that was like, you know, especially like Carly, like she was, she was incredible.

02:10:22.305 --> 02:10:24.837
Like before, during, and after the movie.

02:10:24.837 --> 02:10:34.902
you know, she, the fact that we went to a place and had dinner and had like a good day beforehand, you know, was, was definitely something that like eased me into it, you know?

02:10:34.902 --> 02:10:43.408
So I'm incredibly lucky for the support that I had going into this and, and it made it, it made it, easier process.

02:10:44.184 --> 02:10:53.083
Well, you I wasn't going to say this, but as a black vampire, I had a lot of trouble getting through centers and I think this is probably a good time to discuss that.

02:10:53.083 --> 02:10:54.666
We could go another hour if you guys want.

02:10:54.666 --> 02:10:58.229
We could do another 45 minutes or so if that's OK.

02:10:58.523 --> 02:11:02.220
All night long, I got nothing on schedule.

02:11:03.082 --> 02:11:03.603
I'm kidding.

02:11:03.603 --> 02:11:20.543
Okay, Aaron since you ended us here out of five David A whiners real quick bread, you know who David A whiner is He's director of in search of darkness in search of tomorrow those four Yeah, he's great.

02:11:20.543 --> 02:11:21.564
He's been on the show a couple times.

02:11:21.564 --> 02:11:32.512
He's a he's a dear friend of the oblivion bar different that I wish want to know what we should reach out to him and see if he can record a clip for us about his opinions of sinners.

02:11:32.622 --> 02:11:34.782
Yeah, he is like a horror aficionado.

02:11:34.782 --> 02:11:37.502
So I think he would, um, which we didn't really talk about.

02:11:37.502 --> 02:11:40.242
We can talk about another time, but is centers a horror film?

02:11:40.242 --> 02:11:40.902
Yes.

02:11:41.564 --> 02:11:42.854
Is warfare a horror film?

02:11:42.854 --> 02:11:43.554
Yes.

02:11:43.554 --> 02:11:44.435
Yes.

02:11:44.516 --> 02:11:44.936
Yes.

02:11:44.936 --> 02:11:46.121
That was an easy yes for me.

02:11:46.121 --> 02:11:47.814
I wasn't sure about centers, but I think you're right.

02:11:47.814 --> 02:11:48.015
Yeah.

02:11:48.015 --> 02:11:48.916
I think it is.

02:11:49.453 --> 02:11:51.983
You know, boy, let's talk.

02:11:51.983 --> 02:11:55.213
I got 45 more minutes to talk about genre.

02:11:55.213 --> 02:11:56.314
Let's go.

02:11:57.373 --> 02:12:00.032
Aaron out of five David wires, what are you gonna give warfare?

02:12:00.855 --> 02:12:02.746
I'm going to give it a 4.5.

02:12:02.774 --> 02:12:03.448
Okay.

02:12:03.448 --> 02:12:04.279
Same.

02:12:06.113 --> 02:12:07.234
4.5.

02:12:07.234 --> 02:12:09.337
Same question to you both.

02:12:09.337 --> 02:12:11.019
The point five.

02:12:11.400 --> 02:12:12.984
What's the point five?

02:12:12.984 --> 02:12:22.984
For me, again, Brad, as you said earlier, you're a little perturbed about the, just the show and not the tell.

02:12:23.345 --> 02:12:25.195
And you know, not every film has to tell, right?

02:12:25.195 --> 02:12:32.590
But I think a lot of films should have at least a direction, a slight message, maybe a couple messages.

02:12:32.590 --> 02:12:33.698
I think, yeah.

02:12:35.083 --> 02:12:37.447
And don't know if this movie is interested in that.

02:12:38.342 --> 02:12:39.606
Yeah, sorry.

02:12:39.606 --> 02:12:40.680
I asked a question.

02:12:40.680 --> 02:12:41.823
I'll you answer.

02:12:41.823 --> 02:12:43.199
This is not my podcast.

02:12:43.199 --> 02:12:44.150
No, it's okay.

02:12:44.150 --> 02:12:45.230
I like it.

02:12:45.371 --> 02:12:48.813
It's just, it's one of those things where I enjoy myself.

02:12:48.813 --> 02:12:50.014
It was a visceral experience.

02:12:50.014 --> 02:12:51.335
Everything was about right.

02:12:51.335 --> 02:12:54.416
But there was just, and it's so very similar to centers.

02:12:54.416 --> 02:12:58.478
It's just a small part of me that just wanted a little bit more what I was getting.

02:12:58.559 --> 02:13:00.179
And I believe in a levy.

02:13:00.179 --> 02:13:08.684
I want movies to cut it off before it's too much, but there was enough space there where I'm like, just give me, give me 10, 15 minutes more.

02:13:08.684 --> 02:13:12.587
Tell me what you're trying to say here, Mendoza slash Garland.

02:13:12.587 --> 02:13:16.932
slash Kugler, but it's pretty great.

02:13:16.932 --> 02:13:18.565
It's a strong four point five.

02:13:18.565 --> 02:13:19.296
OK.

02:13:19.435 --> 02:13:20.251
Eric.

02:13:20.251 --> 02:13:24.680
I'm actually glad that Chris said that first because I'm changing my answer to a five.

02:13:24.967 --> 02:13:26.466
Two fives in one episode.

02:13:26.466 --> 02:13:27.927
We got two fives.

02:13:27.927 --> 02:13:33.543
Ken, I'm happy you changed your answer, but could you still like kind of work through the point five?

02:13:33.543 --> 02:13:35.605
Is it because it's not a fun time?

02:13:36.242 --> 02:13:37.181
No.

02:13:37.231 --> 02:13:46.805
so to be honest, I think I was a little bit, I was a little bit hesitant to give it a five only because I was so excited about how good Sinners was.

02:13:46.805 --> 02:14:00.588
And also I didn't know, I wasn't sure how I necessarily felt about this movie and it's, and it's like, it's just, it's simplicity in a place and time.

02:14:01.229 --> 02:14:37.494
But I think that talking through it and kind of like, understanding like how this movie is set with like the initial like again the initial calm before the storm the video going through like like building everything up into the actual attack and then what it brought out me and then the actual like the final moments of them getting out of there the relief and then the family that almost silence at the end and the use of sound like I think all of that together kind of like talking through it and then hearing Chris kind of like think, you know, because he said he wouldn't have minded a little bit more.

02:14:37.494 --> 02:14:50.538
And then I thought about the fact that in the past, there's been a few movies where they've had this moment where it's just an unnecessary moment of them kind of spoon feeding what it all meant to the audience.

02:14:50.899 --> 02:14:56.871
And honestly, I think that one of the most powerful things about this movie is the fact that it doesn't spoon feed you what it all meant.

02:14:56.871 --> 02:15:02.572
Because to be honest, we as a country, we as soldiers and we are we as service members.

02:15:02.636 --> 02:15:07.087
And we as a lot of civilians are still struggling to figure out what it all meant at the end of the day.

02:15:07.087 --> 02:15:09.509
And so I think that this really speaks volumes.

02:15:09.509 --> 02:15:12.850
And for that, put, you know, I was like, why am I not giving this a five?

02:15:12.850 --> 02:15:17.372
Because it's gonna live, it's gonna live with me for a long time, just like everything else that I carry with me.

02:15:17.372 --> 02:15:21.993
This movie is gonna be one that I will come back to for sure.

02:15:23.341 --> 02:15:27.561
Brad, I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're above a 4.5.

02:15:27.561 --> 02:15:28.518
Am I right?

02:15:28.546 --> 02:15:30.296
No, I'm a four.

02:15:30.296 --> 02:15:32.028
Okay.

02:15:32.770 --> 02:15:35.671
I think it's a fantastic movie.

02:15:36.912 --> 02:15:47.600
Why I don't have a five is a reflection of my concern and confusion of how this film is interpreted by others.

02:15:48.101 --> 02:15:55.878
And I think the power of this movie is in its distance and its immersion, the two of those things.

02:15:55.878 --> 02:15:57.529
And I think if you were to...

02:15:57.546 --> 02:16:19.184
overly explain and pull out a little bit, you would lose something that is trying to communicate that sliver of understanding of what it must be like for people who went through this experience from this side of things.

02:16:19.184 --> 02:16:29.694
But again, when I see people responding to it like a Call of Duty game, I go, Maybe it shouldn't have been as subtle.

02:16:30.094 --> 02:16:30.565
I don't know.

02:16:30.565 --> 02:16:35.638
So right now I give it that four because of that concern slash confusion.

02:16:36.479 --> 02:16:41.051
But there's no denying it's artistry and it's emotional core.

02:16:41.889 --> 02:16:55.370
You know, I think there's something to be said about the area of growth with the sort of again, subtlety that you're saying sort of the the sitting on a fence, you know, like as you said earlier, I totally agree.

02:16:55.370 --> 02:17:01.244
Garland is totally a leftist and wants to put that in his work and super subtle ways.

02:17:01.405 --> 02:17:08.489
And I think Mendoza is sort of I don't know what his political linemen are, but I would imagine that he wanted this movie again to be about the people.

02:17:08.489 --> 02:17:08.853
So like.

02:17:08.853 --> 02:17:10.625
Yeah, that's exactly right.

02:17:10.625 --> 02:17:15.117
Mendoza says it's not a political movie, which I don't think is a thing.

02:17:15.117 --> 02:17:18.487
But from his perspective, it's not a political film.

02:17:18.487 --> 02:17:28.752
It's honoring the memory and honoring his friend who lost so much in this moment and wanting to be that bridge.

02:17:28.752 --> 02:17:30.782
And I think that is so important.

02:17:30.782 --> 02:17:34.084
And I wouldn't take anything away from that.

02:17:34.084 --> 02:17:37.695
But I also know Garland is a leftist.

02:17:38.242 --> 02:17:42.882
I was just watching him on GQ talking about him being super leftist.

02:17:44.043 --> 02:17:52.505
And I think there are elements in there that he sprinkles in that are there, but you gotta be watching this movie.

02:17:52.505 --> 02:18:00.968
And if you're a 15 year old kid, second screening it, you're gonna miss those things too.

02:18:00.968 --> 02:18:03.609
like, that's, I don't know.

02:18:03.609 --> 02:18:06.729
Like, it could be a five star next week.

02:18:07.381 --> 02:18:11.200
I know it was great and that's why I gotta give it four stars.

02:18:11.406 --> 02:18:15.226
You know, I still just, this is the last thing I'll say before we can end the show.

02:18:15.286 --> 02:18:20.745
I am just, I'm so bewildered by anyone who would find glory in this movie at all.

02:18:20.745 --> 02:18:23.064
This is so not, it's even.

02:18:23.064 --> 02:18:28.270
But Chris, you're living in America right now, Yeah, I know.

02:18:28.270 --> 02:18:33.611
I've been saying that for the last 12 years.

02:18:33.611 --> 02:18:34.593
Yeah.

02:18:34.593 --> 02:18:35.805
I just don't get it.

02:18:35.805 --> 02:18:40.700
This is like, there's no like, there's no Chris Kyle hurt locker moment in this movie.

02:18:40.700 --> 02:18:46.007
No one pop, you you don't have Will Poulter with two M4s in his hands popping off in the air.

02:18:46.007 --> 02:18:48.740
Like, what's his name?

02:18:48.740 --> 02:18:50.121
And Thor Ragnarok?

02:18:52.504 --> 02:18:53.663
You're talking about.

02:18:55.099 --> 02:18:57.778
but that's Carl Irving's character.

02:18:57.778 --> 02:18:58.588
Yeah.

02:18:58.861 --> 02:19:09.521
You know, like I've seen and know that you could watch this movie and go like, fuck you Iraqis at the end of this, you know?

02:19:09.581 --> 02:19:14.852
Like go America and, you know.

02:19:16.471 --> 02:19:24.013
If that's how you feel go go touch grass as my and again, I this is not my leftist speaking This is my realist speaking.

02:19:24.013 --> 02:19:47.159
This is someone who like sees what is on screen and again, I'm I'm literally speaking to no one right now because I would imagine most people listening and especially you to understand what this movie was at least attempting to say or or dancing around even but gosh I think what's compelling about it is the difficulty of the conversation around it, too.

02:19:47.159 --> 02:19:47.751
Sure.

02:19:47.751 --> 02:19:49.591
will say as sort of a last thing.

02:19:49.891 --> 02:20:00.779
If you found this movie, if you found America in a good light after watching this movie, my gosh, turn this podcast off, delete Spotify actually.

02:20:00.819 --> 02:20:03.461
and just like go touch grass.

02:20:03.461 --> 02:20:04.061
Okay.

02:20:04.061 --> 02:20:05.363
Email me.

02:20:05.566 --> 02:20:08.055
dbccpodcast.gmail.com.

02:20:08.055 --> 02:20:09.335
Let's talk.

02:20:09.337 --> 02:20:11.040
That's what I want to know.

02:20:11.373 --> 02:20:46.191
I think the, I can just point out one last thing, and it was kind of one of the hardest, like interesting things about this movie was there's a moment where a radio operator had to call and impersonate an, an, a brigade command in order to approve additional tanks to be deployed to rescue these, this, group of, of service members and Can you imagine having to be that guy on the radio and like, he's asking me, like, I mean, first off, you know, my wife is asking me like, like what would happen?

02:20:46.191 --> 02:20:47.029
Would he get in trouble?

02:20:47.029 --> 02:20:48.914
I don't be like, to be honest, I don't give a fuck.

02:20:48.969 --> 02:20:50.337
No, if that was me.

02:20:50.646 --> 02:20:54.367
In that moment, I will impersonate the queen of Egypt.

02:20:54.467 --> 02:20:59.259
You know, I'll impersonate anybody because I'm, you can throw me in jail for 50 years.

02:20:59.259 --> 02:21:00.576
I'm going to get these guys out of here.

02:21:00.576 --> 02:21:01.370
Right.

02:21:01.370 --> 02:21:13.513
You know, and that should have been, there should never be a moment in anybody's memory or history where you had to impersonate somebody in a higher rank than you simply to get a rescue.

02:21:14.049 --> 02:21:23.852
And I think this is perfectly illustrated in those shots where you get the the aerial craft infrared sort of scene where you see everyone has little green dots.

02:21:25.233 --> 02:21:29.654
I mean, Brad, those folks that you watch this movie with, that's how they see us.

02:21:29.654 --> 02:21:34.105
We're little dots on a screen on a black and white screen from one hundred and fifty feet up in the air.

02:21:34.105 --> 02:21:35.636
You know what mean?

02:21:35.876 --> 02:21:39.176
I think that's a very intentional creative decision by Garland and Mendoza.

02:21:39.356 --> 02:21:40.197
know.

02:21:40.457 --> 02:21:42.850
OK, that's enough warfare.

02:21:42.850 --> 02:21:43.915
That's enough centers.

02:21:43.915 --> 02:21:47.105
Brad, thanks so much for hanging out with us for two and a half hours.

02:21:47.105 --> 02:21:48.881
Man, thank you for having me.

02:21:49.256 --> 02:21:51.206
And on a positive note.

02:21:52.567 --> 02:21:57.720
Like you were saying, you watch these two movies and you go like, damn, these are movies, man.

02:21:58.902 --> 02:22:04.265
It's good to go to the theater and watch some movies that are gonna do what only movies can do.

02:22:05.066 --> 02:22:09.218
And I feel like I was in a rut after last year.

02:22:09.218 --> 02:22:12.252
I know a lot of people had a great time at the theater.

02:22:12.252 --> 02:22:16.335
I didn't have these like wow moments in 2024.

02:22:16.335 --> 02:22:19.335
I had movies that I enjoy, but not enough.

02:22:19.637 --> 02:22:22.028
And I feel rejuvenated.

02:22:22.049 --> 02:22:25.111
by movies like Warfare and Sinners.

02:22:25.654 --> 02:22:28.486
And I'm like, bring on the next one.

02:22:28.486 --> 02:22:30.198
Let's go Thunderbolts.

02:22:30.861 --> 02:22:43.242
You know, you saying that made me think of 2024, the way I felt after watching Dune Part 2 and how excited I felt about cinema and going to the movies.

02:22:43.422 --> 02:22:46.422
I felt that with both of these movies.

02:22:46.582 --> 02:22:50.878
I got that one time last year and I got that twice in one week this- I I got that.

02:22:50.878 --> 02:22:51.799
Yeah, definitely.

02:22:51.799 --> 02:22:52.680
After both movies.

02:22:52.680 --> 02:22:54.060
And I think it's, yeah.

02:22:54.060 --> 02:22:57.503
Cause you expected so much more from the rest of of 2024.

02:22:58.102 --> 02:22:59.513
and didn't really necessarily get that.

02:22:59.513 --> 02:23:01.386
So it's, it's amazing to have it happen.

02:23:01.386 --> 02:23:08.013
And again, I'm excited cause I've never given out a, you know, a five little, but one goddamn.

02:23:08.013 --> 02:23:09.425
That's a tenor right there.

02:23:09.425 --> 02:23:11.970
All right, Brad, tell the folks one last time.

02:23:11.970 --> 02:23:13.453
How can they find you?

02:23:13.453 --> 02:23:15.886
What's coming up on comic book couples counseling here in the near future?

02:23:15.886 --> 02:23:19.085
You can find me comicbookcouplescounseling.com.

02:23:19.085 --> 02:23:21.286
We're on all the podcast platforms.

02:23:22.025 --> 02:23:25.685
The Grant Morrison episode, Lifetime Highlight.

02:23:25.685 --> 02:23:30.286
Whether you like Superman or not, please listen to that episode.

02:23:30.286 --> 02:23:35.046
I think the conversation around Superman in 2025 is really interesting.

02:23:35.206 --> 02:23:44.718
I think also that it would be a great time to revisit the 1938 comic of Action Comics number one, which I just did.

02:23:44.718 --> 02:23:46.837
this past week, thanks to Superman Day.

02:23:46.837 --> 02:23:48.897
Look at that, there you go.

02:23:49.118 --> 02:23:55.897
Like the Superman of 1938 is not necessarily what you think of when you think of Superman.

02:23:57.077 --> 02:24:03.798
And Grant Morrison and I just had like a really interesting conversation about Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster's creation.

02:24:04.058 --> 02:24:06.417
So yeah, go check that out.

02:24:06.417 --> 02:24:09.695
This coming week or whenever this episode is dropped.

02:24:09.695 --> 02:24:15.468
Our latest episode is going to be with Tyler Crook and Christopher Cantwell, friends of the Oblivion Bar.

02:24:15.588 --> 02:24:25.733
Their new comic is Out Alcatraz from Oni Press, who are killing it.

02:24:25.733 --> 02:24:30.194
the second issue, again, depending on when you listen to this, should just be out.

02:24:30.334 --> 02:24:33.076
It's one of the best comics on the stands right now.

02:24:33.076 --> 02:24:35.156
Nobody makes comics like Tyler Crook.

02:24:35.518 --> 02:24:36.798
Go check it out.

02:24:37.325 --> 02:24:39.286
I think I'll do you one better.

02:24:39.286 --> 02:24:43.286
Out of Alcatraz is the best book of 2025 so far.

02:24:43.286 --> 02:24:46.126
2020! It's been a good year.

02:24:46.126 --> 02:24:47.786
Really good year.

02:24:48.126 --> 02:24:53.365
It would be in conversation with that, my top five.

02:24:54.025 --> 02:24:55.185
How it all shakes out.

02:24:55.185 --> 02:25:00.244
feel weird saying a comic's the best comic of the year when we've only got two issues.

02:25:00.244 --> 02:25:01.778
So far, so far.

02:25:01.861 --> 02:25:02.343
Yeah.

02:25:02.343 --> 02:25:03.500
Aaron, were you saying?

02:25:03.809 --> 02:25:07.597
I was asking Brad, did you read Patrick Horvath's free for all?

02:25:07.597 --> 02:25:08.661
Sure did.

02:25:08.718 --> 02:25:11.940
I will read anything that man makes.

02:25:12.023 --> 02:25:12.706
Correct.

02:25:12.706 --> 02:25:14.699
That is the right answer right there.

02:25:14.941 --> 02:25:15.486
Support.

02:25:15.486 --> 02:25:28.726
I want to I'm going to show Brad my my while you talk I'm going to show Brad my my little prized possession centers, support, uh, war, war, warfare, Jesus, and also support anything that Patrick Corbett does.

02:25:28.945 --> 02:25:30.345
Very cool.

02:25:30.345 --> 02:25:31.245
Yep.

02:25:31.906 --> 02:25:35.646
Uh, Aaron showing off his beneath the trees where nobody sees card that signed by Patrick.

02:25:35.646 --> 02:25:36.566
Um, okay.

02:25:36.566 --> 02:25:40.966
So as, as Brad said, all of their common book couples, counseling stuff will be in the show notes.

02:25:40.966 --> 02:25:42.046
Make sure you guys go give them a follow up.

02:25:42.046 --> 02:25:42.906
You're not already.

02:25:42.906 --> 02:25:52.226
I would, again, as I said at the beginning of this episode, two and a half hours ago, if for some reason you're not subscribed to Bradley's podcast, you know, That's madness.

02:25:52.226 --> 02:25:54.245
Crazy, crazy talk there.

02:25:54.325 --> 02:25:56.585
But that'll do it for the Oblivion Bar podcast this week.

02:25:56.585 --> 02:25:58.046
Episode 190 is in the book.

02:25:58.046 --> 02:26:01.646
And Aaron, we are officially on the road to 200 as of this episode.

02:26:02.646 --> 02:26:03.925
200 around.

02:26:03.925 --> 02:26:04.865
That's about two months away.

02:26:04.865 --> 02:26:07.365
But still, it's coming up.

02:26:07.566 --> 02:26:11.477
feel like that's a lie because of how many bonus episodes we have.

02:26:13.202 --> 02:26:22.048
According to the, like, we're like legacy number 259, but normal Oblivion Bar episodes were at 190.

02:26:22.048 --> 02:26:28.301
Leash and I were doing that legacy numbering business at one point and then we're just like, forget it.

02:26:28.343 --> 02:26:31.245
Just let we're going back to the olden days.

02:26:31.245 --> 02:26:32.925
This is how many episodes.

02:26:32.925 --> 02:26:39.201
So we started our podcast like 100 episodes apart from each other because we're about to hit episode 300.

02:26:39.201 --> 02:26:39.583
Yep.

02:26:39.583 --> 02:26:43.118
You guys have been around for a little bit longer than us, but you guys have been a good friend to us.

02:26:43.118 --> 02:26:47.584
Both you and Lisa have been great friends to the oblivion bar since our inception.

02:26:47.584 --> 02:26:48.423
Yeah.

02:26:48.423 --> 02:26:49.218
gotcha.

02:26:49.995 --> 02:26:53.432
Now we have to have Lisa on alone just to even it up.

02:26:53.432 --> 02:26:54.704
did mention that.

02:26:54.754 --> 02:26:55.614
Yeah.

02:26:55.698 --> 02:27:01.576
We will talk about, will chronicle lies and rank the best monkey songs in existence.

02:27:01.743 --> 02:27:02.468
my God.

02:27:02.468 --> 02:27:05.683
How about musical like Broadway musicals?

02:27:05.718 --> 02:27:06.845
Love that.

02:27:07.095 --> 02:27:09.236
best romance comics of the 1960s.

02:27:09.236 --> 02:27:11.799
is a musical coming out soon.

02:27:11.799 --> 02:27:15.522
Isn't there, there's like a musical centers was kind of a musical.

02:27:15.522 --> 02:27:19.165
Yeah, Lisa might debate you on that, but...

02:27:20.109 --> 02:27:21.209
What's that?

02:27:22.512 --> 02:27:24.690
Lisa loves Wicked! Yep.

02:27:24.690 --> 02:27:25.655
Wicked's great.

02:27:25.655 --> 02:27:26.960
There is a is a musical.

02:27:26.960 --> 02:27:28.156
Yeah, I can't remember what it is now.

02:27:28.156 --> 02:27:34.605
I just saw I just saw a boop on Broadway and that was probably my favorite Broadway show I've ever seen.

02:27:34.605 --> 02:27:35.566
It was amazing.

02:27:35.566 --> 02:27:39.278
We're getting errands in New York City, living the good life.

02:27:39.278 --> 02:27:41.025
Literally lives in culture.

02:27:41.281 --> 02:27:42.688
City Monday.

02:27:43.136 --> 02:27:43.877
yeah.

02:27:45.144 --> 02:27:45.795
doing.

02:27:45.795 --> 02:27:46.835
We'll talk.

02:27:46.835 --> 02:27:47.216
We'll talk.

02:27:47.216 --> 02:27:48.177
We'll talk.

02:27:48.177 --> 02:27:49.019
Yeah.

02:27:49.019 --> 02:27:51.601
I forget we're recording for a podcast sometime.

02:27:52.128 --> 02:27:54.611
Well, with that being said, Aaron, why don't you take us out of here?

02:27:55.229 --> 02:27:56.320
All right.

02:27:56.320 --> 02:28:00.875
Subscribe to our podcast, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Audible, IR Radio, wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

02:28:00.875 --> 02:28:02.036
That's where we are.

02:28:02.036 --> 02:28:15.147
Thank you to our patrons, Alex, Alice, Aaron, Bodder, Chris S, Chris White, Christie, David, Elliot, Erica, George, Gianni, Greg, Haley, Ham, Six, Jake, Jeremy, Kyle, Losey, Mike, Miles, Mike, Olivia, Ryan, I, Robert, Saunter, Sean, Trevor, Travis, Zad, and Brack and Lisa.

02:28:15.147 --> 02:28:16.308
Brack Lisa.

02:28:16.308 --> 02:28:19.370
Brad Brad and Lisa.

02:28:19.970 --> 02:28:22.513
Brack from Space Ghost.

02:28:23.510 --> 02:28:32.334
If you want to support the show without spending any money and fall on your preferred podcasting platform and a five star rating and or review on an Apple podcast at Spotify helps the show a ton.

02:28:32.334 --> 02:28:36.397
Follow us on blue sky, Instagram, Tik TOK and Twitch at oblivion bar pod.

02:28:36.397 --> 02:28:40.659
Official merch for the show is on our website, oblivion bar podcast.com.

02:28:40.920 --> 02:28:41.661
Big thank you.

02:28:41.661 --> 02:28:45.362
Onypress and endless comics, games and cards are sponsoring the show.

02:28:45.362 --> 02:28:45.733
Thank you.

02:28:45.733 --> 02:28:47.634
KXD studios for all over oblivion bar art.

02:28:47.634 --> 02:28:49.704
He's at KXD KX3.

02:28:51.170 --> 02:28:51.760
He's at KX.

02:28:51.760 --> 02:28:52.581
He's going to leave that in.

02:28:52.581 --> 02:28:54.512
He's at KXD graphics on the Instagram.

02:28:54.512 --> 02:28:57.909
Thank you, Dream Kid for all of our musical themes.

02:28:57.909 --> 02:29:00.235
once you, once you fuck up, you just can't get back on there.

02:29:00.235 --> 02:29:02.386
Thank you, DJ Sky Vacu for our grid theme.

02:29:02.386 --> 02:29:10.700
And last but not least, do not forget to tip your bartenders 20 % or more, or we will send the Gullixons after you.

02:29:11.102 --> 02:29:11.853
Damn right.

02:29:11.853 --> 02:29:14.634
Brad in first and then Lisa to finish you.

02:29:14.634 --> 02:29:15.453
right.

02:29:15.533 --> 02:29:18.834
I know everybody, know tipping culture is getting a little wild.

02:29:18.834 --> 02:29:32.113
You you go to the gas station and you got to, give you a 20 % tip option for, for cashing out, but you know, servers, know, Ubers, things like that, please 20 % should be the lowest that you tip everybody.

02:29:32.113 --> 02:29:33.113
They deserve it.

02:29:33.113 --> 02:29:35.234
It makes their day and it's easy for you.

02:29:35.474 --> 02:29:38.474
So thank you, Brad, again, for joining us here on the oblivion bar.

02:29:38.474 --> 02:29:40.162
Thank you everyone listening right now.

02:29:40.162 --> 02:29:40.872
We appreciate it.

02:29:40.872 --> 02:29:49.222
Next week on the show, we are talking to Kurt Pierce, talking about Lost Fantasy, his brand new book over at Image Comics, but until then we'll see you later.