NYCC '24 INTERVIEW-A-THON: Comic Book Couples Counseling

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you Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host, Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles.

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Hello everyone and welcome back to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Joining me on the show is the greatest couple in comics.

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Now, I know a lot of you don't need me to continue on.

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You automatically know who that is, but I will just because they're some of my best friends in the podcasting world.

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Some of my best friends just in general.

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I don't know if that's weird to say virtually here, but I feel like I can often, I just have the best time when I'm around them.

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Brad and Lisa Gullickson of the comic book couples counseling is joining us here today on the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Welcome.

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Thank you.

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give you full permission to say we're super duper close.

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I'm into it.

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Actual real life friends in person and online.

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Isn't that how this all started, right?

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We all just became mutuals via social media or otherwise.

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I wonder if I have any friends that I didn't initially meet online.

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Same, same.

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All the people that I talk to are all podcasters now.

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Not just podcasters, too.

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They're comic book podcasters.

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So we're all just talking about either our, we're complaining about our show.

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or we're complaining about comics or bragging about our show or bragging about a comic we love.

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It's like those four things usually.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's like, who you got coming on your show?

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Well, you know, everybody that's listening right now, everyone already knows you guys have been on the show before.

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We've done panels, you know, at New York Comic Con.

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Every time we're together at a show, we do something together.

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So they're very familiar with you guys, I'm sure.

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But Chris, I'm going tell you right now, that is not true.

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I was just at Baltimore Comic Con.

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Unfortunately, Lisa wasn't able to attend.

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Bob Harrison of the Pop Culture Squad invited me on to a panel about comics journalism.

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We do a whole hour talking about the state of the industry, the state of the medium, like tips and tricks, like our best days, our worst days, that kind of thing.

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And at the end, we open up Q &A and the first question is like, Hey, I don't know who any of you people are, but I'm curious what you think about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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And I was like, yeah, we're going to fight between Spider-Man and Spawn.

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But that tracks that tracks like I often think that the comic book fandom is pretty small.

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Like we're a tight, tiny community.

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But you forget when you look at the numbers of Absolute Batman number one selling over 200,000 that actually it's pretty, pretty large community.

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And guess what?

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We don't get 200,000 listens a week.

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Not yet.

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Not yet.

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Well, yeah, I would say in terms of our listeners, which is, you I don't know how many that would even be, but people that listen to the Oblivion Bar know who you guys are because again, You guys are on the show.

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We've done things together.

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So I think they're at least familiar, but I will say just for the layman, could you please just give an overview of the comic book couples counseling?

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We are Brad and Lisa Gullickson of Comic Book Couples Counseling.

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And the original concept of our show, though we have meandered over the years, is that we take a comic book couple like Scott Summers and Jean Grey, and we take a self-help book like The Five Love Languages.

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and we apply that self-help book to the comic book couple and we apply both books to our relationships to make our lives better.

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And now we're like lately we've just been slamming interviews and in interviews we generally try to glean life lessons either about being a creative or just about life in general.

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or something thematically related to the story.

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I think generally we dig into the story.

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think that's mostly what the focus of our conversations are.

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And I think that also does end up separating us from a lot of other interview shows.

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But our main tenet is that we read books to talk about human existence.

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That's what stories are for and that's what comics are for.

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And you know, I will say, and I'm not just saying this because you guys are my friends, you guys put on some of the best interviews in our, you know, not just in podcasting, but comic podcasting across the board.

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I definitely will lean on you guys on bottom Milligan of the short box.

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Of course, David Harper over at off panel as some of the folks who just have great conversations with these creators that we love.

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And, you know, like Lisa, you had said a moment ago, you guys are an absolute heater when it comes to interviews.

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I haven't seen you guys do a counseling session in a bit because.

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You've just been having some of the greatest creators in the medium on just back to back to back to back.

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Yeah, we had an episode back in March that was celebrating the 40th anniversary of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

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And then, of course, we started the year talking about Scott Summers and Emma Frost.

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And we do owe our listeners the conclusion to that counseling session.

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There's definitely a pin in it.

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We are going to go back.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I will say selfishly as a Patreon member, I love when you guys are getting together and you just like press record after a movie and just talk through it.

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That's some of my favorite episodes for you guys because it's just a fun dynamic where obviously Brad, you're a big, I don't know if the term cinephile is evil or if it isn't.

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You love movies.

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I like movies.

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Yeah, love movies.

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Lisa loves movies.

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I love movies.

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And I love hearing people talk about movies.

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I'd say outside of comic book podcasting, movie podcasting is maybe a very close second, if not sometimes the first.

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So I really love those little segments that you guys put on for your Patreon members.

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Yeah, we were going to do one for Joker 2, but unfortunately Lisa couldn't join me to the press screening and then I saw it by myself and then I was like, I don't want to talk about this.

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Seems like a movie you just don't really want to talk about that For those of you who like it or not.

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was super looking forward to it.

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It's a person who loves musicals.

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Yeah, and I do want to watch it again with you.

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I just don't know if the world needs us to contribute to the discourse of Joker 2.

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There's a lot of that right now.

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Yeah.

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Well, you guys are on today, not just to hang and talk, which we're going to do, but I do want to get into a little bit of why you guys are actually here, which is extremely exciting.

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You guys are contributing to a Pots and Panels Kickstarter, which is a food inspired anthology, from what I understand.

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Am I explaining that correctly?

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Yeah.

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It's a comic cookbook.

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You know, it has comics and it has recipes and one of those recipes belongs to us and one of those comics belongs to us.

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It's an incredible anthology.

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It's over 400 pages.

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The Table of Contents has everyone from Hillary Barta to Steve Niles to Tim Seeley to Phil Hester and Andy Parks, Neil Clyde, and somehow Brad and Lisa Gullickson are in there too.

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Can we ask?

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how that came about.

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see that it was Chuck Shatterly who...

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Shatterly, ...sat...

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excuse me, Shatterly that's sort of campaigning and putting this all together.

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How did you guys get in contact to get involved in this?

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Well, Pots and Panels reached out to both of us and asked if we might have an idea for this anthology.

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And I actually really haven't had a conversation with them properly saying why they thought comic book couples counseling would have.

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an interesting food related comic to contribute.

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I'm just glad that they asked.

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And of course, when someone asks you to contribute to something that has a table of contents that's so rich already, and it was rich already, they were like, well, Phil Hester's on board and Neil Clyde's on board.

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Neil had been on the show.

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So the first thing I did is I reached out to Neil.

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was like, is this a legit thing?

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And Neil's like, no, yeah, no, this is legit.

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And I was like, really?

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And then I said, Lisa, do you have a food related idea?

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Because I don't know if I do, but we have to come up with one.

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And I said, I have an idea.

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You're going to hate it, but this is what it should be.

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And Brad's response was, no, could not possibly be that.

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Yeah, I did.

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And that's what it is.

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Lisa had the idea, like within minutes of us contemplating joining Pots and Panels.

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And then it took me like 24 to 48 hours before I agreed with Lisa that that was the idea to pursue.

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Now, let me before we get really into this, because I do want to talk about you guys have seven pages within this Pots and Panels Kickstarter.

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So it's not like, you know, it's seven pages.

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We're super proud.

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That's still cool.

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That's still really cool.

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Honestly, I'm not that's not me trying to downplay it.

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I'm just I'm wondering how much I want to get into it.

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I know you guys have talked to a couple of other podcasts about this.

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I don't know if they've come out yet, but I just see it sort of seen through social media that.

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around the time that this conversation will be coming out.

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I'm sure you guys will be visiting other shows.

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And I'm wondering, do you guys want to get into it or do you want to sort of play around, like around the story?

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I feel like, and Lisa, feel free to tell me if you don't feel this way.

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I feel like we can talk about it.

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Chris, you're the only person who has read the comic besides my mom and dad.

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Okay.

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Awesome.

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then of course, rarefied air.

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Our patrons did get the script.

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The first people to read it after Gerald von Stoddard, our illustrator, and Chuck and Jason, they read that script and patrons, being lovely patrons, said nice things about it.

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But you're the first person who's actually had the letter layout.

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And so we're actually a little nervous to talk I don't believe in spoilers.

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So I don't think that there's anything that you could ask where it would be like, that would ruin the ending of the story.

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So I say, ask whatever you want to ask, unless you don't want to ask us any questions, then we'll just talk about whatever you want to talk about.

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We will see ourselves out.

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I want to talk about preacher.

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That's why I'm here today.

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We're going to about preacher.

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And I tried it once.

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It was not for me.

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Sad, sad for our marriage.

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No, no, I do want to talk about it.

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I just didn't know how much you guys wanted to get into it.

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And I think, you know, a good spot I think would be to start.

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Brad, you were talking a little bit about how you've got Gerald von Stoddard is the artist on this.

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I looked up some of his work.

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I looked up his Instagram.

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Obviously, like you said, I'm hashtag blessed because I've gotten to read these seven issues.

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So I feel very honored.

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Thank you both for allowing me to see this early.

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But I will say my first sort of thought going through this was Gerald has this.

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And tell me if I'm off base here.

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It feels very EC.

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It's almost like a very, it's almost horror inherently.

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it's absolutely horrific.

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Gerald has an aesthetic that does harken a little bit back to EC, I think he does grotesque really, really well.

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And when we were talking about our idea, we actually pitched the idea before we wrote the script as an EC-like story.

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But then as we broke the story down, it became less of an easy story.

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But because it deals with panic attacks and phobias and terror, we still wanted somebody like Gerald who could land all those emotions.

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And we thought he knocked it out of the park.

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It's a story about being scared and having fear and how everybody has it.

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And it's not always rational, but we still have to kind of like make space for it.

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And I feel like particularly in the pages that deal specifically with our phobias, I really feel like Gerald really brought it.

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Yeah.

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I also love the page that deals with other people's phobias.

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Yeah, that one too.

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Yeah, we've got.

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So again, if we're to go spoilers, I'll just sort of say here, I think it's really interesting.

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You know, we got a little bit of a so Nicole Kidman and Kylie Jenner apparently are afraid of butterflies.

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I didn't know that.

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That's interesting.

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We got Matthew McConaughey, was afraid of revolving doors.

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Yeah.

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So that was interesting.

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Oprah Winfrey is afraid of balloons.

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Now, this is and I think this is probably the most common one.

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We have Justin Turmalake is, of course, afraid of spiders.

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He's arachnophobic.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And then we get into two, know, Brad's here, which, you know, I don't want to get into the story quite yet.

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I want to talk about the setup here.

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So, OK, as.

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you know, podcasters in the comic world, we are always trying to find out the process, right?

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Like that's some of the most interesting things about talking to creators.

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And now you guys are currently in the seat.

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You guys are the creators.

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I'm the interviewer.

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So you have to expose your belly to me and the listener right now.

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And that my first question when we turned that belly over is what was the process?

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Did you guys go full Stan Jack and just, you know, do the Marvel method?

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Or did you open up Words for Pictures by Brian Michael Bendez or you do a little Scott McCloud?

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What was the process here?

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Our process really started with a lot of fantasy, a lot of just like thinking, a lot of going on long walks and kind of like talking it out.

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Yeah.

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And then when we felt that red hot heat of the deadline, it happened to align with our 15 year wedding anniversary.

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That's right, Lisa.

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And we had, I'm horrible.

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Like I'm horrible.

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I don't know the date of our anniversary.

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I don't know how long we've been together.

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June 27th, we've been together for 17 years.

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We've known each other for 18.

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It's so lucky that we celebrate anything.

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You need to invest it in one of those Google calendars.

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Just put everything in that, that way it notifies you.

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She's got one.

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I've got one.

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Have I ever looked at it?

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Debatable.

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But it lined up perfectly with our 15th wedding anniversary and we had already planned to go on a bit of a pilgrimage to Dover, New Hampshire, which is the land of Eastman and Laird.

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We went to go see the site where the Ninja Turtles were conceived of and were delivered.

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so- And they recently, know, the town of Dover had erected You know a ceremonial plaque at the end of the street and then at the location where the house used to be it's no longer there There is a manhole cover that is decorative with the four brothers on it.

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that's cool And yeah, and then there's a really nice comic book store in Dover And we wanted to make sure that we bought a Ninja Turtle comic if they had one and they had a lot So yeah, we bought comics we slept in Dover and we wrote in Dover.

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Yeah, so When it was time to finally write, we were sharing a hotel room, very romantic.

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Can we go back just a little bit?

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Before we even got to Dover and we were talking about the concept of the story, the thing that really sealed the deal, like at the end of the two days of when I was contemplating it, is a page appeared in my head and it's the origin of my fear page.

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You know, this fear that I have, I've had since, you know, since I was a young, young, young, young child.

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I don't really remember life without this fear.

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But my parents believe that this fear was born from a specific moment.

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And they've I don't remember this moment, but they've told me this moment in graphic detail many times over the years.

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And I imagined that image or that moment.

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as a nine panel grid homage to a page from Darwin Cook's The Hunter.

00:15:43.751 --> 00:15:49.533
And there's a moment in Darwin Cook's The Hunter where Parker is strangling a man to death.

00:15:49.533 --> 00:15:54.475
And in the top three panels, we see the strangulation occurring.

00:15:54.475 --> 00:15:59.296
In the fourth panel, he does it or he's almost strangled the guy.

00:15:59.296 --> 00:16:05.317
And then the fifth panel, the center panel, the nine panel grid is we change up the scene.

00:16:05.826 --> 00:16:09.368
to a close up of the man expiring.

00:16:09.368 --> 00:16:19.974
And I thought, that's how we do Myphobia's birth with that central panel being the bullseye of the violent act that started Myphobia.

00:16:19.974 --> 00:16:21.053
Yeah.

00:16:21.053 --> 00:16:24.405
And that revelation is what sold the idea to yourself.

00:16:24.405 --> 00:16:25.297
I got excited.

00:16:25.297 --> 00:16:27.187
I said, I want to see that page.

00:16:27.187 --> 00:16:30.679
I want to pay tribute to Darwin Cook, one of the best to ever do it.

00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:31.919
Let's do this story.

00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:40.413
So when it was finally time to put a Word document together, We decided to do like we do for the podcast is kind of divide and conquer.

00:16:40.413 --> 00:16:49.494
So the story is from my perspective about where I was coming from when I recognized that Brad had a phobia.

00:16:49.494 --> 00:16:51.844
So you're sort of the narrator of this of this story.

00:16:51.844 --> 00:16:52.443
That's right.

00:16:52.443 --> 00:16:53.214
I'm the narrator.

00:16:53.214 --> 00:16:55.173
So it's all first person from Lisa.

00:16:55.173 --> 00:16:55.553
Yeah.

00:16:55.553 --> 00:16:57.634
And so I wrote all of that stuff.

00:16:57.634 --> 00:16:58.823
That was all me.

00:16:58.823 --> 00:17:05.307
And then Brad wrote a lot of the page description and he wrote the description of the incident.

00:17:05.509 --> 00:17:07.471
And we did Pomodoro Method.

00:17:07.471 --> 00:17:12.998
So Pomodoro Method comes from those like little egg timers that are shaped like tomatoes.

00:17:12.998 --> 00:17:17.582
And it's for people who cannot focus their thoughts for long periods of time.

00:17:17.582 --> 00:17:23.789
So we took the timers on our Apple iPhones, not sponsored, whoa.

00:17:23.789 --> 00:17:25.309
Not a sponsor of show, everybody.

00:17:25.309 --> 00:17:27.112
And we set it for 30 minutes.

00:17:27.112 --> 00:17:29.920
And for 30 minutes, Brad would write in the room.

00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:32.971
I would go out to the hotel lobby and I would write.

00:17:32.971 --> 00:17:36.582
We found early on that we couldn't be in the same room and write.

00:17:36.582 --> 00:17:39.833
Because Brad writes on the outside of his body.

00:17:39.833 --> 00:17:42.222
Like he likes to talk things out.

00:17:42.222 --> 00:17:45.013
Panel three, sentence one.

00:17:45.013 --> 00:17:46.894
mean, SFX, boom.

00:17:46.894 --> 00:17:47.984
You're being silly.

00:17:47.984 --> 00:17:49.685
That's actually what happens.

00:17:49.685 --> 00:17:52.645
Brad does read his writing out loud as he does it.

00:17:52.645 --> 00:17:54.586
And he asks for a lot of feedback.

00:17:54.586 --> 00:17:56.588
If you are there, he's like, what do you think about this?

00:17:56.588 --> 00:17:58.349
I'm like, I'm trying to think of my own thing.

00:17:58.349 --> 00:18:00.040
And I write on the inside.

00:18:00.040 --> 00:18:07.124
I'm like the kind of person who you see writing at a coffee shop where the coffee shop is just like a din of noise and there's like one focused person.

00:18:07.124 --> 00:18:08.673
That person is me.

00:18:08.673 --> 00:18:13.375
So I went out to the lobby and I did my assignment while he did his assignment.

00:18:13.375 --> 00:18:17.857
Then when the timer would go off, we would check in with each other going like, okay, are you ready?

00:18:17.857 --> 00:18:24.601
And if we had completed our assignment, we would come back together, share what we had wrote, give each other notes.

00:18:24.601 --> 00:18:27.961
And like, we actually really shocked ourselves.

00:18:28.001 --> 00:18:29.163
that we could do it.

00:18:29.163 --> 00:18:35.738
Because a lot of times, especially like, a lot of times when we collaborate, we butt heads actually a lot.

00:18:35.738 --> 00:18:38.480
There was one other element that you missed.

00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:40.102
Ooh, see what I'm talking about?

00:18:40.102 --> 00:18:42.272
We're like not getting along right now.

00:18:42.493 --> 00:18:46.122
Before we broke off to write in our separate corners.

00:18:46.122 --> 00:18:47.028
we did write an outline.

00:18:47.028 --> 00:18:48.398
Is that what you're gonna say?

00:18:48.398 --> 00:18:51.161
We created an outline visually.

00:18:51.161 --> 00:18:56.778
So I had a little journal and we laid out what the panels would be, what's on the page.

00:18:56.778 --> 00:18:59.298
and what the panels would generally look like.

00:18:59.298 --> 00:19:05.550
And on that initial outline, we had eight pages because Pots and Panels came to us and said, you can have eight pages.

00:19:05.550 --> 00:19:07.862
We're like, well, we're going to use every page.

00:19:07.862 --> 00:19:12.742
But then in the process of actually scripting it, we're like, we actually don't need this extra page.

00:19:12.742 --> 00:19:15.243
I think the ending is the seventh page.

00:19:15.243 --> 00:19:16.354
Yeah.

00:19:16.354 --> 00:19:16.877
OK.

00:19:16.877 --> 00:19:18.810
Well, yeah, I just want to go back on a couple of things.

00:19:18.810 --> 00:19:21.365
Number one, the nine panel grid.

00:19:21.577 --> 00:19:25.801
Tom King, Alan Moore to be so proud of you guys for that one there, including the inclusion of that.

00:19:25.801 --> 00:19:26.863
Thank you.

00:19:26.863 --> 00:19:30.705
And I noticed that as soon as I saw that fifth page in the story, I was like nine panels.

00:19:30.705 --> 00:19:36.682
My King brain starts to ring a little bit because he's, know, he's obviously notorious for that now in today's world.

00:19:36.682 --> 00:19:43.186
But and then secondly, again, I don't know why I'm stepping around like tiptoeing around this because I do want to love it.

00:19:43.186 --> 00:19:48.544
But the middle panel that you were sort of speaking on a moment ago is we see for everyone that.

00:19:48.544 --> 00:19:52.958
Hopefully everyone gets to read this when it eventually gets funded through Kickstarter.

00:19:52.958 --> 00:19:58.383
I don't know if you guys will be able to share pages, but I'm going to sort of describe the page, if I may, for the listener.

00:19:58.383 --> 00:20:09.423
So basically when Brad was talking about this fear of sort of being born, this moment that his parents had been telling him about, it's basically Brad in this sort of feeding chair that you have, you to a guy chair.

00:20:09.423 --> 00:20:09.952
Yeah.

00:20:09.952 --> 00:20:10.333
Yeah.

00:20:10.333 --> 00:20:16.965
And, you know, Brad stands up at one point, there's a counter and he knocks his head in the middle of He's an infant in this, he's a toddler.

00:20:16.965 --> 00:20:18.316
He's not a grown man in a high chair.

00:20:18.316 --> 00:20:19.726
I don't know why I had to say that.

00:20:19.726 --> 00:20:24.205
He's not a six foot five full grown man in this toddler chair.

00:20:24.205 --> 00:20:32.086
He is a young boy, he knocks over the tray, he is leaning over to grab something from the counter as kids often do, just getting into shit like they always do.

00:20:32.086 --> 00:20:33.996
And he slips, he knocks his head.

00:20:33.996 --> 00:20:37.365
Now, my first thought is, this is why Brad is an obsessive like me.

00:20:37.365 --> 00:20:39.086
We've had things happen in our lives.

00:20:39.086 --> 00:20:40.942
This is yours, you knocked your head.

00:20:40.942 --> 00:20:44.902
when you were a baby and now you just really, really love Stanley Kubrick.

00:20:46.142 --> 00:20:51.281
And for me, I really love Silver Surfer because I got hit too hard one time at football or something.

00:20:51.281 --> 00:20:51.701
I don't know.

00:20:51.701 --> 00:20:52.801
I don't know where it came from.

00:20:52.801 --> 00:21:05.882
But anyway, I just really love that that's it's so interesting to hear you highlight and specifically talk about that moment where that was a conscious decision to have the sort of the birth of this phobia in a way, right?

00:21:05.882 --> 00:21:06.652
According to your parents.

00:21:06.652 --> 00:21:09.069
I'm going to tell you right now, I've cracked my head.

00:21:09.069 --> 00:21:10.569
many times.

00:21:10.569 --> 00:21:18.000
Brad as a toddler was always getting into, like he was constantly injuring himself.

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:25.829
And as a high schooler, I have several scars that if I were to shave my head, you would see all kinds of injuries that have occurred.

00:21:25.829 --> 00:21:29.910
I've had a brick thrown at my skull that left stitches.

00:21:29.910 --> 00:21:34.029
I flung myself off of a rock onto another rock that left stitches.

00:21:34.029 --> 00:21:38.299
I was on a playground wall and I slipped off that and knocked my head.

00:21:38.299 --> 00:21:40.359
So I've actually knocked my head several times.

00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:45.809
most interesting one was he, as a toddler, he ran through...

00:21:45.809 --> 00:21:46.609
I was a little older.

00:21:46.609 --> 00:21:48.539
I was like four or five years old.

00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:50.730
He ran through a glass door.

00:21:50.730 --> 00:21:51.650
A plate glass door.

00:21:51.650 --> 00:21:52.710
A plate glass door.

00:21:52.710 --> 00:21:55.809
so his Was it clean and you just tried to run through it or what?

00:21:55.809 --> 00:22:03.650
A friend from England was visiting and we were running around our house in Virginia Beach and...

00:22:03.763 --> 00:22:05.134
I I don't know.

00:22:05.134 --> 00:22:06.955
I thought the door was open.

00:22:07.778 --> 00:22:08.898
Door wasn't open.

00:22:08.898 --> 00:22:13.813
And the two of us, both of us, and I think actually Anthony went through first.

00:22:13.813 --> 00:22:16.566
So he hit the glass, he shattered it.

00:22:16.566 --> 00:22:19.959
And then I came on top of him and we rolled in the glass together.

00:22:19.959 --> 00:22:20.309
Yeah.

00:22:20.309 --> 00:22:23.172
So his tiny cuts all over his body.

00:22:23.172 --> 00:22:25.294
But that was not the incident.

00:22:25.294 --> 00:22:28.057
Like, Brad's not afraid of windows.

00:22:28.057 --> 00:22:29.076
No, no.

00:22:29.693 --> 00:22:32.175
That had no psychological repercussions.

00:22:32.175 --> 00:22:34.096
Yeah, but my dad did.

00:22:34.096 --> 00:22:36.019
Pulling all the glass out of my body.

00:22:36.019 --> 00:22:37.098
tiny, Brad.

00:22:37.098 --> 00:22:44.404
Lisa, I mean, think that's a great transition into why do you think your parents think that, and we'll get to the fear everyone here in just a moment.

00:22:44.404 --> 00:22:45.645
I think it's very interesting.

00:22:45.645 --> 00:22:47.926
His story is called The Vegetable.

00:22:47.926 --> 00:22:52.630
So we can infer that this phobia is dealing with the vegetable.

00:22:52.691 --> 00:22:57.250
Brad, why do you think that your parents attribute this moment to your phobia?

00:22:57.250 --> 00:23:11.357
Because I think that the vegetable fear that I have that is very serious and when I was younger it was even more so and caused scenes in my parents' lives, they had to make sense of this very irrational thing.

00:23:11.357 --> 00:23:24.834
And so they go through this whole process of, well, was there ever a violent moment or was there ever a memorable moment involving this vegetable that would then subconsciously create a fear in our son?

00:23:24.834 --> 00:23:29.736
And they go, well, there was this one time where he was eating this vegetable and he cracked his skull.

00:23:30.056 --> 00:23:35.818
And then there's another element where I was getting all the x-rays done.

00:23:35.818 --> 00:23:46.041
And when they had me strapped into this little baby papoose, as they unwrapped me, then the vegetable, all the vegetables rolled all over my body.

00:23:46.042 --> 00:23:46.853
So gross.

00:23:46.853 --> 00:23:49.183
I don't even like talking about it.

00:23:49.193 --> 00:23:50.263
my gosh.

00:23:50.263 --> 00:24:03.215
the image of that, of the vegetable post accident, with all the vegetable mixed in with the blood plus the crying baby screams and all the stress that my parents were experiencing in that moment.

00:24:03.215 --> 00:24:07.799
I think just creates a really memorable parenting moment.

00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:13.284
And if you suddenly have a son who's afraid of this thing and you have this story to attach to this fear, it just makes sense.

00:24:13.284 --> 00:24:15.692
Whether that's actually true or not, I don't know.

00:24:15.692 --> 00:24:22.549
I feel like the question of life is why am I the way that I am?

00:24:22.605 --> 00:24:33.568
And I think a lot of it goes to like, when we enter this world, the time where we're seeing everything for the first time, we are so dumb.

00:24:33.568 --> 00:24:42.151
Like as kids, are just so, like as babies, there is no one dumber than a freshly born baby.

00:24:42.151 --> 00:24:46.462
And it's just like, and that's when you learn like, this is what your life is going to be like.

00:24:46.462 --> 00:24:47.692
know?

00:24:47.692 --> 00:24:52.021
Like it's gonna be like, you're just gonna be sitting, eating a vegetable.

00:24:52.021 --> 00:24:56.823
And then all of a sudden you're going to experience horror and that's life, baby Brad.

00:24:56.823 --> 00:24:58.144
Welcome to the world.

00:24:58.144 --> 00:24:58.554
Yeah.

00:24:58.554 --> 00:24:58.963
Yeah.

00:24:58.963 --> 00:24:59.594
Now, okay.

00:24:59.594 --> 00:25:01.424
I don't want to name drop here, but this is interesting.

00:25:01.424 --> 00:25:08.846
I feel like we we're treading onto a conversation in our Latin, our episode that we had before we went on our hiatus over here at the oblivion bar.

00:25:08.846 --> 00:25:10.346
We sat down with Brian K von.

00:25:10.346 --> 00:25:15.959
We talked about how Hazel has little pieces of not only Alana, but also Marco, right?

00:25:15.959 --> 00:25:29.967
And we sort of, we both came to the conclusion and I'm sure Brian already had this cause he's a genius, but He sort of thought that as babies, as young people, as freshly born people, we sort of come into the world half-baked, right?

00:25:29.967 --> 00:25:34.328
Like, of course we pick up certain things from not only our parents, but people around us.

00:25:34.328 --> 00:25:40.373
But some of the things about us, some of the most important things about us are just sort of ingrained in us for whatever reason.

00:25:40.373 --> 00:25:42.773
And I bring all that up to bring up this.

00:25:42.773 --> 00:25:46.935
Brad, you said something a moment ago that I found really interesting as well, which is you said it was an irrational fear.

00:25:46.935 --> 00:25:51.077
This fear that we're talking about in this story is irrational.

00:25:51.241 --> 00:25:53.262
And it made me think for a quick moment.

00:25:53.262 --> 00:25:54.865
I remember thinking, well, what's my fear?

00:25:54.865 --> 00:25:55.576
What am I afraid of?

00:25:55.576 --> 00:26:03.412
Because as a Midwestern, relatively athletic man, I don't feel fear on a regular, even semi-regular basis.

00:26:03.412 --> 00:26:04.952
Like it's- gonna be great.

00:26:05.034 --> 00:26:05.493
Right.

00:26:05.493 --> 00:26:05.844
Yeah.

00:26:05.844 --> 00:26:07.494
Like as a woman, I'm a dream.

00:26:07.895 --> 00:26:11.838
You walk out of your apartment, it's fear, just a big pink balloon letters in front of your face.

00:26:11.838 --> 00:26:13.230
For me, it's not like that.

00:26:13.230 --> 00:26:14.500
I can go to the bar by myself.

00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:15.942
I can go to the movies by myself.

00:26:15.942 --> 00:26:17.163
I can go on a run by myself.

00:26:17.163 --> 00:26:18.003
I can do all these things.

00:26:18.003 --> 00:26:20.556
So it made me think, what am I afraid of?

00:26:20.652 --> 00:26:22.801
And for me, it's heights.

00:26:22.801 --> 00:26:24.634
And heights is one of those common fears, right?

00:26:24.634 --> 00:26:28.106
Like it's one of those things that a lot of people get because it's sort of fight or flight.

00:26:28.106 --> 00:26:29.107
We're up high.

00:26:29.107 --> 00:26:32.329
We think if we fall, we're dead, right?

00:26:32.329 --> 00:26:34.290
That's a rational fear.

00:26:34.311 --> 00:26:34.717
Well, okay.

00:26:34.717 --> 00:26:37.232
That is more rational than that's fear.

00:26:37.374 --> 00:26:38.913
Well, here's the thing though.

00:26:39.255 --> 00:26:44.818
I make all that point to make this point is that I think all fear is sort of irrational, right?

00:26:44.818 --> 00:26:49.192
Fear is a reaction that we have to save ourselves.

00:26:49.192 --> 00:26:51.823
Like, it's almost like our fight or flight is taking over.

00:26:51.823 --> 00:26:56.693
And we think if we do this thing or if we experience this thing, something bad is going to happen.

00:26:56.693 --> 00:26:57.453
So I just stay away.

00:26:57.453 --> 00:27:06.547
But like, I do think that fear does serve a function, you know, especially, you in our Cro-Magnum days.

00:27:07.446 --> 00:27:11.018
But, you know, and to this day, right?

00:27:11.018 --> 00:27:13.409
Like, you know, I'm afraid of fire.

00:27:13.409 --> 00:27:18.102
So when I'm cooking on the stove, I know to be careful and cautious because I've...

00:27:18.102 --> 00:27:21.242
I have touched flame before and it hurts.

00:27:21.522 --> 00:27:28.924
You know, when you're chopping things up, I'm afraid of cutting myself because once upon a time I cut myself and I had to go to the emergency room.

00:27:28.924 --> 00:27:34.406
You know, I think there's degrees of rationality when we're discussing fear.

00:27:34.406 --> 00:27:42.028
And when you have a fear that few people share, you feel very othered.

00:27:42.068 --> 00:27:47.700
And, you know, my fear became very embarrassing.

00:27:48.061 --> 00:27:57.749
And it's a big deal that I'm putting this out in the world because I am also afraid that then people will then tease me by sending this vegetable to me somehow.

00:27:57.749 --> 00:28:00.050
And please, I'm begging you, do not do this.

00:28:00.050 --> 00:28:01.000
Do not do that.

00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:01.971
Do not do it.

00:28:01.971 --> 00:28:03.457
It's a legitimate fear.

00:28:03.457 --> 00:28:04.874
Like it grosses him out.

00:28:04.874 --> 00:28:07.895
Yeah, it's beyond gross.

00:28:07.895 --> 00:28:08.856
It's scary.

00:28:08.856 --> 00:28:09.717
It's scary.

00:28:09.717 --> 00:28:11.278
It's scary.

00:28:11.278 --> 00:28:12.298
It shouldn't be.

00:28:12.298 --> 00:28:14.200
It's kind of dumb that it is.

00:28:15.520 --> 00:28:18.299
the other thing you hear is like, Well, you just got to grow up.

00:28:18.299 --> 00:28:22.032
You know, got to grow up and deal with it because you're going to encounter this vegetable.

00:28:22.032 --> 00:28:22.534
And guess what?

00:28:22.534 --> 00:28:23.414
I do.

00:28:23.414 --> 00:28:25.256
I do encounter this vegetable quite often.

00:28:25.256 --> 00:28:29.959
And I've become a fan of a lot of food that involves this vegetable.

00:28:29.959 --> 00:28:42.718
And I've been able over the many decades that I have lived to enjoy food with this vegetable by kind of creating a black hole in my mind as I eat this thing.

00:28:42.718 --> 00:28:45.930
But like one thing that I think should not be missed.

00:28:45.978 --> 00:28:49.239
is that Brad is not the only person with this fear.

00:28:49.239 --> 00:28:53.109
And we don't really know the origin of so many fears.

00:28:53.109 --> 00:28:57.780
And we assume that it is because of some kind of traumatic event in our lives.

00:28:57.780 --> 00:29:10.944
But there is another fear that is very common that is often confused with Brad's fear related to Brad's fear, which is like the trick-a-phobia, the people who scared, who's scared of tiny holes.

00:29:10.944 --> 00:29:12.151
Or, you know.

00:29:12.151 --> 00:29:15.200
Well, that's the whole point of that page with Oprah.

00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:27.165
and Justin Timberlake and Matthew McConaughey and Nicole Kidman is, you know, when I finally revealed this phobia to Lisa, part of the conversation was, well, you know, these weird fears actually aren't that weird.

00:29:27.165 --> 00:29:33.318
Many people have weird fears and even your weird fear has a name, which means other people have it.

00:29:33.318 --> 00:29:37.240
And so there's actually a little community of weird fears.

00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:39.880
And, know, Matthew McConaughey is so cool.

00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:45.452
And like the thing with sharing, the thing with sharing, I sometimes you stupid stuff.

00:29:45.452 --> 00:29:50.957
When you share a fear, there is the idea that I'm going to be teased.

00:29:50.957 --> 00:29:54.038
I'm going to be, you know, abuse.

00:29:54.038 --> 00:29:57.630
I'm going to be people are going to try to cure me against my will.

00:29:57.630 --> 00:30:01.782
I'm going to be judged and nobody likes to be judged.

00:30:01.782 --> 00:30:07.976
But when you are in a relationship that is a loving, trusting relationship.

00:30:08.056 --> 00:30:12.808
by sharing your fears, that person can take care of you and love you better.

00:30:12.808 --> 00:30:21.313
Like I'm a person who also has a phobia that goes unnamed, very much- Unnamed in the comic.

00:30:21.313 --> 00:30:32.940
Unnamed in the comic, but very much alluded to, where I wanted to allude to it in a way where other people who have my phobia would see and recognize it.

00:30:33.980 --> 00:30:42.039
But like when I- share my fear with friends or whatever, it is so that they can help protect me.

00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:44.868
So I have a community that protects me.

00:30:44.868 --> 00:30:52.694
I just, like when I discovered that Brad had a fear, I was just so, like I was sad that he had a fear.

00:30:52.694 --> 00:30:57.761
think, you know, wouldn't it be beautiful if we were all just Chris hackers out there in the world, so confident.

00:30:57.761 --> 00:31:00.567
They're like, hey, I'm afraid of heights, all right.

00:31:00.567 --> 00:31:02.949
Don't get me up in like some stairs or something.

00:31:02.949 --> 00:31:05.971
Yeah, no, no, what are they, hot air balloons?

00:31:05.971 --> 00:31:07.461
for you.

00:31:07.843 --> 00:31:14.405
You know, like to me, I saw his little weird Z and I saw it as an opportunity to take care of him.

00:31:14.405 --> 00:31:18.718
And I knew that by taking care of him, I knew that he could take care of me.

00:31:18.718 --> 00:31:19.508
Yeah.

00:31:19.508 --> 00:31:21.981
And that's ultimately what we hope the comic is about.

00:31:21.981 --> 00:31:32.821
I think that is beautifully illustrated, I think, not just physically, but I think in the story itself, I think it's very apparent from the beginning, whether you know Brad and Lisa or you don't, I think just reading the story, know.

00:31:32.821 --> 00:31:35.022
immediately Lisa that you are in it with him.

00:31:35.022 --> 00:31:39.483
And I think just speaking what you're saying here, it does, you know, misery breeds company in a way.

00:31:39.483 --> 00:31:39.753
Right.

00:31:39.753 --> 00:31:44.454
So if you're able to share that with someone and be like, Hey, listen, this is a real thing.

00:31:44.454 --> 00:31:45.665
This is what's happening.

00:31:45.665 --> 00:31:48.286
If they can't make it better, they can at least be there for you.

00:31:48.286 --> 00:31:49.797
And sometimes that's more important, right?

00:31:49.797 --> 00:31:55.917
Just to understand what the person that you care about is going through in that moment, whether you can make it better or not is really besides the point.

00:31:55.917 --> 00:32:00.816
It's more so that you just make sure that they know that you're there for them for whatever they need.

00:32:00.816 --> 00:32:01.346
Yeah.

00:32:01.346 --> 00:32:01.741
Yeah.

00:32:01.741 --> 00:32:19.489
Yeah, and so much about how we've come to understand our weird Z's is that, you know, I think when I first discovered Lisa's phobia and her general anxiety disorder, I was reading things.

00:32:19.489 --> 00:32:20.470
I remember reading books.

00:32:20.470 --> 00:32:22.661
I know it was so cute.

00:32:22.958 --> 00:32:26.178
He would go like, you know, I was diagnosed with OCD.

00:32:26.178 --> 00:32:28.218
He was he got like an OCD book.

00:32:28.218 --> 00:32:30.377
We were working at Barnes and at the time.

00:32:30.377 --> 00:32:32.438
had eight hours in a bookstore.

00:32:32.458 --> 00:32:34.188
You know, I would go to that.

00:32:34.188 --> 00:32:36.637
It's a giant database of anything that you want to learn about.

00:32:36.637 --> 00:32:38.198
And what is a woman?

00:32:38.198 --> 00:32:39.417
Let's look it up.

00:32:39.417 --> 00:32:40.057
you joke.

00:32:40.057 --> 00:32:41.488
But what is a woman?

00:32:41.488 --> 00:32:44.698
I've read that book and haven't answered the question yet.

00:32:44.698 --> 00:32:46.178
Women for dummies.

00:32:46.258 --> 00:32:48.377
I hear they're from Venus.

00:32:49.157 --> 00:32:51.127
Terrible book, trash book.

00:32:51.127 --> 00:32:53.071
Listen to our Saga episodes.

00:32:54.234 --> 00:32:55.935
shoot, what the heck was I saying?

00:32:55.935 --> 00:33:03.842
but you know, I would, I would try to read and understand about anxiety as a whole and Lisa's particular anxiety disorder.

00:33:03.842 --> 00:33:11.626
And then I would go like, okay, well, how can, how can I help Lisa just be a hundred percent normal?

00:33:12.207 --> 00:33:16.830
You know, and you learn quickly on that it's not about fixing anyone.

00:33:16.830 --> 00:33:18.612
One, you can't fix anybody.

00:33:18.612 --> 00:33:19.772
You can't even fix yourself.

00:33:19.772 --> 00:33:21.857
Well, that's, I mean, you can.

00:33:21.857 --> 00:33:22.778
No, that's not true.

00:33:22.778 --> 00:33:27.221
You can better yourself, but you're going to be you at the end of day.

00:33:27.221 --> 00:33:28.020
yeah.

00:33:28.020 --> 00:33:33.963
Like one of the most important things about this comic that I want people to understand is that neither me nor Brad are cured.

00:33:33.984 --> 00:33:34.384
Yes.

00:33:34.384 --> 00:33:37.747
You know, Brad still has his phobia.

00:33:37.747 --> 00:33:44.810
I still sometimes have panic attacks in public at Disneyland right after San Diego Comic Con.

00:33:44.810 --> 00:33:46.592
And security has to be called.

00:33:46.592 --> 00:33:47.932
It happens.

00:33:48.032 --> 00:33:48.722
It happens.

00:33:48.722 --> 00:33:50.753
But the fact of the matter is.

00:33:50.763 --> 00:33:53.596
We do not find that repellent about each other.

00:33:53.596 --> 00:33:56.339
We're not, we are not disgusted by each other.

00:33:56.339 --> 00:33:57.547
We do not judge each other.

00:33:57.547 --> 00:33:59.743
We just know that that's who the person is.

00:33:59.743 --> 00:34:09.795
like, you know, in exploring the weird z's of Lisa, anxiety disorder, inner phobias, you kind of fall more in love with Lisa.

00:34:09.795 --> 00:34:10.916
I fell more in love with Lisa.

00:34:10.916 --> 00:34:12.137
Some people did not.

00:34:12.137 --> 00:34:12.746
Some...

00:34:12.746 --> 00:34:18.298
There were people who I shared that feel fear with that did not fall in love with Lisa and broke up with Lisa.

00:34:18.298 --> 00:34:19.438
And that is their right.

00:34:19.438 --> 00:34:33.422
But I think that's also an underlining message of our of our very short story as well is that you have to find the person that you can be completely open, that you can drop the performance of and just be you, you and all your weirdsies.

00:34:34.324 --> 00:34:35.074
Isn't that love?

00:34:35.074 --> 00:34:35.514
Right.

00:34:35.514 --> 00:34:39.364
Like you're going to you're we can get along with lot of people.

00:34:39.364 --> 00:34:41.186
We can be attracted to a lot of people.

00:34:41.186 --> 00:34:54.329
We can find common ground with a lot of people, but at the end of the day, and you guys are the love experts, so I'm gonna ask you, I will say what I find really interesting about love is finding that person that is okay with the bad things, right?

00:34:54.329 --> 00:34:56.769
we all, all of us should be self-aware.

00:34:56.889 --> 00:35:01.706
And if we can find someone who doesn't judge us at our worst, right?

00:35:01.706 --> 00:35:05.032
I think that's definitely a building block if nothing else of love.

00:35:05.032 --> 00:35:07.913
Yeah, I would change the word bad things to weird things.

00:35:07.913 --> 00:35:15.838
But like to me, like Brad, when it comes to our relationship have a growth mindset.

00:35:15.838 --> 00:35:18.639
We don't think that our relationship is perfect.

00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:23.574
We are trying to make ourselves better all of the time so that we can be better for each other.

00:35:23.574 --> 00:35:27.867
And we're constantly messing up and we're constantly getting on each other's nerves.

00:35:28.327 --> 00:35:31.650
You know, it may have happened during a podcast recording session.

00:35:31.650 --> 00:35:43.869
But like to me, like it's less about like getting fixed and more about growing a growing and adapting like you look at a tree.

00:35:43.869 --> 00:35:46.929
Yeah, you look at a tree that grows through a sidewalk.

00:35:46.929 --> 00:35:47.690
You know what I mean?

00:35:47.690 --> 00:35:50.659
Or you you see like, I don't know.

00:35:50.659 --> 00:35:52.690
Are you the tree or are you the sidewalk?

00:35:52.690 --> 00:35:55.690
My anxiety is the sidewalk and I'm the tree.

00:35:55.690 --> 00:35:58.630
And I'm just like, nobody's walking here.

00:35:58.630 --> 00:36:00.230
That's the point.

00:36:00.429 --> 00:36:01.889
That's a Captain America quote, right?

00:36:01.889 --> 00:36:02.826
You got to you got to.

00:36:02.826 --> 00:36:04.947
Like an oak tree, you got to stand there tall.

00:36:04.947 --> 00:36:05.527
yeah.

00:36:05.527 --> 00:36:06.317
That's right.

00:36:06.317 --> 00:36:09.208
But like oak trees, you know, they're not perfect.

00:36:09.288 --> 00:36:10.188
Right.

00:36:10.188 --> 00:36:14.068
That's my message today is fuck oak trees.

00:36:14.168 --> 00:36:16.800
you take nothing else from this episode, fuck oak trees.

00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:17.369
All right.

00:36:17.369 --> 00:36:18.909
It's all we like birch over here.

00:36:18.909 --> 00:36:19.320
That's it.

00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:19.918
Nothing else.

00:36:19.918 --> 00:36:21.771
I don't know if our list of our listeners.

00:36:21.771 --> 00:36:23.751
I've claimed your show is mine.

00:36:23.871 --> 00:36:24.442
I don't know.

00:36:24.442 --> 00:36:25.858
I'm sure a lot of our listeners are the same.

00:36:25.858 --> 00:36:26.791
I'm sure.

00:36:27.112 --> 00:36:36.077
I don't know if our listeners could tell or not, but, know, it's This is the first time that we've ever really talked about this story.

00:36:36.077 --> 00:36:40.969
It's the first time we've ever really talked about these fears and we're learning how to talk about them.

00:36:40.969 --> 00:36:52.851
So I feel more vulnerable talking about the seven page short story than I've ever felt on the five years of Comic Book Couples Counseling podcast episodes.

00:36:53.291 --> 00:36:57.432
It's a hell of a thing to go like, this is who I really am.

00:36:58.775 --> 00:37:01.067
Well, we said we were going expose those underbellies here in this episode.

00:37:01.067 --> 00:37:02.188
unsubscribe.

00:37:02.989 --> 00:37:03.972
No, no, no, this is good.

00:37:03.972 --> 00:37:05.099
This is all good stuff.

00:37:05.099 --> 00:37:11.353
you know, Brad, honestly, if I may, I again, I feel so appreciative that you guys allow me to read this early and I'm obviously going to back this.

00:37:11.353 --> 00:37:13.815
I hope everybody that's listening this backs this at some point.

00:37:13.815 --> 00:37:15.005
When does this go live?

00:37:15.005 --> 00:37:16.295
If they can afford it.

00:37:16.295 --> 00:37:16.567
Sure.

00:37:16.567 --> 00:37:17.166
Yeah, of course.

00:37:17.166 --> 00:37:20.699
So I believe it's live right now to your listeners.

00:37:20.699 --> 00:37:26.094
It launched on October 7th, October 8th, October 8th.

00:37:26.094 --> 00:37:26.684
October 8th.

00:37:26.684 --> 00:37:27.233
Okay, cool.

00:37:27.233 --> 00:37:27.423
Yeah.

00:37:27.423 --> 00:37:29.014
So it will already be live everyone.

00:37:29.014 --> 00:37:34.016
I will have a link in the show notes just for everybody, just in case, but of course, pots and panels over on Kickstarter.

00:37:34.135 --> 00:37:36.686
But my exposing goes a little further here, Brad.

00:37:36.686 --> 00:37:46.559
And you can tell me no, if you want, but I'm just curious because I was talking to this about my girlfriend, talking to this about the way I was talking to my girlfriend about this the other day, about my fear.

00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:49.121
Again, the heights is one thing.

00:37:49.121 --> 00:37:52.570
I also, I sort of view this in horror films as well, right?

00:37:52.570 --> 00:37:54.594
Like that's why some of us love horror films.

00:37:54.594 --> 00:37:57.215
We are in October after all, this is the spoopy season.

00:37:57.215 --> 00:38:00.757
So we like to sort of trick ourselves into fear.

00:38:00.757 --> 00:38:04.338
I love whenever I get swept up in a horror film, it makes me feel.

00:38:04.338 --> 00:38:07.920
It happens less and less as I get old and old and old and old.

00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.079
Exactly same.

00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:12.920
And I want to peel back a layer here, Brad, if you don't mind.

00:38:13.422 --> 00:38:19.494
We talk about you, you get, we get looks at this fear throughout the book and these seven pages that we have here.

00:38:19.494 --> 00:38:21.625
And of course, Lisa is narrating this whole thing.

00:38:21.625 --> 00:38:23.925
I'm curious from your perspective.

00:38:24.085 --> 00:38:28.190
What does this feel like for you when you see this food, which is again, it's a vegetable.

00:38:28.190 --> 00:38:29.530
Can I say what the vegetable is?

00:38:29.530 --> 00:38:30.041
Yeah, sure.

00:38:30.041 --> 00:38:31.565
OK, I don't know if that bothers you or not.

00:38:31.565 --> 00:38:32.512
It's peas, everybody.

00:38:32.512 --> 00:38:35.786
It's peas or it's small circular things.

00:38:35.786 --> 00:38:36.947
It's polsophobia.

00:38:36.947 --> 00:38:37.117
Yeah.

00:38:37.117 --> 00:38:39.978
And it and mostly it's peas, but it can be anything.

00:38:39.978 --> 00:38:41.701
It can be blueberries.

00:38:41.701 --> 00:38:42.802
It can be.

00:38:42.802 --> 00:38:44.242
Can you do a bubble?

00:38:44.242 --> 00:38:44.753
No.

00:38:44.753 --> 00:38:48.646
Well, he can, but he has to really disassociate.

00:38:49.648 --> 00:38:52.876
I like boba tea, but it's like, you know, like.

00:38:52.876 --> 00:38:55.996
You know, the thing I love the most that involves this vegetable or samosas.

00:38:55.996 --> 00:39:01.820
I mean, you know, I love eating food and, you know, you'll you'll bite into a samosa.

00:39:01.820 --> 00:39:03.210
You like this tastes so good.

00:39:03.210 --> 00:39:07.893
And then I'll catch it in the corner of my eye and then I will get a shudder.

00:39:07.893 --> 00:39:08.422
Yeah.

00:39:08.422 --> 00:39:12.554
A shiver that ripples across my whole body.

00:39:12.554 --> 00:39:20.038
And I have this thing and I don't know if this is imaginary, but I call it the wavy eyeball.

00:39:20.972 --> 00:39:21.233
sure.

00:39:21.233 --> 00:39:21.943
Yeah.

00:39:21.943 --> 00:39:27.945
Where I feel like a ripple, like a whirlpool go through my eyes.

00:39:28.061 --> 00:39:35.422
In my imagination, if you're looking at me when I see one of these things, like my eyes roll all the way back into my head.

00:39:35.422 --> 00:39:38.112
It does get pretty close.

00:39:38.112 --> 00:39:40.784
He does look pretty disgusted.

00:39:40.784 --> 00:39:40.943
like...

00:39:40.943 --> 00:39:41.784
Do get the sweats?

00:39:41.784 --> 00:39:42.574
Yeah.

00:39:42.574 --> 00:39:45.376
I am super sweating right now, actually.

00:39:45.376 --> 00:39:47.097
And I get really, really hot.

00:39:47.097 --> 00:39:48.577
I get really, really hot.

00:39:48.646 --> 00:39:56.751
And depending on my mood on the day, you know, it can be worse or not as bad.

00:39:56.751 --> 00:40:00.574
There are days where I'll encounter it and it'll be like no big deal, you know.

00:40:00.574 --> 00:40:11.523
But even if I'm walking down the frozen vegetable aisle and we walk past this wall of frozen versions of those goddamn things, that'll bother me.

00:40:11.523 --> 00:40:15.309
I was with the grocery at the grocery store with my dad not too long ago.

00:40:15.309 --> 00:40:18.110
And he wanted to go down to the vegetables because he wanted to go to the Brussels sprouts.

00:40:18.110 --> 00:40:19.710
But the Brussels sprouts right next to that thing.

00:40:19.710 --> 00:40:20.929
And I didn't like it.

00:40:20.929 --> 00:40:22.559
And I just turned my back to him.

00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:23.010
Yeah.

00:40:23.010 --> 00:40:24.809
It was like, I'm going to the magazine section, Dad.

00:40:24.809 --> 00:40:25.530
I'll see you in a bit.

00:40:25.530 --> 00:40:27.849
But it's not like the fun fear.

00:40:27.849 --> 00:40:31.769
So like we both love horror, horror movies.

00:40:31.769 --> 00:40:37.329
And we do like that kind of like we watch true crime.

00:40:37.389 --> 00:40:40.489
We we really horror movies, roller coasters.

00:40:40.489 --> 00:40:41.650
I love heights.

00:40:41.650 --> 00:40:43.981
You know, when we were in Chicago, of course, we went up.

00:40:43.981 --> 00:40:45.431
to the top of the Sears Tower.

00:40:45.431 --> 00:40:48.402
I know it's not called that anymore, but come on, it's the Sears Tower.

00:40:48.601 --> 00:40:55.041
And I loved going into that glass box and just floating above the city.

00:40:55.442 --> 00:40:58.481
Yeah, that would be me sweaty and squiggly eyes.

00:40:58.481 --> 00:41:02.342
If we were up there, if I was up there with you guys, we flirt with the darkness, right?

00:41:02.342 --> 00:41:04.005
But we would not.

00:41:04.726 --> 00:41:08.230
We would not watch a movie that centers around any of our phobias.

00:41:08.230 --> 00:41:10.210
And it will happen occasionally, right?

00:41:10.210 --> 00:41:18.458
I can think of a movie right now, Frailty, a great film with Bill Paxton, but there's a dinner table sequence and there's a big bowl of peas on the dinner table.

00:41:18.458 --> 00:41:22.380
I can't remember which, I think it's the first dinner.

00:41:22.481 --> 00:41:25.985
And you know, I think about that dinner table to this day.

00:41:25.985 --> 00:41:27.436
That movie's old.

00:41:27.447 --> 00:41:29.980
Does it feel like peas are sort of exiting our culture a little bit?

00:41:29.980 --> 00:41:31.572
Like don't see peas as much as I used to.

00:41:31.572 --> 00:41:31.911
Yeah.

00:41:31.911 --> 00:41:32.331
Yeah.

00:41:32.331 --> 00:41:33.914
For Brad's sake, I hope it really is exiting.

00:41:33.914 --> 00:41:38.967
Luckily there like there is spring vegetables, so we are entering fall.

00:41:38.967 --> 00:41:41.331
So we're entering a safe zone.

00:41:41.331 --> 00:41:41.701
Yeah.

00:41:41.701 --> 00:41:46.155
But, but, but, but, but I have gotten so much better, everyone.

00:41:46.155 --> 00:41:47.695
I promise you.

00:41:47.835 --> 00:41:49.797
I can eat samosas.

00:41:49.797 --> 00:41:54.222
I can have boba tea, but it's one of those things where I just have to tell myself.

00:41:54.222 --> 00:41:56.202
I like boba tea as I'm drinking it.

00:41:56.202 --> 00:41:56.952
This is great.

00:41:56.952 --> 00:41:57.851
I love this.

00:41:57.851 --> 00:41:59.791
It really is a love tank thing.

00:41:59.791 --> 00:42:06.681
Like if he is low anxiety, happy, go lucky, you know, like he can deal with whatever.

00:42:06.681 --> 00:42:20.998
But, know, we all know when we are on the edge, you know, just like stress wise, self-esteem wise, you know, maybe love tank wise, we're feeling hurt and we don't want to be messing with the things that make us feel the it.

00:42:21.315 --> 00:42:28.590
well, like I said, I I found it really admirable that you were able to do this, you know, like, yeah.

00:42:28.849 --> 00:42:30.351
Sorry, I'm interrupting you.

00:42:30.351 --> 00:42:31.166
No, no, no.

00:42:31.166 --> 00:42:31.862
I'm excited.

00:42:31.862 --> 00:42:32.572
I'm so excited.

00:42:32.572 --> 00:42:33.632
I'm so nervous.

00:42:33.632 --> 00:42:35.693
I'm so squig squig down.

00:42:35.954 --> 00:42:40.277
That was the thing when Lisa pitched me the idea is like, you know, the story we should really write.

00:42:40.277 --> 00:42:42.577
It should be a memoir and it should be about your phobia.

00:42:42.577 --> 00:42:44.219
And I was like, no, no, no, no, no.

00:42:44.219 --> 00:43:00.099
But as I was thinking about it and as that Darwin cook page came into my mind, I think because it was so scary to me or so, not scary, but like such a ridiculous idea because I rejected it so quickly.

00:43:00.099 --> 00:43:06.070
I was like, well, maybe I should run toward that rejection because it is pretty weird.

00:43:06.070 --> 00:43:08.309
And maybe that is interesting.

00:43:08.309 --> 00:43:12.760
And I don't know what other types of stories are going to be in this Pots and Panels anthology.

00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:13.309
I've seen them now.

00:43:13.309 --> 00:43:17.063
There's lots of good stuff, a lot of different genres, a lot of different styles.

00:43:17.063 --> 00:43:22.358
There are other horror stories in there, but there's only one story about the vegetable.

00:43:22.358 --> 00:43:25.028
I think it fit the assignment so well.

00:43:25.028 --> 00:43:28.262
It just made sense after I thought about it for a couple of days.

00:43:29.123 --> 00:43:32.545
What was the recipe that you guys provided for this book?

00:43:32.545 --> 00:43:33.436
Are you able to say that yet?

00:43:33.436 --> 00:43:34.427
Yeah, yeah.

00:43:34.427 --> 00:43:39.650
It's a casserole version of vegetable pot pie.

00:43:39.751 --> 00:43:45.402
And early in our relationship, after I found out Brad's phobia.

00:43:45.402 --> 00:43:49.382
I had diagnosed Brad's phobia from my armchair.

00:43:50.021 --> 00:43:50.702
Dr.

00:43:50.702 --> 00:43:52.422
Lisa is here and ready.

00:43:52.422 --> 00:43:59.481
I was like, well, what are all of the foods that you feel like you love but can't eat because of the vegetable?

00:43:59.942 --> 00:44:04.052
And chicken pot pie was one of the first things he mentioned.

00:44:04.052 --> 00:44:06.101
And I was like, that's what I should make for you.

00:44:06.101 --> 00:44:07.592
I should make chicken pot pie.

00:44:07.592 --> 00:44:09.791
You can never trust the chicken pot pie.

00:44:09.791 --> 00:44:12.284
Now here's the problem.

00:44:12.942 --> 00:44:18.905
I'm afraid of raw chicken and most cooked chicken.

00:44:18.905 --> 00:44:25.268
So it took me a long time to get around to even this iteration of a casserole version of a pot pie.

00:44:25.268 --> 00:44:28.731
So it is a highly adaptable recipe.

00:44:28.731 --> 00:44:35.443
If you're afraid of any of the vegetables or any of the ingredients, they're easily swapped out.

00:44:35.545 --> 00:44:37.217
And I'm really proud of the recipe.

00:44:37.217 --> 00:44:38.148
took some testing.

00:44:38.148 --> 00:44:40.449
I'd never really had to create a recipe before.

00:44:40.449 --> 00:44:40.719
Yeah.

00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:41.389
That was the thing.

00:44:41.389 --> 00:44:44.733
Like I told Lisa's like, we don't need to create a whole new recipe.

00:44:44.733 --> 00:44:47.905
We can just like lightly adapt a classic.

00:44:47.905 --> 00:44:50.005
Overachiever over here.

00:44:50.005 --> 00:44:51.978
I didn't start from scratch.

00:44:51.978 --> 00:44:55.791
I did a lot of research and I came up with something.

00:44:55.791 --> 00:44:57.181
We tested it.

00:44:57.282 --> 00:44:57.972
It's yummy.

00:44:57.972 --> 00:44:59.233
Yeah, we're going to test it again.

00:44:59.233 --> 00:45:02.626
It's squick free for us, which is very good.

00:45:02.626 --> 00:45:03.795
No wiggly eyes included.

00:45:03.795 --> 00:45:04.567
Yeah.

00:45:04.567 --> 00:45:06.597
And it's a sneaky vegan recipe.

00:45:06.597 --> 00:45:10.420
So if you're vegan, is very like it's vegan forward.

00:45:10.420 --> 00:45:13.632
And if you want it to be not vegan, you can use whatever you want.

00:45:13.632 --> 00:45:16.784
Well, and I will say sort of all encompassing.

00:45:16.784 --> 00:45:20.356
I think you guys are some of the more wonderful people I've known.

00:45:20.356 --> 00:45:26.715
And I think the story not only highlights what's so great about you guys, but it's It also sort of highlights how we should all react to stuff like this.

00:45:26.715 --> 00:45:34.800
You know, we talked about it multiple times throughout this conversation that, you know, when people present their fears, if they do expose their own, belly for whatever reason, I catch myself.

00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:38.143
And I want to tie this all together is that my reaction often is to laugh.

00:45:38.143 --> 00:45:40.844
You know, I'm so that's how I rationalize things.

00:45:40.844 --> 00:45:44.268
And I asked you Brad about how you handle things when you're afraid.

00:45:44.268 --> 00:45:46.349
That's how I handle things when I'm afraid.

00:45:46.349 --> 00:45:49.050
If I am freaked out, I sweat and I laugh.

00:45:49.050 --> 00:45:51.333
I don't know why that's my reaction, but it is.

00:45:51.333 --> 00:45:53.675
And you know, I think.

00:45:53.675 --> 00:45:56.577
What this story does so well is that you guys are there for each other.

00:45:56.577 --> 00:46:06.905
That's what I'm trying to say here is that like the whole point of this whole thing is that like regardless of what you're afraid of or whatever your thing is, if you've got someone there, someone there to lean on, none of this is weird.

00:46:06.905 --> 00:46:10.697
Actually, in my opinion, I think it all is fine because eventually you're going to have someone there that you can lean on.

00:46:10.697 --> 00:46:23.585
Yeah, I like because of my anxiety disorder and my just being a generally anxious person like I did face a lot of rejection and judgment and teasing.

00:46:23.614 --> 00:46:26.335
and those types of things.

00:46:26.355 --> 00:46:38.019
But I never stopped putting my anxiety out there because I just wanted people to know why I was crying.

00:46:38.019 --> 00:46:52.065
So I think that by putting your real self out there and going like, these are the things that trigger me, in a tight spot, I'm gonna be a mess and that's just who I am.

00:46:52.065 --> 00:46:57.532
by just wearing yourself on your sleeve, you're going to find the people who are like people who are like you.

00:46:57.532 --> 00:47:04.269
If you're out in the universe trying to be not like yourself, the people who like you are not going to like you.

00:47:04.269 --> 00:47:17.603
And I think the thing that I have learned through loving Lisa is that life outside of your skull is very different than what's inside your skull.

00:47:17.663 --> 00:47:33.271
You know, so often you'll approach something It could be an idea, it could be a comic book, a piece of art, and you're gonna judge it based on your being, your experiences, what has made you.

00:47:33.271 --> 00:47:38.972
And sometimes you get caught in the trap of, well, that's how anybody would judge this thing, right?

00:47:38.972 --> 00:47:51.577
But the people around you are living entirely different experiences, and we're all on so many different types of spectrums.

00:47:51.585 --> 00:48:03.291
that the best thing that we can do is be curious about what actually is going on in somebody else's skull and not assume what's going on in somebody else's skull.

00:48:03.851 --> 00:48:06.733
Yeah, we're all unreliable narrators in a way, right?

00:48:06.733 --> 00:48:08.793
Well, that's true too.

00:48:08.914 --> 00:48:11.184
You know, Lisa, you sort of alluded to this earlier.

00:48:11.184 --> 00:48:13.556
I am so unabashedly Chris at all times.

00:48:13.556 --> 00:48:22.943
And I think it's just because I ceased caring what anyone thought and sort of what you guys were saying in terms of like You sort of just have to be yourself and the folks that like you do and the folks that don't don't.

00:48:22.943 --> 00:48:24.605
And that's not, you know, there's nothing you can help.

00:48:24.605 --> 00:48:26.115
People are going to not like you for no reason.

00:48:26.115 --> 00:48:27.416
People are going to love you for no reason.

00:48:27.416 --> 00:48:41.730
But I think it's really important that when we find someone like you guys have found each other and like people in our lives who accept us for who we are and, fully embrace that and also cater to certain things in that other person's life, we got, we got to hold onto that.

00:48:41.730 --> 00:48:42.610
We got to grasp at that.

00:48:42.610 --> 00:48:44.101
We need to keep that close.

00:48:44.101 --> 00:48:48.431
And I think that's very, I almost it's sweetly.

00:48:48.431 --> 00:48:49.452
That's not a word.

00:48:49.481 --> 00:48:54.994
It's very charming and perfectly illustrated in this seven page story.

00:48:54.994 --> 00:48:58.525
I think just with peas, which Brad doesn't love.

00:48:58.525 --> 00:49:03.588
So I think we got about maybe about 10 minutes here and we continue.

00:49:03.588 --> 00:49:04.027
I don't care.

00:49:04.027 --> 00:49:15.632
But I want to talk about just podcasting comics because when we're together, every time that us three are together or us three with other people are together, we're often just talking about all types of things that the cons and such.

00:49:15.632 --> 00:49:18.134
We're to be at New York here in about two weeks.

00:49:18.134 --> 00:49:20.355
Everyone that's listening to this right now, we're probably already there.

00:49:20.355 --> 00:49:21.635
The third week of October.

00:49:21.635 --> 00:49:23.005
What are you guys doing to get prepared?

00:49:23.005 --> 00:49:30.456
You guys often have these incredible schedules of not only creator interviews, but panels and what have you.

00:49:30.557 --> 00:49:33.648
What's some things that you guys are getting prepared for if you can divulge?

00:49:33.648 --> 00:49:39.380
Well, this is going to be one of the most unique convention experiences of our lives.

00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:44.061
Like October is nuts for comic book couples counseling.

00:49:44.061 --> 00:49:46.061
I don't know how all this happened.

00:49:46.061 --> 00:49:52.242
but we were invited by Readpop to host the Harvey Awards on Friday night.

00:49:52.242 --> 00:49:54.181
Yay, I'm so excited.

00:49:54.181 --> 00:49:55.572
Yeah, that's amazing.

00:49:55.572 --> 00:49:56.842
That is surreal.

00:49:56.842 --> 00:50:10.101
Making a comic is surreal and being asked to host the Harvey Awards on the centennial of Harvey Kurtzman, a cartoonist that we consider to be one of the founding fathers of comics.

00:50:10.101 --> 00:50:15.918
You put him up there with Jack Kirby and Will Eisner and Bill Gaines and...

00:50:15.918 --> 00:50:18.878
Siegel and Schuster and Charles Schultz.

00:50:18.878 --> 00:50:29.217
like, know, Kurtzman means so much to this community and whether people know they are being influenced by Harvey Kurtzman or not, they are being influenced by Harvey Kurtzman.

00:50:29.217 --> 00:50:38.728
So to lead the Harvey Awards this year is an immense honor, an immense honor.

00:50:38.728 --> 00:50:41.367
And we are crazy nervous about it.

00:50:41.367 --> 00:50:41.617
Yeah.

00:50:41.617 --> 00:50:46.117
So a lot of our energy is going towards preparing for that.

00:50:46.233 --> 00:50:48.545
But we also have a ton of like episodes coming out.

00:50:48.545 --> 00:51:02.219
Like, you know, when we came out of San Diego Comic Con, we had got so much, so many interviews that were like, OK, well, we're going to have to put out two interviews a week to get all of this stuff out.

00:51:02.219 --> 00:51:04.398
And then it turned out to be three interviews a week.

00:51:04.398 --> 00:51:06.827
And we're like, we are never doing this again.

00:51:06.827 --> 00:51:08.981
That was like way too much.

00:51:08.981 --> 00:51:14.251
But now as we're preparing for New York Comic Con and everything happening with.

00:51:14.286 --> 00:51:23.525
DC and the All In Initiative and then also like, you know, getting opportunities connecting through the Harvey board and all that stuff.

00:51:23.525 --> 00:51:29.635
We're doing three episodes a week, these two weeks leading up to New York Comic Con.

00:51:29.635 --> 00:51:34.275
And we are we are so excited and we are also overwhelmed.

00:51:34.275 --> 00:51:37.405
We don't do well at saying no.

00:51:37.405 --> 00:51:39.346
We're pretty excitable people.

00:51:39.346 --> 00:51:48.068
So when opportunities present themselves, we grab at them and We're learning to manage our schedules a little bit better.

00:51:48.068 --> 00:51:53.521
you know, we're really exercising like how much can we do?

00:51:53.521 --> 00:51:59.382
How much can we do and in two weeks without completely losing our minds?

00:51:59.382 --> 00:52:06.583
the Harvey's is a situation we've never done before and it requires a lot more prep, a lot more conversations.

00:52:06.583 --> 00:52:08.054
different type of prep.

00:52:08.054 --> 00:52:12.786
Yeah, with people that manage the Harvey's every year.

00:52:14.326 --> 00:52:16.407
And yeah, like, you know, it's exciting.

00:52:16.407 --> 00:52:16.936
It's exciting.

00:52:16.936 --> 00:52:18.818
We're nervous about it, but we're also confident about it.

00:52:18.818 --> 00:52:20.027
It's going to be a good time.

00:52:20.027 --> 00:52:20.461
Yeah.

00:52:20.461 --> 00:52:22.409
You guys working on your ratatat?

00:52:22.409 --> 00:52:26.949
Little jokes and all the We haven't even started scripting yet.

00:52:26.949 --> 00:52:31.641
we're still just yesterday, we just got the outline for how the whole thing is going to go.

00:52:31.641 --> 00:52:40.320
But it's a lot like writing our comics script where we're just kind of, you know, as we go throughout our day, we just kind of throw our like...

00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:44.842
In the ideal circumstance, I would love to say this or I would love to highlight that.

00:52:44.842 --> 00:52:59.141
So I think like the first part of our creative process is always like, OK, I'm going to set this on my inner vision board and I'm just going to walk around with my heart and mind open and see what comes to us.

00:52:59.141 --> 00:53:07.324
actually, we have been going to like one of our like activities is, of course, going to use bookstores and going through the comics and stuff.

00:53:07.326 --> 00:53:08.137
And.

00:53:08.137 --> 00:53:15.141
Literally, there hasn't been a place we've gone where something of Harvey Kurtzman hasn't fallen into our lap.

00:53:15.141 --> 00:53:19.802
So like right now we're very much in the capturing the spirit.

00:53:20.342 --> 00:53:22.244
Like, you know, yeah, yeah.

00:53:22.244 --> 00:53:29.867
You know, we're reading a biography of course, like we were we were already huge Kurtzman fans going into this.

00:53:30.246 --> 00:53:37.322
But as we are approaching the big day, we want to make sure that we're like living in the life of Harvey Kurtzman.

00:53:37.322 --> 00:53:41.862
And so, like Lisa said, these books are just jumping off of bookshelves for us.

00:53:41.862 --> 00:53:43.264
And it's like, we got to get that.

00:53:43.264 --> 00:53:43.903
We got to read this.

00:53:43.903 --> 00:53:45.023
We got to read that.

00:53:45.023 --> 00:53:52.827
And I think if we can just accomplish one thing, it's just be reverent to Harvey Kurtzman while we're up there.

00:53:52.827 --> 00:54:00.108
Of course, like the thing that makes the Harvey Awards different from, the Eisners is it's a closed audience, right?

00:54:00.108 --> 00:54:04.525
It's really just the industry that's in attendance.

00:54:04.525 --> 00:54:08.306
observing the awards and the presentations and the speeches.

00:54:08.306 --> 00:54:18.135
And so with that, it's got a very different vibe, but also the industry is there, Like Marie Javids is there looking at you.

00:54:18.135 --> 00:54:21.806
You're just like, She's got Heidi MacDonald looking at you.

00:54:21.806 --> 00:54:26.146
But Upside, it's like not three hours long.

00:54:26.146 --> 00:54:27.465
like 90 minutes.

00:54:27.465 --> 00:54:28.326
It's 90 minutes.

00:54:28.326 --> 00:54:30.597
And their categories are very like.

00:54:30.945 --> 00:54:40.072
Volume focus like they don't have like best writer best letterer, you know, like that kind of thing It's more like the broader categories.

00:54:40.072 --> 00:54:48.829
Yeah, they like to celebrate the entire work of the comic the entire work Yeah, I didn't realize it was only 90 minutes you guys how many jokes can you guys fit in 90 minutes?

00:54:48.829 --> 00:54:51.860
That's not gonna be many jokes No election jokes.

00:54:51.860 --> 00:54:52.652
What what's going on?

00:54:52.652 --> 00:54:53.452
No jokes.

00:54:53.452 --> 00:55:03.302
No musical numbers utterly sincere like honestly the only guy Guidelines they gave us is like, hey, we would love it to end early.

00:55:03.782 --> 00:55:08.081
If you guys can knock this out in a solid 80 minutes, we are good to go.

00:55:08.402 --> 00:55:08.681
man.

00:55:08.681 --> 00:55:10.282
Well, you guys are nothing if not studied.

00:55:10.282 --> 00:55:13.911
I'll say that anytime you guys do anything, it feels like you guys are prepared and ready to go.

00:55:13.911 --> 00:55:16.681
Whether you guys really are or not, it comes across that way.

00:55:16.681 --> 00:55:18.581
So I have no doubt that you guys will absolutely kill it.

00:55:18.581 --> 00:55:19.961
Now I just need to figure out a way to get there.

00:55:19.961 --> 00:55:21.652
I want to see this thing happen in real time.

00:55:21.652 --> 00:55:23.161
So I'll be your guys's trailer.

00:55:23.161 --> 00:55:26.342
Anytime you guys bumble or doing I'm like, whoa, yeah.

00:55:26.342 --> 00:55:27.333
But.

00:55:29.887 --> 00:55:44.246
And I've said this, at least I've told you this, I'm going to tell everyone here, know, and I've brought, even told you this when we went to go see, or when we went to a third eye comics earlier this year, Lisa, you have been absolutely killing it with the color commentary commentary, Terry Jesus on the show.

00:55:44.246 --> 00:55:47.128
You are like the ultimate funny guy.

00:55:47.128 --> 00:55:47.686
that's so funny.

00:55:47.686 --> 00:55:53.030
Like you are legitimately, unironically hilarious in every episode of the combo couples counseling.

00:55:53.030 --> 00:55:54.222
That is so kind.

00:55:54.222 --> 00:56:02.431
It's not like you haven't always been, but I feel like within the last year, you have you have like totally embraced the role of just like funny guy.

00:56:02.431 --> 00:56:12.242
I don't know if I'm like embracing a role as much as I'm just like like interviews are so so uncomfortable for me.

00:56:12.242 --> 00:56:21.961
And so when I do them like so even when I'm doing the intros and outros, I'm thinking about how uncomfortable I am talking to strangers.

00:56:21.961 --> 00:56:28.625
And I think like The silly billiness is kind of like how I cut tension, I guess.

00:56:28.625 --> 00:56:29.545
yeah.

00:56:29.545 --> 00:56:30.525
I don't know.

00:56:30.525 --> 00:56:32.586
I grew up in a funny family.

00:56:32.586 --> 00:56:35.447
All of my siblings are hilarious.

00:56:35.447 --> 00:56:38.269
I think it's just, I don't know.

00:56:39.501 --> 00:56:42.923
I would love to take the compliment, but it's fully a defense mechanism.

00:56:42.923 --> 00:56:44.724
have no control no, I can't take this.

00:56:44.724 --> 00:56:45.405
apologize.

00:56:45.405 --> 00:56:47.356
Here are all the excuses of why I'm like this.

00:56:47.356 --> 00:56:48.766
Here's why I'm like this.

00:56:48.766 --> 00:56:50.498
I'm uncomfortable in my skin.

00:56:50.498 --> 00:56:51.960
Is that good podcasting?

00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:52.188
It's true.

00:56:52.188 --> 00:56:55.791
Yeah, that's how you, everyone, if you want to be funny, you just have to be really self-conscious.

00:56:55.791 --> 00:56:57.092
That's how you do it everybody.

00:56:57.092 --> 00:56:58.213
Yeah.

00:56:58.432 --> 00:57:00.534
Well, you know, I want to, of course, yeah.

00:57:00.534 --> 00:57:04.237
And I want to quickly just go through some of the guests you guys have had on recently.

00:57:04.237 --> 00:57:06.742
And then maybe we can talk about maybe some people you'll be talking about.

00:57:06.742 --> 00:57:07.842
at New York.

00:57:07.842 --> 00:57:13.766
we've got Gail Simone was on recently talking about Misty, Jason Aaron talking about TMNT, Wes Craig talking about Kaia.

00:57:13.766 --> 00:57:20.039
We've got Joey and Sean over at the pedestrian, the pedestrian crew, Joshua Williamson, Tom King and Daniel Sampear.

00:57:20.039 --> 00:57:20.789
That was a good one.

00:57:20.789 --> 00:57:24.512
I like how Tom just like kept budding in and you guys' conversation that time.

00:57:24.512 --> 00:57:25.931
was so funny.

00:57:25.931 --> 00:57:27.822
Judy Ba on for the third time.

00:57:27.822 --> 00:57:28.753
Yeah.

00:57:28.753 --> 00:57:29.463
Been on a couple of times.

00:57:29.463 --> 00:57:30.224
Yeah, three times.

00:57:30.224 --> 00:57:31.594
We're huge fans.

00:57:31.775 --> 00:57:36.237
Rom V that's, you know, Brad and I, talked about this conversation far in advance.

00:57:36.237 --> 00:57:43.438
We had Ram on the show here talking about, well, actually we had, we had both Ram and, why am I spacing his name now?

00:57:43.438 --> 00:57:44.818
The artist.

00:57:45.068 --> 00:57:45.838
no, no.

00:57:45.838 --> 00:57:46.757
artist.

00:57:47.398 --> 00:57:48.208
thank you.

00:57:48.208 --> 00:57:48.648
Evan Cagle.

00:57:48.648 --> 00:57:50.498
We had them both on and that was a tough interview.

00:57:50.498 --> 00:57:55.018
And I think you guys absolutely killed it with that talking about Jack Kirby and the new God's book that's coming out here soon.

00:57:55.398 --> 00:57:57.657
we got Mark Wade and, Mark Mariko Tamaki.

00:57:57.657 --> 00:57:57.838
Jesus.

00:57:57.838 --> 00:57:58.998
I couldn't say her name.

00:57:58.998 --> 00:58:03.574
talking about Batman, Superman, all the things James Tynan talking about tiny onion.

00:58:03.626 --> 00:58:03.976
my gosh.

00:58:03.976 --> 00:58:15.465
There's I mean, Heather Antos, Ryan North, Daniel Warren Johnson, Riley Rossimo on again, Alex Ross and Brad I text you this as I was listening to the conversation with you guys with Alex Ross and Steve Darnell talking about Uncle Sam.

00:58:15.465 --> 00:58:18.826
mean, honestly might be my new favorite CBCC conversation.

00:58:18.826 --> 00:58:19.454
It was so great.

00:58:19.454 --> 00:58:20.885
That was really special.

00:58:20.885 --> 00:58:21.996
That was a great conversation.

00:58:21.996 --> 00:58:23.146
They were wonderful.

00:58:23.146 --> 00:58:23.545
Yeah.

00:58:23.545 --> 00:58:33.702
And you know, you guys often put on a good conversation, but it was so great to hear those just true geniuses talking about this book, a book that was Pretty unsung for a long time.

00:58:33.702 --> 00:58:39.702
think this election edition, if you want to call it, I guess that's what it's called, hopefully exposed a little bit more.

00:58:39.702 --> 00:58:40.987
It was just a great conversation.

00:58:40.987 --> 00:58:47.666
was if I were to present what you guys do so well on the Humble Couples Counseling, I would hand them this conversation with with Alex and Steve.

00:58:47.666 --> 00:58:52.532
I think like the special sauce for that one is that they are such old friends.

00:58:53.032 --> 00:59:00.856
And, you know, a lot of that conversation was just Brad and Lisa, like giving permission and getting out of the way.

00:59:01.681 --> 00:59:02.012
Yeah.

00:59:02.012 --> 00:59:03.463
Aren't those the best interviews though?

00:59:03.463 --> 00:59:06.083
Just like, let them talk.

00:59:06.443 --> 00:59:07.034
Exactly.

00:59:07.034 --> 00:59:07.434
Yeah.

00:59:07.434 --> 00:59:08.235
Really proud of that.

00:59:08.235 --> 00:59:18.048
I mean, I think the last three months have been three of the best months of Comic Book Couples Counseling's career, lifespan, history, whatever you want to call it.

00:59:18.429 --> 00:59:27.853
And, you know, I also just want to highlight our conversation with Patrick McDonald about Muts, which just celebrated his 30th anniversary.

00:59:27.853 --> 00:59:30.327
And he put out a beautiful book.

00:59:30.327 --> 00:59:36.360
called Breaking the Chain, the guard dog story that I would encourage Wednesday warriors to seek out.

00:59:36.360 --> 00:59:41.641
know, Mutts is not Superman, know, Mutts is not the X-Men.

00:59:41.641 --> 00:59:42.911
It's something very different.

00:59:42.911 --> 00:59:54.978
But this guard dog story, which was a serialized story told over seven weeks in the pages of, you know, your syndicated newspapers, I found it to be an extremely beautiful book.

00:59:54.978 --> 01:00:00.942
that has lodged its way into my heart and into my brain and has me thinking about things differently.

01:00:00.942 --> 01:00:06.606
I think it is a book that is going to be very helpful going into the election for me.

01:00:06.686 --> 01:00:19.005
And Patrick McDonald as a human being and a cartoonist is somebody that I am folding into my titans of comics.

01:00:19.005 --> 01:00:20.516
Yeah, sure.

01:00:20.516 --> 01:00:22.317
Yeah, I will say that.

01:00:22.478 --> 01:00:38.038
that interview with Patrick, which I haven't had a chance to listen to yet, but it's it's interviews like this because of course you talked to Scott Snyder and Christian Ward here recently as well, but it's conversations like those that again, I think and I apologize for butting you guys up continuously here, but I like it.

01:00:38.038 --> 01:00:42.677
You guys are some of the biggest cheerleaders in the medium, whether the masses see this or not.

01:00:42.677 --> 01:00:43.407
And I think they are.

01:00:43.407 --> 01:00:53.351
like it, regardless of whether people were listening to the show or not, I think you guys would continue to still be just these giant cheerleaders for the medium and It's nice to see that you guys are able to finally write a comic.

01:00:53.351 --> 01:01:02.293
It's nice to see that you guys are hosting the Harvey Awards because it is people like you that we should be putting up on these pedestals on the stage and going, hey, this is why comics are cool.

01:01:02.293 --> 01:01:09.114
Like if there was a poster child for, hey, comics are cool, dude, and here's why, it would be you guys holding up both sides of that sign.

01:01:09.114 --> 01:01:20.898
Well, it was really sweet when the Harvey board was laying out their qualifications for who is suitable for hosting or whatever.

01:01:20.954 --> 01:01:29.059
And it really came down to we want people who really love comics and know their stuff.

01:01:29.059 --> 01:01:33.400
you know, like, and I think that we would check and check.

01:01:33.400 --> 01:01:37.983
We would be those people regardless of whether we had a podcast.

01:01:37.983 --> 01:01:39.585
have a podcast or not.

01:01:39.585 --> 01:01:47.509
And like just like you said, like we know that there's going to be a day when the interviews dry up.

01:01:47.509 --> 01:01:48.420
You know what I mean?

01:01:48.420 --> 01:01:49.132
But Brad.

01:01:49.132 --> 01:01:53.144
Lisa will still be having those conversations that we love to have.

01:01:53.144 --> 01:01:55.186
And maybe we'll have some time for some couple sessions.

01:01:55.186 --> 01:01:57.088
I don't know.

01:01:57.088 --> 01:02:04.672
You know, like it's like it seems like like we found a cheat code to talk to all of these really cool people.

01:02:04.672 --> 01:02:10.637
And we really don't think we don't we really don't see it as anything that we've earned or deserved.

01:02:10.637 --> 01:02:16.822
We just see it as something like it is happening and we're just trying to embrace it as much as we can.

01:02:16.833 --> 01:02:18.715
Well, I love that and I love that for you guys.

01:02:18.715 --> 01:02:21.916
I'm so excited for this possum panels thing to go live.

01:02:21.956 --> 01:02:25.739
As you guys are listening to this conversation once again, it should already be live.

01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:30.532
It'll be all over the socials, of course, and we'll go over that here in just a moment, but also check the show notes.

01:02:30.532 --> 01:02:37.146
If you guys want to just an easy access to support this awesome Kickstarter, if we want this thing to become real now is the time to do it.

01:02:37.146 --> 01:02:40.510
And I think supporting things on Kickstarter has become sort of a new thing for me.

01:02:40.510 --> 01:02:43.429
I've that's I've been doing it a lot more recently than I used to.

01:02:43.429 --> 01:02:44.420
It's addictive.

01:02:44.420 --> 01:02:45.672
It's a rewarding feeling, man.

01:02:45.672 --> 01:02:48.523
It's it's really cool to support people that want to get things done.

01:02:48.523 --> 01:02:52.646
And, you know, sometimes the publishers don't believe in it or they can't for whatever reason.

01:02:52.646 --> 01:02:57.791
And Kickstarter is really valuable for that reason, that and Zoop and the, the other crowdfunding sites.

01:02:57.791 --> 01:03:00.353
So it's just really cool to see something like this exist.

01:03:00.353 --> 01:03:01.483
I want it to exist.

01:03:01.483 --> 01:03:05.768
And I think regardless of whether it funds, which let's be honest, this is going to fund.

01:03:05.768 --> 01:03:10.989
think there's no way in my eyes, I'm going to knock on wood here live on the show just in case not, but I think.

01:03:10.989 --> 01:03:14.269
just based on the names involved and the support that you guys are gonna have.

01:03:14.269 --> 01:03:16.679
It feels like a sure fire thing and I hope it is.

01:03:16.679 --> 01:03:19.389
Yeah, mean the table of contents is so stacked.

01:03:19.829 --> 01:03:36.974
The best thing about Kickstarter, we found we love to back Kickstarters and the best thing is like it's like giving a gift, a surprise gift to yourself in the future where we love to like as we approach our home like.

01:03:36.974 --> 01:03:47.824
doing like looking to see if there's like a flat package on our welcome mat is like when we see that like a little like, something, something's come in the mail.

01:03:47.824 --> 01:03:48.983
Like, is there a better feeling?

01:03:48.983 --> 01:03:49.713
I think not.

01:03:49.713 --> 01:03:52.653
I backed this thing a year ago.

01:03:52.853 --> 01:03:53.534
Exactly.

01:03:53.534 --> 01:03:59.173
I do the same thing with pre-ordering because I'm a big physical media collector when it comes to movies and obviously comics and everything.

01:03:59.173 --> 01:04:05.885
And I do the pre-ordering of movies sometimes and I'll be like, I will actually delete confirmed emails.

01:04:05.885 --> 01:04:08.686
I just wanted to show up one day and be like, holy shit, there it is.

01:04:08.686 --> 01:04:09.286
Like I have it.

01:04:09.286 --> 01:04:13.447
And then some, I'm sure at some point I'm going to lose something and that's going to be a bad, bad deal.

01:04:13.447 --> 01:04:21.387
But, but for now we, you know, it's fun that like I just show up and there's, you know, the 30th anniversary of a South by Southwest on my doorstep.

01:04:21.387 --> 01:04:22.110
I'm like, awesome.

01:04:22.110 --> 01:04:23.601
I can, I'm not South by Southwest Jesus.

01:04:23.601 --> 01:04:25.942
That's the film festival talking about North by Northwest.

01:04:25.942 --> 01:04:26.532
Everybody.

01:04:26.532 --> 01:04:27.152
are good.

01:04:27.152 --> 01:04:28.092
Yeah.

01:04:28.452 --> 01:04:30.373
But yeah, that's, that's sort of my approach to it.

01:04:30.373 --> 01:04:32.903
But I think we're sort of nearing the end here, everybody.

01:04:32.903 --> 01:04:40.403
And I think, If we haven't articulated how important and how awesome this whole deal is, just reward the, I never reward rewind.

01:04:40.403 --> 01:04:41.173
can't talk to everybody.

01:04:41.173 --> 01:04:47.134
I am still, I guess I should just say here at the end of this conversation, this is the third interview that I've done.

01:04:47.474 --> 01:04:53.353
Everybody, the oblivion bar has obviously been on a hiatus for the last three, four months.

01:04:53.353 --> 01:04:58.423
I would say four months technically, because we interviewed Brian K Vaughan a month before we put out that conversation.

01:04:58.423 --> 01:05:00.873
So it's really, it's been about four months as we've been interviewing.

01:05:00.873 --> 01:05:04.139
So I got to get back in and everybody, but I'm glad that it could be.

01:05:04.139 --> 01:05:09.405
you two that could help me sort of fine tune this whole process again.

01:05:09.405 --> 01:05:16.300
So before I let you go, firstly, can we get a tease of some folks you're gonna be talking to at New York if you have that yet?

01:05:16.641 --> 01:05:23.496
Yeah, like, you know, we're always nervous when we discuss interviews that actually- are not in the can.

01:05:23.496 --> 01:05:24.878
Yeah, so they might not happen.

01:05:24.878 --> 01:05:27.170
They get a little superstitious about it.

01:05:27.170 --> 01:05:32.384
But, we should have a conversation out right now with Michael Allred.

01:05:32.849 --> 01:05:34.811
The artist extraordinaire.

01:05:34.811 --> 01:05:40.106
We should have a conversation coming out real soon with Cliff Chang talking about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

01:05:40.106 --> 01:05:42.467
Jason Aaron is coming back.

01:05:42.467 --> 01:05:48.501
Jason Aaron and then some people that will be involved with announcements that are happening at New York Comic Con.

01:05:48.681 --> 01:05:49.632
okay.

01:05:49.632 --> 01:05:52.204
Yeah, yeah, we're pretty excited about that.

01:05:52.204 --> 01:05:54.005
You guys teased something.

01:05:54.005 --> 01:05:55.351
It was like the biggest.

01:05:55.351 --> 01:05:56.932
creator you were going to ever have on the show?

01:05:56.932 --> 01:05:57.653
it Claremont?

01:05:57.653 --> 01:05:58.054
that the one?

01:05:58.054 --> 01:05:59.284
No, no, no.

01:05:59.284 --> 01:06:02.878
The thing we were teasing, we never actually teased the biggest creator.

01:06:02.878 --> 01:06:04.909
What we were teasing was the Harvey Awards.

01:06:04.909 --> 01:06:09.534
So when you texted me like, who's the big creator you're coming on?

01:06:09.782 --> 01:06:13.137
I mean, I can't remember how you phrased it.

01:06:13.137 --> 01:06:14.469
You phrased it something like that.

01:06:14.469 --> 01:06:14.978
Something like that.

01:06:14.978 --> 01:06:15.480
Anyway.

01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:21.655
And I was like, Brian Lee O'Malley, because at the time we were hopefully going to have a conversation with Brian Lee O'Malley.

01:06:21.655 --> 01:06:22.054
But guess what?

01:06:22.054 --> 01:06:23.146
It didn't happen.

01:06:28.143 --> 01:06:32.414
I asked and you put it in the universe and made it real and it just floated away.

01:06:32.414 --> 01:06:35.755
universe has been so freaking generous with us.

01:06:35.755 --> 01:06:36.905
if we're like, what?

01:06:36.905 --> 01:06:38.326
No Brian Lee O'Malley.

01:06:38.326 --> 01:06:41.246
can seriously go fuck ourselves.

01:06:41.246 --> 01:06:47.688
desperately want to hear your opinion of our next episode, which for your listeners will be out already.

01:06:47.688 --> 01:06:50.429
Our conversation with Chris Claremont.

01:06:50.829 --> 01:06:52.489
We've had that chat.

01:06:52.842 --> 01:06:58.344
The title of the episode is 17 minutes and 43 seconds with Chris Claremont.

01:06:58.344 --> 01:06:59.936
That's all the time we had.

01:06:59.936 --> 01:07:01.266
That's all you get.

01:07:01.266 --> 01:07:03.637
Very high stakes interview situation.

01:07:03.637 --> 01:07:05.289
Not fun to do.

01:07:05.289 --> 01:07:07.739
That's like one question, right?

01:07:07.739 --> 01:07:12.322
And, you know, it's like, you know, he was very generous to do the conversation.

01:07:12.322 --> 01:07:15.125
It was a busy day for him.

01:07:15.125 --> 01:07:18.016
It was a favor for the Harvey Awards.

01:07:18.016 --> 01:07:21.677
He was coming back from the uncanny experience.

01:07:21.934 --> 01:07:23.905
Our friends put that con on.

01:07:23.905 --> 01:07:25.085
It's an amazing con.

01:07:25.085 --> 01:07:29.516
We haven't experienced it yet, but it looks crazy every time I look at their Instagram account.

01:07:29.516 --> 01:07:38.280
And then he was going to London and he had a deadline with Marvel and he's like, look, I've got 10 to 15 minutes, maybe with you two.

01:07:38.561 --> 01:07:39.731
And then he was late.

01:07:39.731 --> 01:07:42.643
Which happens, which happens.

01:07:42.643 --> 01:07:43.603
Not a big deal.

01:07:43.603 --> 01:07:44.804
Not a big deal.

01:07:44.804 --> 01:07:48.755
But in being late, it like discombobulated us.

01:07:48.755 --> 01:07:49.719
And so.

01:07:49.719 --> 01:07:52.271
We like, he was like, here I am, sorry I'm late.

01:07:52.271 --> 01:07:53.351
I'm in the Zoom room.

01:07:53.351 --> 01:07:54.871
You jump into the Zoom room.

01:07:54.871 --> 01:07:57.161
We were actively recording something else.

01:07:57.161 --> 01:07:58.943
We had to stop what we were doing.

01:07:58.943 --> 01:08:01.324
And then it's like, go, go, go, go, go, go.

01:08:01.324 --> 01:08:05.875
And the interview that we got is so fascinating.

01:08:05.875 --> 01:08:12.639
I freaking love this conversation with Chris Claremont, but it is absolutely not the conversation we thought we were going to have.

01:08:12.639 --> 01:08:15.800
It's kind of like our Todd McFarlane interview.

01:08:15.800 --> 01:08:18.301
Where he was talking about nothing but atheism.

01:08:18.305 --> 01:08:18.796
Yeah.

01:08:18.796 --> 01:08:22.587
You just described every interaction with Chris Claremont I've ever had.

01:08:22.587 --> 01:08:24.889
And I've met him 20 times.

01:08:24.889 --> 01:08:26.099
And we were prepared for that.

01:08:26.099 --> 01:08:26.889
every time.

01:08:26.889 --> 01:08:28.050
Yeah.

01:08:28.050 --> 01:08:29.239
We thought we were prepared for that.

01:08:29.239 --> 01:08:37.332
And again, we're super grateful that he had this conversation and he is actually pretty darn vulnerable in this conversation and very honest.

01:08:37.332 --> 01:08:38.394
you know, it's cool.

01:08:38.394 --> 01:08:41.293
And I'm just really curious to hear what you think of it.

01:08:41.354 --> 01:08:42.524
Well, you know, I'm to be listening.

01:08:42.524 --> 01:08:43.775
I can't wait to hear it.

01:08:43.775 --> 01:08:47.854
If I, before we head out, everybody, want to, if I may.

01:08:47.854 --> 01:08:51.423
share this brief memory I have with Chris Claremont.

01:08:51.423 --> 01:08:53.934
Claremont was the second big creator I ever met.

01:08:53.934 --> 01:08:54.724
The first was Stanley.

01:08:54.724 --> 01:08:56.944
I met him in 2016 at Cincinnati.

01:08:56.944 --> 01:09:02.703
And then a couple of months later, I met Claremont at Kansas City Planet Comic Con, obviously in Kansas City.

01:09:02.703 --> 01:09:12.923
And when I met him in front of me was, know, Claremont's line is always packed to the brim with old school X-Men fans, folks that have been reading his books for a long time.

01:09:12.923 --> 01:09:16.453
He's very important to not only X-Men, but just comics in general.

01:09:16.453 --> 01:09:18.420
And He told this story.

01:09:18.420 --> 01:09:25.310
He captivated these people at our line about this story about how Gambit was going to be the secret clone of Wolverine.

01:09:25.310 --> 01:09:28.590
it was this, it comes up in this conversation.

01:09:28.590 --> 01:09:29.029
It does.

01:09:29.029 --> 01:09:30.060
It's referenced.

01:09:30.060 --> 01:09:31.329
He references it.

01:09:31.329 --> 01:09:31.630
Okay.

01:09:31.630 --> 01:09:31.989
Yeah.

01:09:31.989 --> 01:09:32.279
All right.

01:09:32.279 --> 01:09:35.810
So anyway, he caps it like, and you know, Claremont it's 30 minutes.

01:09:35.810 --> 01:09:39.399
If you're, either get 30 seconds or 30 minutes with him.

01:09:39.399 --> 01:09:40.560
It's one of those two.

01:09:40.560 --> 01:09:42.090
It's neither it's nowhere in between.

01:09:42.090 --> 01:09:51.341
I'm listening to this, this, you know, description of the story that never ended up happening because Claremont's quick to sort of blame Marvel for all these interesting ideas that he wasn't able to do.

01:09:51.341 --> 01:09:53.854
And my friend who I worked at the comic shop with in St.

01:09:53.854 --> 01:09:56.206
Louis, he's a huge X-Men fan.

01:09:56.206 --> 01:09:58.408
I go, hey, when you meet Claremont, he's super nervous.

01:09:58.408 --> 01:10:01.159
He's not even sure he wants to meet Claremont.

01:10:01.159 --> 01:10:02.671
He's just that nervous.

01:10:02.671 --> 01:10:05.092
But I go, hey, I'll be there with you.

01:10:05.092 --> 01:10:06.694
But here's the cool thing.

01:10:06.835 --> 01:10:09.117
Ask him about the secret origin of Gambit.

01:10:09.117 --> 01:10:10.067
You're going to love this.

01:10:10.067 --> 01:10:11.068
I didn't tease him.

01:10:11.068 --> 01:10:11.838
I didn't say anything.

01:10:11.838 --> 01:10:14.541
And we get up there, and Claremont just sat down.

01:10:14.541 --> 01:10:15.713
He looks a little disheveled.

01:10:15.713 --> 01:10:19.855
But there's no one in his line, weirdly enough, which is very rare for a Claremont line at a con.

01:10:19.855 --> 01:10:21.225
And I go, okay, this is going be awesome.

01:10:21.225 --> 01:10:21.987
There's nobody around.

01:10:21.987 --> 01:10:22.867
can, I can't wait.

01:10:22.867 --> 01:10:27.538
I'm like, I'm ready to revel in this moment with my friend who is so into X-Men, it's insane.

01:10:27.738 --> 01:10:29.989
And he gets up there goes, hey, he's signing this book.

01:10:29.989 --> 01:10:31.801
He's signing Wolverine number one, the Frank Miller cover.

01:10:31.801 --> 01:10:35.112
And he goes, hey, what's the secret origin of Gambit?

01:10:35.112 --> 01:10:37.842
heard this legend of this secret, this secret origin.

01:10:37.842 --> 01:10:42.425
And Claremont looks up from signing, looks him dead in the eye and goes, what?

01:10:43.305 --> 01:10:44.622
What are you talking about?

01:10:44.622 --> 01:10:46.891
What is, what do you, I don't know what you're talking about.

01:10:46.891 --> 01:10:50.051
What he looks at his son, cause the son is like his handler most of the time.

01:10:50.051 --> 01:10:51.631
Cause what have I told this story?

01:10:51.631 --> 01:10:55.721
And his son's like, I don't know, dude, I hear you tell 19 million stories a day.

01:10:55.721 --> 01:11:02.801
But me who heard this story, the 30 minute secret origin, I'm like, I can't call Claremont out on his shit in this moment.

01:11:02.801 --> 01:11:05.822
I got to just be like, I don't know either.

01:11:05.902 --> 01:11:07.421
I heard this story.

01:11:07.421 --> 01:11:08.502
I heard it.

01:11:08.502 --> 01:11:11.261
Anyway, that's my, that's my fun Claremont story.

01:11:11.438 --> 01:11:17.341
leave you through your friend and Chris Claremont under the same bus.

01:11:17.341 --> 01:11:18.523
I don't know to do.

01:11:18.523 --> 01:11:27.869
I don't know what this I didn't know what to do because I wanted to tell him things where it's just like, let's just unzip my skin and I'm just going to walk out as a skeleton for I am dead.

01:11:27.869 --> 01:11:29.264
All right.

01:11:29.264 --> 01:11:32.172
What anybody anyway, thank you guys so much for coming on again.

01:11:32.172 --> 01:11:33.172
Give a quick pitch.

01:11:33.172 --> 01:11:34.963
Whatever you guys want to highlight for the listener.

01:11:34.963 --> 01:11:42.632
Again, most folks that are listening, I'm sure already listened to CBCC, but for whatever reason, if they're not Here's your chance to sort of bring them on in.

01:11:42.632 --> 01:11:47.024
You know, right now we're talking to some of the best people making comics today.

01:11:47.024 --> 01:11:49.423
Obviously, we're talking to Chris Claremont.

01:11:49.423 --> 01:11:51.744
We just also spoke with Nick Dragata.

01:11:51.744 --> 01:11:55.865
We went full spoilers about Absolute Batman number one.

01:11:55.865 --> 01:12:06.488
And we also have a conversation with Tiffany Babb, the comics journalist who is doing great work bringing comics journalism back to a physical form with the comics courier.

01:12:06.488 --> 01:12:08.850
That is also up now on Kickstarter.

01:12:08.850 --> 01:12:10.318
Please go seek that out.

01:12:10.318 --> 01:12:15.717
Lisa and I have a short, a very short 500 word review that you can read in that as well.

01:12:15.717 --> 01:12:17.738
But it's got all these incredible people contributing.

01:12:17.738 --> 01:12:18.347
Douglas Wolk.

01:12:18.347 --> 01:12:19.537
Douglas Wolk.

01:12:19.557 --> 01:12:20.997
Cool people.

01:12:20.997 --> 01:12:22.537
Tiffany Bann.

01:12:22.978 --> 01:12:24.578
Well, thank you both so much.

01:12:24.578 --> 01:12:26.287
Again, I'm going to buddy up one more time.

01:12:26.287 --> 01:12:28.347
I cherish the friendship we all have.

01:12:28.347 --> 01:12:29.177
I am so excited.

01:12:29.177 --> 01:12:32.167
You're always two of the people I'm most excited to see at these conventions.

01:12:32.167 --> 01:12:34.377
I'm very excited to hang out with you guys in New York.

01:12:34.377 --> 01:12:39.105
Hopefully we can get together for an evening or even if it's just a quick conversation on the con floor.

01:12:39.105 --> 01:12:42.570
That's always, it's always something I look forward to very much.

01:12:42.570 --> 01:12:43.533
Us too.

01:12:43.533 --> 01:12:43.783
Us too.

01:12:43.783 --> 01:12:45.555
We're going to make, we're going to make time.

01:12:45.555 --> 01:12:45.945
All right.

01:12:45.945 --> 01:12:46.367
Good deal.

01:12:46.367 --> 01:12:47.418
Well, thank you both so much.

01:12:47.418 --> 01:12:53.186
And I guess hopefully everybody click off of this conversation and go over to whatever CBCC is currently doing this week.

01:12:53.186 --> 01:12:55.670
Thank you both so much and we'll talk to you soon.