NYCC ‘24 INTERVIEW-A-THON: Griffin Sheridan & Ethan Parker

WEBVTT

00:00:00.226 --> 00:00:01.967
Hey, this is Griffin Sheridan.

00:00:01.967 --> 00:00:02.596
And Ethan S.

00:00:02.596 --> 00:00:03.088
Parker.

00:00:03.088 --> 00:00:04.067
And Bob Quinn.

00:00:04.067 --> 00:00:09.932
And we are the creative team behind the Image Comics epic fantasy horror, Kill Your Darlings.

00:00:09.932 --> 00:00:13.153
And you are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

00:00:16.929 --> 00:00:24.396
Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles.

00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:45.893
Hello everyone and welcome to episode 169 of the Oblivion Bar podcast.

00:00:45.893 --> 00:00:54.357
I am your Francine-wielding traumatized kid Chris Hacker and joining me is my one-eyed Australian Ella pig, my co-host and BFF Aaron Knowles.

00:00:54.357 --> 00:00:57.679
Blimey, we need the princess to save us all.

00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:08.418
Welcome everybody to day four of our interview-a-thon or GuessFest, where we are joined by the two co-writers of the Eiser nominated fantasy series, Kill Your Darlings.

00:01:08.418 --> 00:01:11.239
We were joined by Griffin Sheridan and Ethan S Parker Aaron.

00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:12.239
Hell yeah.

00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:13.218
What are those guys?

00:01:13.218 --> 00:01:14.153
Those guys are awesome.

00:01:14.153 --> 00:01:17.070
What a conversation we had with these two gentlemen here.

00:01:17.070 --> 00:01:23.623
most people will know by now that we actually talked to these guys right before the first issue back in September of last year.

00:01:23.623 --> 00:01:26.362
And they were joined by Bob Quinn, the artist on the series.

00:01:26.362 --> 00:01:27.763
This is a great book.

00:01:27.763 --> 00:01:28.243
Everybody.

00:01:28.243 --> 00:01:38.335
I know I've already said this previously, both on social media and here on the show, but, I say it here in this conversation once again, Kill Your Darlings issue one was my favorite single issue of 2023.

00:01:38.335 --> 00:01:40.608
It was close.

00:01:40.608 --> 00:01:47.183
There were a couple of really good single issues out last year, but I will say the first issue of Kill Your Darlings is one of those books that I feel like I could just hand anybody.

00:01:47.183 --> 00:01:56.319
Whether you're a long time comic fan or you just started reading, just, whether you are in for the story or you're in for the art by Bob, it's just, great.

00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:56.780
It's so good.

00:01:56.780 --> 00:01:58.010
It's phenomenal.

00:01:58.010 --> 00:02:08.390
The coloring, the story, it's all just, it is a, it is a story that you can start off with in the con when you intro into comics or it's one for readers that have been reading comics for years.

00:02:08.390 --> 00:02:10.241
It's one of those ones that just anybody can pick up.

00:02:10.241 --> 00:02:14.675
And Chris, I think this is one that I can say much like you and several books that you have.

00:02:14.675 --> 00:02:19.539
This is one that I can recommend to a ton of people and they'll totally dig it from the first page.

00:02:19.539 --> 00:02:19.810
Yeah.

00:02:19.810 --> 00:02:28.707
And I feel like it should be said also that, and I said this in our previous episode, I'm going to say it again, both Aaron and I are friends with Griffin and Ethan.

00:02:28.707 --> 00:02:34.990
we were friends before they started writing comics, but They have just fully evolved into their writing form now.

00:02:34.990 --> 00:02:40.180
And we say here in the conversation, this is an Iser nominated series now, which is still so crazy to think about.

00:02:40.180 --> 00:02:43.650
I'm so again, I'm just very proud of these two for being able to accomplish that.

00:02:43.650 --> 00:02:47.110
Again, it is so cool to have them on today because we go full spoilers.

00:02:47.110 --> 00:02:47.509
Everybody.

00:02:47.509 --> 00:02:55.949
If you have read killer darlings, all eight issues of the series, this will be a fun conversation to listen to because we peel back a lot of layers like in Shrek, right?

00:02:55.949 --> 00:03:01.069
Aaron layers, like ogres, parfaits, onions.

00:03:01.069 --> 00:03:02.129
Yeah, they all have layers.

00:03:02.129 --> 00:03:03.430
They all have layers.

00:03:03.969 --> 00:03:06.490
But we'll have that conversation here in just a moment.

00:03:06.490 --> 00:03:10.310
Everybody, once again, we are at day four of Interviewathon or...

00:03:10.310 --> 00:03:17.049
GuessFest! So Aaron and I are probably, if we haven't already lost our minds at New York Comic Con, we are on our way.

00:03:17.049 --> 00:03:19.439
But we're obviously talking to you from the past.

00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:23.930
So hopefully everybody enjoys this conversation with both Ethan and Griffin.

00:03:23.930 --> 00:03:25.247
Before we get there though...

00:03:25.247 --> 00:03:28.538
Aaron, will you please tell the people how they can support the Oblivion Bar podcast?

00:03:28.538 --> 00:03:29.769
Absolutely.

00:03:29.769 --> 00:03:34.139
If you want to support the Oblivion Bar podcast, consider checking out our Patreon for your support.

00:03:34.139 --> 00:03:38.822
can gain access to a bonus episode each week called The Grid.

00:03:39.801 --> 00:03:48.044
A behind the scenes look at how we prepare each episode with episode transcripts and Patreon polls and a whole bunch of exclusive other goodies.

00:03:48.044 --> 00:03:50.284
You get a ton of stuff for being a Patreon member.

00:03:50.284 --> 00:03:56.920
Give it a shot with a seven day free trial at patreon.com forward slash oblivion bar pod or check out the link in our show notes.

00:03:56.920 --> 00:03:57.442
Check it out.

00:03:57.442 --> 00:03:58.427
It's in the show notes right now.

00:03:58.427 --> 00:04:03.251
We're going to stop talking everybody here so you can hear us talk over there with Griffin and Ethan.

00:04:03.251 --> 00:04:08.098
So let's go and get in this conversation with Griffin Sheridan and Ethan S Parker.

00:04:10.126 --> 00:04:13.264
And now, this week's special guest.

00:04:16.055 --> 00:04:23.817
Joining us today are the Eisner nominated co-writers of the Image Comics series, Kill Your Darlings with artist Bob Quinn and letterer John J Hill.

00:04:23.817 --> 00:04:30.990
It is my pleasure to welcome back both Griffin Sheridan and Ethan S Parker onto the Oblivion Bar podcast.

00:04:30.990 --> 00:04:32.310
Woo, yeah.

00:04:32.310 --> 00:04:33.021
Thank you.

00:04:33.021 --> 00:04:33.401
man.

00:04:33.401 --> 00:04:35.060
Lovely to be here again.

00:04:35.060 --> 00:04:37.072
Thank you, Chris, Aaron.

00:04:37.072 --> 00:04:38.992
We're stoked to be here, fellas.

00:04:38.992 --> 00:04:41.153
Yes, thank you both so much for being here.

00:04:41.153 --> 00:04:48.315
We were just talking about this right before we started recording that we had you guys both on Previously, I think it was September of last year.

00:04:48.315 --> 00:04:51.418
Aaron was not present for this one, but damn it.

00:04:51.418 --> 00:04:54.509
He had to be here for this one because he was excited to talk about all things.

00:04:54.509 --> 00:04:55.160
Kill your darlings.

00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:58.831
And there has been so much that has happened since.

00:04:58.831 --> 00:05:02.711
mean, it was it's been just over a year since that time.

00:05:02.892 --> 00:05:03.694
Yeah.

00:05:03.694 --> 00:05:05.935
And I have read it thrice since then.

00:05:05.935 --> 00:05:07.095
my goodness.

00:05:07.334 --> 00:05:08.235
Thank you.

00:05:08.235 --> 00:05:09.175
Yes.

00:05:09.175 --> 00:05:10.216
A lot has happened.

00:05:10.216 --> 00:05:11.596
The rest of the book came out.

00:05:11.596 --> 00:05:12.387
That was pretty good.

00:05:12.387 --> 00:05:13.937
Yeah.

00:05:14.526 --> 00:05:23.209
We lost our minds writing issue eight, every issue, but issue eight, especially, of trade came out very good.

00:05:23.209 --> 00:05:27.490
We're in a space now that I think it never felt like we would actually reach.

00:05:27.490 --> 00:05:34.862
Like it felt like the book would never be fully out and that the work on it would be done and that people would have opinions of it like that.

00:05:34.862 --> 00:05:37.502
And we're in purely hypothetical space.

00:05:37.742 --> 00:05:41.322
This is all not supposed to happen, but we're here.

00:05:41.461 --> 00:05:46.781
Would you describe it as like a layer of hell where you're just like, you know, perpetually waiting for the next issue to come out?

00:05:46.781 --> 00:05:47.581
Yeah, for sure.

00:05:47.581 --> 00:05:48.502
A little bit.

00:05:48.502 --> 00:05:49.081
Yeah.

00:05:49.081 --> 00:05:49.742
Yeah.

00:05:49.742 --> 00:05:56.641
Especially when like it became very real with like we had a printing error on issue three.

00:05:56.641 --> 00:06:01.997
And so it was kind of like one error was like the realization of like Who knows?

00:06:01.997 --> 00:06:02.927
Who fucking knows?

00:06:02.927 --> 00:06:08.278
Maybe we'll hit another goddamn pandemic and it'll fucking take a million years for the rest of the book to come out.

00:06:08.278 --> 00:06:09.497
Who knows?

00:06:09.497 --> 00:06:13.257
Ethan, Griffith was just saying a moment ago that you guys were losing your mind during issue eight.

00:06:13.257 --> 00:06:14.838
Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

00:06:14.838 --> 00:06:16.278
What was going on there?

00:06:16.338 --> 00:06:26.278
dude, I mean, we knew that we wanted eight to be like a huge finale and we wanted it to be a million pages, like as long as it could possibly be.

00:06:26.877 --> 00:06:29.459
with image, you're able to do that sort of thing.

00:06:29.459 --> 00:06:31.651
so like it really was an option.

00:06:31.651 --> 00:06:38.185
But at the same time, it was like, what can we what can we ask of our friend, Bob Quinn?

00:06:38.427 --> 00:06:46.351
And and and so like it went through such a long process of like, God, OK, we wrote 100 page version of it.

00:06:46.351 --> 00:06:47.572
We got to hack it down.

00:06:47.572 --> 00:06:53.107
We got to like continue to see what can expand and contracts to fill the space as well as possible.

00:06:53.107 --> 00:06:54.528
And then we ended up like.

00:06:54.697 --> 00:06:58.079
You know, we're going to New York Comic Con as we do each year.

00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:01.819
I'm and like I'm mainlining coffee and writing it on the plane there.

00:07:01.819 --> 00:07:06.161
And then we stay up all night the first night of New York in the hotel writing it together.

00:07:06.161 --> 00:07:10.762
And it's like it's just like we're just red eyed like maniacs trying to get that thing done.

00:07:10.762 --> 00:07:12.853
And now it's you know, it's here and it's a behemoth.

00:07:12.853 --> 00:07:14.223
And I'm really happy with it.

00:07:14.223 --> 00:07:16.237
But it did almost kill us for sure.

00:07:16.237 --> 00:07:23.565
Yeah, that was a super special experience finishing the like the first like really solid version of it together.

00:07:23.709 --> 00:07:25.531
in the hotel in New York.

00:07:25.992 --> 00:07:36.802
For anyone listening that doesn't know, Ethan and I live on opposite ends of the country and have for our entire friendship and now working partnership.

00:07:37.101 --> 00:07:46.870
So all of Kill Your Darlings, or I should say most of it was written just completely remotely with us both sort of going off and doing things separately.

00:07:47.552 --> 00:07:48.713
And then...

00:07:49.874 --> 00:07:53.694
Issue A just so happened to be getting finished as we were going to New York.

00:07:53.694 --> 00:07:56.076
So then we were in the hotel room, finished it up.

00:07:56.076 --> 00:07:57.255
Or so we thought.

00:07:57.255 --> 00:07:59.447
We were like, man, we finished the whole thing together.

00:07:59.447 --> 00:08:00.476
That's so cool.

00:08:00.476 --> 00:08:07.059
And then, of course, like two weeks later, we cracked it open again and we were just right back on Zoom being like, all right.

00:08:07.059 --> 00:08:10.199
And also there was no time to savor that moment of working together.

00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:12.459
It was just like, fuck, go, go, go, go.

00:08:12.620 --> 00:08:13.160
It was.

00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:16.550
It was because it was also after a full day of tabling.

00:08:16.550 --> 00:08:19.661
so then we were back in the hotel room.

00:08:19.661 --> 00:08:26.002
And it got to the point where we just have to cut stuff and both of us have things that we like and Ethan's like, I think we gotta cut this.

00:08:26.002 --> 00:08:27.901
I'm just like, fucking fine.

00:08:28.021 --> 00:08:33.611
And then I'm coming over to him, I'm like, this part just like, this is not working, we have to get rid of this.

00:08:33.611 --> 00:08:35.302
And Ethan's like, fuck fine.

00:08:35.302 --> 00:08:40.831
And then I finished my shit, we haven't had anything to eat and I'm just like, dude, I gotta go to Taco Bell.

00:08:40.831 --> 00:08:43.412
And Ethan was like, I'm not fucking moving until I finish this thing.

00:08:43.412 --> 00:08:45.822
I'm like, dude, I'm going then.

00:08:45.822 --> 00:08:47.115
I'm fucking going.

00:08:47.115 --> 00:08:50.470
Truly showing the difference in approach there, like right off the jump.

00:08:50.470 --> 00:08:57.976
you guys, like, you, just like put your head down and bulldoze through the wall and griffin's like, I need to step away or I'm going to tear this computer in half.

00:08:57.976 --> 00:09:00.659
I'm getting major fear and loathing in Las Vegas.

00:09:00.659 --> 00:09:02.772
yeah, for sure.

00:09:02.772 --> 00:09:03.592
That's accurate.

00:09:03.592 --> 00:09:03.982
Yeah.

00:09:03.982 --> 00:09:05.605
Let's just talk about country.

00:09:05.605 --> 00:09:11.053
We're going to get into sort of like how the relationship changed as you guys went through this series.

00:09:11.053 --> 00:09:14.104
But I want to quickly let's just kind of go back to the very, very beginning.

00:09:14.104 --> 00:09:23.734
And again, as the last time we talked to you guys was in September of 23, we had Bob here on in that conversation and it just so happened to come out the week before the release of issue one.

00:09:23.734 --> 00:09:26.994
And I had the chance to read the first two issues before that conversation.

00:09:26.994 --> 00:09:31.903
And but since then, we have concluded that eight issue series of Rose's Journey.

00:09:31.903 --> 00:09:34.354
And as we said just a moment ago, the trade is out.

00:09:34.354 --> 00:09:35.433
It's physically here.

00:09:35.433 --> 00:09:37.514
Everyone, I'm holding it in my hands.

00:09:37.533 --> 00:09:39.437
So Ethan, it's so pretty.

00:09:39.437 --> 00:09:40.379
You know what?

00:09:40.379 --> 00:09:42.530
I will say also you guys said it a moment ago.

00:09:42.530 --> 00:09:47.787
You sort of were joking a little bit, but it does sort of stand out on the shelf because it's thicker, right?

00:09:47.787 --> 00:09:49.168
It's just a thicker book.

00:09:49.168 --> 00:09:50.309
Yeah.

00:09:50.309 --> 00:09:50.769
John J.

00:09:50.769 --> 00:09:53.062
Hill design really helps it to pop.

00:09:53.062 --> 00:09:53.822
Yeah.

00:09:53.822 --> 00:09:56.706
The spot gloss was the dream and it shines.

00:09:56.706 --> 00:09:57.738
Yeah, it's lovely.

00:09:57.738 --> 00:10:02.062
We got copies of that and we were both super happy about it.

00:10:02.062 --> 00:10:03.812
And it turned out so great.

00:10:03.812 --> 00:10:09.451
And then the German editions arrived on our porch and we like, what the fuck?

00:10:09.451 --> 00:10:10.922
They hard covers.

00:10:11.182 --> 00:10:11.741
no kidding.

00:10:11.741 --> 00:10:12.192
Awesome.

00:10:12.192 --> 00:10:13.011
They're amazing.

00:10:13.011 --> 00:10:16.542
There's one edition of it that has spot glitter.

00:10:16.701 --> 00:10:17.461
it's crazy.

00:10:17.461 --> 00:10:18.421
It's so cool.

00:10:18.421 --> 00:10:20.642
Isn't that the UK like all overseas?

00:10:20.642 --> 00:10:24.365
They always put out better traits like it seems like like I saw.

00:10:24.365 --> 00:10:27.355
I saw like a black and white do a power bomb and it was like Europe.

00:10:27.355 --> 00:10:28.346
was UK exclusive.

00:10:28.346 --> 00:10:30.885
Like why, why don't we get any of cool stuff over here?

00:10:30.885 --> 00:10:36.505
It's cause when you open the German version, it's just like yelling at you.

00:10:44.385 --> 00:10:46.265
Wallace is so much angry.

00:10:47.365 --> 00:10:48.025
Ethan.

00:10:48.025 --> 00:10:49.086
So I want to start with you here.

00:10:49.086 --> 00:10:53.176
Take us back to when you first heard back from Bob.

00:10:53.176 --> 00:10:58.908
putting out all these emails to different artists that you guys were planning to do this story and you heard back from Bob.

00:10:58.908 --> 00:11:10.354
What was sort of the reaction from you two when you first heard back from Bob firstly and what was sort of the secret thread between you and Griffin both as he accepted to join you guys on this journey?

00:11:10.354 --> 00:11:20.568
Yeah, I mean that whole thing is incredibly surreal because like at that point, there was so much uncertainty.

00:11:20.568 --> 00:11:22.919
Like we were like, I think we're making a comic book.

00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:25.660
Like we're really trying to make a comic book.

00:11:26.061 --> 00:11:39.106
But had never done it and like had never written something and then seen, you know, like an amazing artist like Bob, like bring it to life in a way that felt like really, you know, real, like, this book could be on the shelf.

00:11:39.106 --> 00:11:43.239
And so like, I think like we were so tentative about all of that.

00:11:43.239 --> 00:11:51.874
like speaking to Bob, was like, man, he's really cool, he seems really interested, but again, none of it felt real.

00:11:52.354 --> 00:11:57.394
But the concept of it was so insane, because we had been admirers of his work and everything.

00:11:57.394 --> 00:12:00.703
And when he was starting to be like, you know what I think?

00:12:00.703 --> 00:12:02.173
I don't think I might be into this.

00:12:02.173 --> 00:12:05.384
It was just like, Jesus Christ, this might be a real book.

00:12:05.384 --> 00:12:08.813
This might be something respectable.

00:12:10.751 --> 00:12:13.011
Yeah, it took a really long time.

00:12:13.011 --> 00:12:20.787
Like it took really like getting a lot of pages from him for it to start feeling more real because yeah, he's he is like a veteran.

00:12:20.787 --> 00:12:25.148
Like he's he's incredible and he made us look so good.

00:12:25.469 --> 00:12:31.731
And so like, yeah, it seems so insane that he would be down to commit to something like this with newbies like us.

00:12:31.731 --> 00:12:34.312
And the gratitude has never, ever stopped.

00:12:34.312 --> 00:12:36.073
And we're never letting him go.

00:12:36.881 --> 00:12:38.894
Yeah, well everybody was a newbie at some point.

00:12:38.894 --> 00:12:41.285
So, you know, you got to start that journey.

00:12:41.285 --> 00:12:42.567
Yeah, it's true.

00:12:42.567 --> 00:12:43.817
Griffin, how about from your angle?

00:12:43.817 --> 00:12:48.493
How did you sort of react internally as you guys learned that Bob was joining you guys on the series?

00:12:48.493 --> 00:12:58.782
Yeah, I don't know what else to other than it was extremely exciting and daunting because of what Ethan's talking about where it's like, we kind of this guy really knows what he's doing.

00:12:58.782 --> 00:13:01.144
He's used to working professionally.

00:13:01.144 --> 00:13:14.038
And so there's no room for us to Or we have to figure out what the rookie mistakes are and squash them as fast as we can and start delivering scripts, like really solid stuff for Bob to draw.

00:13:14.099 --> 00:13:14.789
That's a great point.

00:13:14.789 --> 00:13:16.820
there was another person.

00:13:17.380 --> 00:13:20.714
It existed in just Ethan and I's head for so long.

00:13:20.714 --> 00:13:24.866
And now there was another person that had a lot on the line too.

00:13:25.528 --> 00:13:37.509
And so we both felt a need, a desire to make sure that we were keeping, I shouldn't say keeping him happy, but like that Bob was having a good time working on it.

00:13:37.509 --> 00:13:39.378
Sort of anticipating needs and such.

00:13:39.378 --> 00:13:45.052
It was like with that, got the image green light prior to Bob and it was like, God, if it's going to be an image, we have to bring it.

00:13:45.052 --> 00:13:48.534
And then Bob getting on board was like, we cannot disappoint him.

00:13:48.534 --> 00:13:49.865
yeah, like, yeah.

00:13:49.865 --> 00:13:57.058
I think there was like kind of a feeling that maybe we would end up working with someone that was closer to the position that we were in.

00:13:57.058 --> 00:13:59.941
It just kind of seemed like that would probably be the case.

00:13:59.941 --> 00:14:02.292
But of course, you know, we're reaching out to anyone.

00:14:02.379 --> 00:14:10.275
and everyone and then yeah, like Ethan said, Bob has been in the industry for a few years.

00:14:10.275 --> 00:14:15.438
He's got a solid resume, work under his belt, years under his belt.

00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:19.793
And that's fucking crazy that he agreed to work with us.

00:14:19.793 --> 00:14:22.625
That's absolutely insane that he agreed to do this.

00:14:22.625 --> 00:14:24.706
I think he acknowledges that.

00:14:24.846 --> 00:14:30.090
And thank you to his wife, Melissa, as well for letting Bob take that leap with us.

00:14:30.539 --> 00:14:42.696
Now, I don't know if you guys are comfortable sharing this and please tell me I can edit this part out if you don't want to divulge, but going through the process of trying to find an artist, you guys said that you sort of just cold emailed a ton of different collaborators throughout that process.

00:14:42.696 --> 00:14:51.190
Is there anyone that you're comfortable sharing of, ones that you're sort of hoping that would have said yes, or, maybe like talks were happening and just didn't work out or can you divulge any of that at all?

00:14:51.190 --> 00:14:55.245
Or is that sort of left behind the email chain or the email block?

00:14:55.245 --> 00:15:00.066
I mean, an easy one to share because she's been killing it and I really hope we can work together.

00:15:00.066 --> 00:15:06.166
And sometimes Morgan Beam Morgan Beam was somebody that we were like, we were like, man, that style would be crazy for this.

00:15:06.166 --> 00:15:07.985
And we did get to speak with her a little bit.

00:15:07.985 --> 00:15:10.385
And she's super cool.

00:15:10.505 --> 00:15:15.686
it's been like there have been a couple like that where it's like we've seen them do a ton of cool stuff since.

00:15:15.686 --> 00:15:20.066
And it's like, man, I really hope we can circle back around someday.

00:15:20.066 --> 00:15:22.066
And yeah, she's definitely like at the top.

00:15:22.066 --> 00:15:23.225
Morgan's a good, good friend of the show.

00:15:23.225 --> 00:15:23.988
We've had her on.

00:15:23.988 --> 00:15:26.938
We had a client for for crashing.

00:15:26.938 --> 00:15:27.418
Right.

00:15:27.418 --> 00:15:28.918
She's great.

00:15:28.918 --> 00:15:36.260
And obviously that would have been, I mean, a completely different total version of the book.

00:15:36.260 --> 00:15:40.162
And it's it's like wild to think about that version.

00:15:40.842 --> 00:15:48.654
But I do think, yeah, Bob was sort of called to us in in a sense or we called the Bob or whatever it was.

00:15:48.654 --> 00:15:51.966
There was some connection because he we begged Bob.

00:15:53.077 --> 00:16:01.197
He was just like, yeah, had this real energy and passion about it, just without us even having a single conversation.

00:16:01.197 --> 00:16:04.066
And so that was that was really exciting.

00:16:04.066 --> 00:16:12.981
It's nice to know that somebody sees that that value in what you guys brought to the table and totally and has faith in you.

00:16:12.981 --> 00:16:14.163
So that's awesome.

00:16:14.163 --> 00:16:15.724
nobody had it to that point.

00:16:15.724 --> 00:16:19.006
Yeah, nobody nobody had had put faith in us yet.

00:16:19.006 --> 00:16:20.844
Well, somebody did image did right.

00:16:20.844 --> 00:16:21.825
Well, sure, sure.

00:16:21.825 --> 00:16:22.125
Yeah.

00:16:22.125 --> 00:16:28.791
But in terms of in terms of another artist sort of committing their time and energy to our, you know, our project.

00:16:28.791 --> 00:16:38.788
Yeah, it was that was an immense like boost like to drive away the imposter syndrome was like, all right, if he if he thinks this is something if he sees something here, then maybe there is.

00:16:39.269 --> 00:16:39.909
Absolutely.

00:16:39.909 --> 00:16:49.398
Well, in previous conversations, you both mentioned that you had to learn not only how to be proper storytellers as individuals, but also as a team.

00:16:49.471 --> 00:16:50.552
I'm gonna start with you, Griffin.

00:16:50.552 --> 00:16:55.966
In what ways did that working relationship evolve for you two as you continue to work throughout the series?

00:16:55.966 --> 00:17:03.893
Well, yeah, it was tricky because we were doing, we were working on ourselves and working on the duo, like you're saying.

00:17:03.893 --> 00:17:11.618
And so, I mean, an obvious one that comes to mind for me is just literally like we had to figure out how we wanted to co-write.

00:17:11.618 --> 00:17:19.595
Writing is a very, you know, sort of a theory or sort of magical practice in the way that it's just you and your tool.

00:17:22.108 --> 00:17:24.089
That's that's a theory.

00:17:24.089 --> 00:17:25.450
That's a clear.

00:17:27.289 --> 00:17:33.029
You got to figure out how to spend time with your tool alone and then spend your time together.

00:17:33.150 --> 00:17:34.230
Exactly.

00:17:34.230 --> 00:17:35.079
Isn't that what we all do?

00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:38.730
We all use our tool and like by ourselves and then we eventually share it with the world.

00:17:38.730 --> 00:17:39.000
Right.

00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:40.190
Yeah, exactly.

00:17:40.190 --> 00:17:40.410
Yes.

00:17:40.410 --> 00:17:42.460
Whoever will share it with us.

00:17:42.460 --> 00:17:43.779
We to co tool.

00:17:43.779 --> 00:17:47.339
You got to pull something out of the ether using your tool.

00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:48.530
Yeah, of course.

00:17:48.530 --> 00:17:50.571
Don't pull other tools out of either.

00:17:52.972 --> 00:17:57.496
So that alone is like hard to figure out.

00:17:57.976 --> 00:18:04.049
And then how can we make sure that our minds are thoroughly melding on the page?

00:18:04.049 --> 00:18:06.260
Because in conversation, it's easy.

00:18:06.260 --> 00:18:08.532
But on the page is a totally different story.

00:18:08.532 --> 00:18:09.343
Yeah.

00:18:09.343 --> 00:18:14.846
And at first it started as like I was writing a full draft and then Ethan would come in and just like.

00:18:14.958 --> 00:18:24.107
It would be like putting layers of paint just on top of each other, which sometimes would be complimentary and other times would be like, this is two totally different colors that we just put on top of each other.

00:18:24.107 --> 00:18:25.528
They don't go together very well.

00:18:25.528 --> 00:18:29.397
And then we would just have to keep calling each other and be like, where did that thing go that I liked?

00:18:29.397 --> 00:18:30.877
But I liked that.

00:18:30.877 --> 00:18:32.317
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:32.317 --> 00:18:33.698
We're bulldozing each other.

00:18:33.698 --> 00:18:34.157
Yeah.

00:18:34.157 --> 00:18:40.758
Well, OK, I'm going to make you guys brag about each other for a quick second, just without the other one saying or reacting to what the other one says.

00:18:40.758 --> 00:18:41.890
And Ethan, I'll start with you.

00:18:41.890 --> 00:18:45.592
What is one thing that you think Griffin does really well in your guys's partnership?

00:18:45.732 --> 00:18:49.915
I mean, we literally separate the work based on our strengths.

00:18:49.915 --> 00:18:53.198
The dude, the dude has a visual eye that I don't like.

00:18:53.198 --> 00:18:57.621
Like the dude can lay out a visual story in a way that I cannot.

00:18:57.621 --> 00:19:05.205
Griffin has a really, really good eye for that stuff of like striking visuals and pacing that that is like he's so good at that shit.

00:19:05.205 --> 00:19:06.707
Thank you, my love.

00:19:08.388 --> 00:19:10.589
I so yeah, it's just the opposite.

00:19:10.589 --> 00:19:12.320
It's the it's the rest of the script.

00:19:12.320 --> 00:19:14.131
That's exactly how we split it.

00:19:14.251 --> 00:19:30.678
And Ethan does all the dialogue and will come in and bring all this character work to it that just sometimes won't even like fully occur to me as I'm like doing all these visuals that I'm like setting up for him to to fill with all of his wonderful words.

00:19:31.778 --> 00:19:34.559
And every single time it's so great.

00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:40.531
I'm really spoiled because I get to kind of experience the whole thing a couple of times over with like reading it.

00:19:40.685 --> 00:19:47.006
with Ethan's stuff in there for the first time is like a whole different experience than me just reading over everything that I've written.

00:19:47.506 --> 00:19:51.715
And then of course, seeing it drawn later is like a whole nother time that I get to see it.

00:19:51.715 --> 00:19:56.566
So it's really I got the best of all worlds over here.

00:19:56.605 --> 00:20:06.365
We just finished a script last night and I got to read it and I don't know, maybe it's the first script for another little independent project.

00:20:06.365 --> 00:20:07.086
Ethan.

00:20:07.086 --> 00:20:13.125
Ethan and I are like bashing our heads into a wall against for regarding this script.

00:20:13.165 --> 00:20:15.425
But Ethan, I don't know, buddy.

00:20:15.425 --> 00:20:19.826
I think it's in a lot better shape than we were given the credit for.

00:20:19.826 --> 00:20:22.965
Again, because you came in and filled it with some really great words.

00:20:22.965 --> 00:20:24.766
I love reading it.

00:20:24.766 --> 00:20:25.385
This is great.

00:20:25.385 --> 00:20:26.826
We love each other.

00:20:26.826 --> 00:20:27.905
We love each other.

00:20:27.905 --> 00:20:33.905
So, yeah, we split the scripts down the middle where I'll come in and do all the visuals and lay the whole thing out.

00:20:33.905 --> 00:20:35.672
And then Ethan will.

00:20:35.672 --> 00:20:40.814
come in and say, this is what all the characters are saying here in this panel and this one and this one.

00:20:40.814 --> 00:20:44.684
And we'll advise either way and like we'll have discussions about each other's stuff.

00:20:44.684 --> 00:20:58.048
But generally, it's kind of like that was how we had to figure out how to work together was it was like we got to have different departments and then our departments can confer so that we're not just like trying to do the same thing differently all the time.

00:20:58.048 --> 00:20:58.949
Yeah.

00:20:59.009 --> 00:21:02.990
And it just came down to like an honest conversation of.

00:21:03.125 --> 00:21:06.128
What do I like doing the most?

00:21:06.128 --> 00:21:09.612
And what do I feel I do best?

00:21:10.354 --> 00:21:13.185
And vice versa, what do I like seeing from you?

00:21:13.185 --> 00:21:14.857
What do I think you do best?

00:21:15.939 --> 00:21:19.844
And then it just lined up perfectly where I was like, I just like, I don't know.

00:21:19.844 --> 00:21:23.626
Sometimes I don't have time to think about all the dialogue that's going into it.

00:21:23.626 --> 00:21:26.559
Or I have a habit of just getting in there.

00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:30.632
and writing a line that feels like a temp line and then maybe I don't change it.

00:21:30.632 --> 00:21:31.813
I don't know.

00:21:33.874 --> 00:21:35.674
Whereas that's my favorite shit.

00:21:35.674 --> 00:21:42.638
And so it's like been surprising like it's remained a really joyful experience to be able to hand it off that way.

00:21:42.719 --> 00:21:45.961
It has continued to be really, really good for us, I think.

00:21:46.820 --> 00:21:47.589
I think that's one thing.

00:21:47.589 --> 00:22:04.915
One thing that's super interesting is hearing different creative teams at different points in their relationship and you know, Cause you know, hearing you guys who, you not, you're not new, you're not a new creative team, but you're new in the creative aspect of what you've been creating.

00:22:04.915 --> 00:22:12.530
And then you talk to somebody like, you know, Brian K von and you know, Chris remind me, yeah, yeah, staples.

00:22:12.530 --> 00:22:21.526
And it's like, then the people in the middle, like everybody's like, and then also the UIs have this interesting aspect of, know, again, creating like your, your creator owned.

00:22:21.634 --> 00:22:23.259
like title and like, I don't know.

00:22:23.259 --> 00:22:33.354
I find it so, so interesting, but I got, I have to go into a question that I've had since I guess your last conversation with Chris when I was there.

00:22:33.354 --> 00:22:47.435
And it was talking about kill your darlings being this piece of literary kind of advice that means, and just as a refresher for the listeners or means moving, means removing parts of a story that are beloved, but don't contribute to the overall narrative.

00:22:47.435 --> 00:22:50.407
And this is kind of us getting into the story, so to speak.

00:22:50.534 --> 00:22:52.233
of Kill Your Darlings.

00:22:52.275 --> 00:22:54.234
And Ethan, I want to start with you.

00:22:54.655 --> 00:23:05.329
Can you walk us through, now that we know the story and how it plays out with Rose and Eleanor and how this term really applies to the story of Rose and the characters of Rosewood?

00:23:05.329 --> 00:23:12.071
Because I have ideas from the perspective of a reader, but I really want to hear it from you first, Ethan, and then we'll get with you, Griffin.

00:23:12.193 --> 00:23:18.178
Well, as as super cool artists, we try not to over explain, but let me.

00:23:20.621 --> 00:23:45.025
But but no, I will say like when when that title came up, when we figured out the title, we were like, holy shit, this is crazy because it applies to like a great many things in and around the book where it was like we were always saying it to each other and being told it in working on our first project or where I've like trying to figure out how to write and make something good and real for the first time.

00:23:45.025 --> 00:23:49.657
was like, was a lesson we had to learn really thoroughly in ourselves.

00:23:49.657 --> 00:23:54.131
And then within the book, it's also a book about creativity.

00:23:54.131 --> 00:23:58.134
Like it's about making things, about being a creative person.

00:23:58.134 --> 00:24:07.099
Rose is somebody who, her whole joy and identity comes from making things and like inhabiting the worlds she creates.

00:24:07.099 --> 00:24:09.546
But then also she has a...

00:24:09.546 --> 00:24:15.407
different points in her life had to learn to let go of those things or had them ripped out of her hands.

00:24:15.608 --> 00:24:20.391
And then if you want to talk about killing darlings, there are babies that die in this book.

00:24:20.391 --> 00:24:22.612
are babies that get eaten.

00:24:22.612 --> 00:24:28.773
And that is sort of like an element that has to do with like the young feeding the furnace of the old.

00:24:28.773 --> 00:25:07.743
So there's like, there are a lot of different sides to it where it applies, but like generally, this is a, you know, it's a book that pertains to creative people and people that make things and what makes somebody like that and what is it like living like that and how fucking like difficult can that be again because we're super cool artists and and and so yeah that's that's kind of like a roundabout sort of like it means a lot of stuff to us and it continued to sort of inform the process I think but the identity of the book really came together once we could put that label on it I think.

00:25:07.758 --> 00:25:19.028
You know, it's funny, you're joking there, Ethan, but so this is just sort of a weird anecdote, but we had Rom V on the show a couple of months ago and he refused to explain anything.

00:25:19.028 --> 00:25:21.688
He was like, listen, I wrote it.

00:25:21.688 --> 00:25:23.127
It's up to you to figure it out.

00:25:23.127 --> 00:25:26.887
I just, I that right there, again, I you were joking.

00:25:26.887 --> 00:25:28.077
David Lynch approach.

00:25:28.077 --> 00:25:28.637
Yeah, exactly.

00:25:28.637 --> 00:25:32.978
think he even like, he even may have even referenced Blue Velvet like three times during the conversation.

00:25:32.978 --> 00:25:37.430
But like, I sort of found a new appreciation for that since that conversation.

00:25:37.430 --> 00:25:39.111
and here you joke about it right now.

00:25:39.111 --> 00:25:48.295
It honestly, it's sort of, it's clicked something in my head when I approached talking to a creator here on the show is like, I no longer, and I know Aaron's very similar to this as well.

00:25:48.295 --> 00:25:52.115
We no longer want them to just pull out, explain this, this, this, and this.

00:25:52.115 --> 00:25:54.296
It's almost like a trapping of an interviewer.

00:25:54.517 --> 00:25:56.857
Cause it is so much left up to us as the reader.

00:25:56.857 --> 00:26:05.602
And I think you guys, especially you two and Bob do an incredible job in this story to leave a lot up to the reader and also to Rose as a creator in the story.

00:26:05.602 --> 00:26:10.025
Like it's almost, Her imaginary is the barrier of what she can create.

00:26:10.025 --> 00:26:10.545
Right.

00:26:10.545 --> 00:26:11.125
Right.

00:26:11.125 --> 00:26:12.057
Really appreciate that.

00:26:12.057 --> 00:26:34.065
And like that is that is definitely like a super intentional thing with this book that it was like we want to leave room for people their own sort of minds to fill in some of the space of the book because like it is something it's like a weird thing when you're trying to make something really personal where it's like you're holding out a platter of like here's some of my feelings and things I've dealt with and everything.

00:26:34.065 --> 00:26:41.079
And it's like I'm not going to tell you how to feel about my feelings or what I did here, but you tell me, what do you think?

00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:42.250
Like have a taste of this.

00:26:42.250 --> 00:26:42.749
What do you think?

00:26:42.749 --> 00:26:48.221
And it has been weird because some people have reacted in ways I have not expected at all.

00:26:48.221 --> 00:26:50.321
And that's like part of the magic of the process.

00:26:50.321 --> 00:26:53.603
I think it's like letting people come to you with that.

00:26:53.603 --> 00:26:53.923
Yeah.

00:26:53.923 --> 00:27:07.823
You know, it's funny as Aaron, I think you can agree here and you know, obviously I'm friends with both of you as well, but I think even when we sort of indulge in people and show our underbelly and expose ourselves in certain ways, I don't know if anyone really knows us, right?

00:27:07.823 --> 00:27:10.845
Like, like we never ever give everything up.

00:27:10.845 --> 00:27:16.228
At least I haven't ever, you know, maybe we can, maybe I can find a couch somewhere and lay down really quick while we're here online.

00:27:16.228 --> 00:27:29.255
But, you know, I think even when we have people in our lives who we trust implicitly and folks that we would share anything with, there is always a couple of things that we leave in the back burner that no one will ever know about us except for us.

00:27:29.255 --> 00:27:29.625
Right.

00:27:29.625 --> 00:27:29.964
Right.

00:27:29.964 --> 00:27:33.667
And I think that's sort of what you're explaining here a little bit with the story is that like, yeah, sure.

00:27:33.667 --> 00:27:39.092
You can explain what you what your intention was, but it's really up to the reader and forever.

00:27:39.092 --> 00:27:39.501
Right.

00:27:39.501 --> 00:27:42.173
This is a tangible, real thing that will last forever.

00:27:42.173 --> 00:27:48.476
And someone who's reading this in 100 years will pick up something different than how we're interpreting it now in twenty twenty four.

00:27:48.476 --> 00:27:48.875
Right.

00:27:48.875 --> 00:27:49.537
Yes.

00:27:49.537 --> 00:27:51.157
That's the shit.

00:27:51.157 --> 00:27:53.130
That is shit right there.

00:27:53.130 --> 00:27:53.519
100 percent.

00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:54.398
Yeah.

00:27:54.398 --> 00:28:01.301
I want to echo, though, like I am, you know, I completely understand the not wanting to be spoon fed.

00:28:01.682 --> 00:28:04.983
the story or the implications, the consequences.

00:28:05.544 --> 00:28:11.238
I can honestly say I've been in even films where it's like I've loved the story so much.

00:28:11.238 --> 00:28:15.710
then the last couple of minutes, I've been spoon fed the plot or what it all means.

00:28:15.710 --> 00:28:18.632
And it just ruins the entire experience.

00:28:18.632 --> 00:28:20.313
I do respect us.

00:28:20.313 --> 00:28:20.563
Yeah.

00:28:20.563 --> 00:28:22.044
It's like, you don't respect my intelligence.

00:28:22.044 --> 00:28:27.836
You don't respect my emotional intelligence, you know, to understand and pull out of something, pull something out of this story.

00:28:28.096 --> 00:28:41.905
And I think that that's something that Kill Your Darlings absolutely nails is because there is that ambiguity when it comes to both like Eleanor's motivations as well as Rose's motivations.

00:28:42.306 --> 00:28:44.246
Chris is actually going to touch on this.

00:28:44.246 --> 00:28:48.226
We both have talked about our questions, what we wanted to ask you well before this conversation.

00:28:48.226 --> 00:28:49.945
So I'm going to let it keep going.

00:28:49.945 --> 00:28:56.365
there are some things that popped up in this book that I, you know, I don't need explanation, but I need answers.

00:28:58.859 --> 00:28:59.410
Well, you know what?

00:28:59.410 --> 00:29:01.090
Let's go and pick that brain a little bit.

00:29:01.090 --> 00:29:04.701
let's go and get into we're going to jump forward a little bit to issue seven here.

00:29:04.701 --> 00:29:07.583
We finally get the face off between our two main characters, right?

00:29:07.583 --> 00:29:10.963
We get, know, that we've got the unfortunate predicament of each of them.

00:29:10.963 --> 00:29:13.933
We've got sort of holding on to hate with Eleanor.

00:29:13.933 --> 00:29:18.185
And then we have the sort of running from fear a little bit with Rose and Griffin.

00:29:18.185 --> 00:29:21.497
I'd love to hear you sort of interpret this however you want.

00:29:21.497 --> 00:29:26.443
Both of these characters have led tragic lives thus far in the story, and they've shown that.

00:29:26.443 --> 00:29:30.135
both of them will pretty much do whatever it takes to get them out from under that weight.

00:29:30.135 --> 00:29:35.817
Specifically, think Eleanor in this situation, but Rose in a much more specific way from her point of view in the story.

00:29:35.817 --> 00:29:43.820
How did you and the team approach these two struggles and the clash of those two struggles in that story, not only in that issue, but also in the overall story?

00:29:44.121 --> 00:29:44.741
Sure.

00:29:44.741 --> 00:29:45.961
Good question.

00:29:46.342 --> 00:29:47.863
It's a great question.

00:29:48.063 --> 00:30:25.612
We had talked about how we wanted Rose and Eleanor to feel like they were coming from a similar seed and then the choices they make along the way put them on totally different paths and the way that they can be linked without being the same even though there's so much about their lives that are somewhat similar the most important sort of aspects of their life being similar and that being just the complete and total betrayal of paternal figures and also their magic.

00:30:25.612 --> 00:30:26.482
They have magic.

00:30:26.482 --> 00:30:31.226
They're Say what?

00:30:32.807 --> 00:30:45.176
And so when it's time for them to come face to face for the first time and so much has happened to tie them together and yet they're sort of strangers to one another.

00:30:46.741 --> 00:30:54.424
We thought it was really interesting and felt also very similar to like estranged extended family members.

00:30:54.424 --> 00:31:10.193
And so Even though Rose and Eleanor are not related by blood, we certainly wanted there to be an element of them having a lineage, a similar quality to like a grandmother granddaughter relationship.

00:31:10.973 --> 00:31:15.645
And so it's kind of like them looking in a mirror a little bit.

00:31:15.645 --> 00:31:28.848
It's especially for Eleanor who has the hindsight of the past like 300 years to be like, here's you know, maybe a sort of different version, you know, of myself.

00:31:28.848 --> 00:31:32.490
And that's why she, you know, extends the offer to like do it together with Rose.

00:31:32.490 --> 00:31:37.893
Of course, that's kind of an empty, an empty sort of sentiment from her.

00:31:38.653 --> 00:31:42.856
But I think she is interested in the fact that like, here's another one of me.

00:31:42.856 --> 00:31:51.692
But I also think that her immediate sort of betrayal of even Rose is like, OK, so she doesn't care about much besides herself.

00:31:51.692 --> 00:31:52.288
Right.

00:31:52.288 --> 00:32:10.285
And she's sort of like it was really important to us that there's like a little moment in that issue where she's like she kind of reaches out to Rose and says like because she's sort of inadvertently cursed this person that is like a kindred spirit to her and has been through some of the same horrific stuff that she has.

00:32:10.285 --> 00:32:18.420
And so she's kind of like, man, if I, you know, if I had known that you were special like me, I would never have allowed.

00:32:18.420 --> 00:32:18.980
What does she say?

00:32:18.980 --> 00:32:20.570
Like your years of suffering or whatever.

00:32:20.570 --> 00:32:26.085
But then it's like Like immediately after that, she's just kind of like, OK, fuck you, I'm getting in your brain.

00:32:26.085 --> 00:32:30.215
it's like it's like like there is like a connection there.

00:32:30.215 --> 00:32:33.836
There is like an elegant like a sympathy there.

00:32:33.836 --> 00:32:40.219
But at that point in her life, Eleanor is so like her spirit is so burnt away.

00:32:40.219 --> 00:32:48.872
But it's just like they're never really going to have a heart to heart, but they can certainly look at each other and go like, yeah, we've been through some stuff, haven't we?

00:32:48.872 --> 00:32:50.221
Right.

00:32:50.443 --> 00:32:53.895
It was almost like she wanted to kill her darling a little bit.

00:32:53.895 --> 00:32:55.596
She's done it plenty of times.

00:32:55.596 --> 00:32:56.554
She could do it again.

00:32:56.554 --> 00:32:57.388
I wouldn't know.

00:32:57.388 --> 00:32:57.828
I couldn't.

00:32:57.828 --> 00:32:59.150
I could never explain.

00:32:59.150 --> 00:33:01.711
They're just like, who's the darling?

00:33:01.711 --> 00:33:02.622
Did she die?

00:33:02.622 --> 00:33:03.492
When did this happen?

00:33:03.492 --> 00:33:05.403
I didn't see it happen in the story.

00:33:06.023 --> 00:33:07.054
No, I love no.

00:33:07.054 --> 00:33:14.859
The thing I love about what you're you're both are saying right now is, again, this this they come from very similar seeds.

00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:34.738
rooted with, with, again, strongly connections and there, but also they have this, you know, the event of Rose's mother with Eleanor's son, this tragic incident that, that was an accident that kind of connects them forever now connects them, their fates, like they're intertwined nonstop.

00:33:34.738 --> 00:33:47.712
And it's crazy that they're both just so just, you know, traumatized by their past, by their, by their, by the, things that have occurred to them as they grew up and it's just insane to see again, Chris said it in his question.

00:33:47.712 --> 00:33:53.836
They both have their own, like, I don't, I don't say like crosses to bear and it is their choices.

00:33:53.836 --> 00:33:58.717
Like I love how you said that it's their choices that really, and that's the choices of killing your darling.

00:33:58.717 --> 00:34:09.791
So that's the choice of, of accepting your fate or that's the choice of, of again, I always remember the internship with, That movie is like, it's what you do after you get out of the blender.

00:34:09.791 --> 00:34:11.990
You know, it's what you do with those choices.

00:34:11.990 --> 00:34:14.322
I don't know if you guys remember the scene that I'm talking about.

00:34:14.322 --> 00:34:21.244
But anyways, I love just the fact that they both are given these very similar but different circumstances.

00:34:21.244 --> 00:34:27.856
And it's just the choices that really drives whether they continue to love or not love.

00:34:27.856 --> 00:34:32.177
maybe and maybe there would have been a time where they could have really helped each other through the world.

00:34:32.177 --> 00:34:35.275
But the sort of tragedy of it is it's just too late.

00:34:35.275 --> 00:34:37.887
Like it's like too much has happened.

00:34:38.186 --> 00:34:39.927
so now it's like, what do you do now?

00:34:39.927 --> 00:34:40.867
Yeah.

00:34:41.309 --> 00:34:41.608
Yep.

00:34:41.608 --> 00:34:45.900
So this conversation sort of reminded me of a short story I read recently called the thing in the forest.

00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:47.590
You guys familiar with this by A.S.

00:34:47.590 --> 00:34:48.130
Byatt?

00:34:48.130 --> 00:34:48.630
You familiar?

00:34:48.630 --> 00:34:56.304
No, It's basically about these two young girls during the war, war one era where they get sent off to this, you know, little girls camp during the war.

00:34:56.304 --> 00:35:00.896
So while that, you know, all the bombs are going off in the city, they sort of separated them from everybody else.

00:35:00.896 --> 00:35:13.623
And these two young girls, they escape off into the forest one night and they both sort of experience, they see this thing, they don't really, they explain it in the story, but it's sort of like just like sort of swamp thing, man thing as character or being whatever.

00:35:13.644 --> 00:35:15.994
And then the story sort of jumps forward, right?

00:35:15.994 --> 00:35:18.806
And then they both end up becoming these very different people.

00:35:18.806 --> 00:35:22.387
Like one, at the beginning of the story, one of the girls was sort of reserved and quiet.

00:35:22.387 --> 00:35:32.481
And then she grows up to be sort of a wild child and sort of like lives on the seat, you know, just lives by the seat of her pants and doesn't have kids and just sort of like is sort of just a sort of flower child in a way.

00:35:32.481 --> 00:35:37.195
And the other one who was sort of the more, the one who convinced the girl to go out, she becomes sort of the shut in.

00:35:37.195 --> 00:35:42.288
She becomes like almost a gorephobe because she's afraid of what she saw that day and she never was able to get over it.

00:35:42.288 --> 00:35:49.440
And in my opinion, it sort of highlights how we all respond very differently to traumatic events, right?

00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:59.217
And I think this is perfectly paralleled in this story between Eleanor and Rose, how one is sort of trying to overcome it while the other one is fixated on that trauma, right?

00:35:59.217 --> 00:36:00.117
Right.

00:36:00.237 --> 00:36:01.324
That's a great comparison.

00:36:01.324 --> 00:36:02.065
I really love that.

00:36:02.065 --> 00:36:06.757
Yeah, the two of them sort of use fantasy in different in different ways.

00:36:07.297 --> 00:36:13.492
And it's that they're sort of like a sadness to how much does fantasy encroach on your life?

00:36:13.492 --> 00:36:19.326
Like how much at a certain point does fantasy sort of override any hope that you have for anything real?

00:36:19.686 --> 00:36:53.626
Because even though Rose is the one who creates a whole literally creates a whole fantasy kingdom full of imaginary creatures and everything, Eleanor you know, for much, much longer lives in not necessarily, you know, a true version of her life because she's always playing different characters, more or less, as she bops around the globe and marries into a family, has a couple of kids, eats those kids, goes over to another family, presumably.

00:36:53.626 --> 00:36:58.208
So she's always in a different reality, so to speak.

00:36:58.208 --> 00:36:59.309
And so.

00:36:59.681 --> 00:37:03.623
They both are running away from the true version of their lives.

00:37:03.704 --> 00:37:15.434
Now, one thing that I wanted to ask about, and I'm very curious about this, is throughout the story, we see these, you these time jumps between, you know, modern day and Chris.

00:37:15.434 --> 00:37:21.757
I'm going to allow Chris to lay out some times, you know, along the timeline for us.

00:37:21.757 --> 00:37:27.416
Yeah, we've got 1692, 1700, 1887, 1977.

00:37:28.048 --> 00:37:31.289
1987, 1995 is kind of where we pick up in the story.

00:37:31.349 --> 00:37:35.789
2003, 2011, and then finally, 2027.

00:37:36.230 --> 00:37:48.329
we jump back and forth, you know, throughout the issues and we see glimpses of Eleanor in the past and Eleanor's families and again, Rose as well with her circumstances.

00:37:48.329 --> 00:37:53.769
And it's in Chapter five that we learn about the truth of Rose's mother and her involvement in the story.

00:37:53.769 --> 00:37:55.269
I'll start with you, Griffin.

00:37:55.269 --> 00:38:00.610
Can you expand on how you guys kind of came up with this strategy for the time jumping element?

00:38:00.610 --> 00:38:05.072
The time jumping actually was kind of a late edition.

00:38:05.791 --> 00:38:19.835
And that's because Eleanor as a main player in the story was a very late edition where we sort of stumbled upon her as the antagonist of the book.

00:38:20.556 --> 00:38:25.737
It was crazy the way that it happened where the main sort of conflict for a really long time was just Rose.

00:38:25.737 --> 00:38:34.425
against the entity and the entity would be taking on a few more different shapes than we see in this final version of the story.

00:38:36.186 --> 00:38:48.797
And then we got to this this moment with Andrea, which was born out of a just a sort of visual idea that Ethan had before we even started writing the book.

00:38:48.797 --> 00:38:55.539
It was kind of in the mix of ideas we were talking about as we were trying to formulate something.

00:38:55.539 --> 00:39:04.514
And this was in the mix with, don't know, I have this idea about like the spooky crayon drawings and what can we do with those?

00:39:04.514 --> 00:39:07.775
Using something really childlike to do something really horrific.

00:39:09.056 --> 00:39:23.251
And then when we wanted to expand on Andrea a bit more and have her do this terrible thing, we were like, let's use that idea of someone hitting a kid in the middle of the road in the middle of nowhere.

00:39:23.251 --> 00:39:24.891
And what do they do about it?

00:39:25.523 --> 00:39:29.405
where we thought that was a really interesting predicament to just put Andrea in.

00:39:29.585 --> 00:39:42.266
And then we were like, what if in the background we started like sowing little ideas that like in the news report, you can hear that the grave was like dug up and there was some sort of ritual done around it.

00:39:42.266 --> 00:39:47.884
And like, what if the kids grandma is like a witch or something and that's the origin of the evil.

00:39:47.884 --> 00:39:53.458
that we just never see that all happens off When we got to that, we were like, Jesus Christ, the book is about witches.

00:39:53.458 --> 00:39:57.443
Like, all just started like, it all just started like firing off like from that.

00:39:57.443 --> 00:40:01.947
Yeah, it's crazy how that just wasn't there for the longest time.

00:40:01.947 --> 00:40:15.507
And then when we were like, no, the grandmother, this grandmother character that curses Andrea, that puts this evil into the world that will eventually attach itself to Rose and cause all this terrible mess.

00:40:15.690 --> 00:40:16.360
that's the villain.

00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:16.900
No shit.

00:40:16.900 --> 00:40:17.630
We found her.

00:40:17.630 --> 00:40:23.692
It only took doing a pat like a whole pass on the series like twice before we did.

00:40:25.432 --> 00:40:28.333
And so then we were like, well, we have to bring her to the forefront.

00:40:28.333 --> 00:40:31.672
But also, fuck, we have a lot of story here.

00:40:31.672 --> 00:40:40.637
We're really sticking to eight issues and we're really sticking to 22 pages an issue for the most part, of course, for Bob's sake.

00:40:40.637 --> 00:40:45.318
So how can we fit in some time with her?

00:40:46.965 --> 00:40:49.585
to sort of flesh her out.

00:40:49.585 --> 00:40:52.206
Because right now it doesn't look like there's a lot of space.

00:40:52.405 --> 00:41:04.606
So then I had been talking about how I watched Breaking Bad for the first time while we started doing this, working on what would become Kill Your Darlings.

00:41:04.606 --> 00:41:14.956
And it was when I was watching season two, and season two Breaking Bad has all those excellent black and white cold opens that are alluding to, you know, what will eventually be revealed in the finale.

00:41:14.956 --> 00:41:17.768
And I was like, let's do that.

00:41:17.768 --> 00:41:19.708
Not like not even sideless.

00:41:19.708 --> 00:41:26.452
mean, obviously Breaking Bad didn't invent a cold open, but it was just where my head was at at the time it started as I want to do this.

00:41:26.452 --> 00:41:32.494
These openings that will sort of homage or sort of point to the villain.

00:41:32.775 --> 00:41:39.679
And then we will fully meet her later when we have space to do it properly.

00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:44.728
So, yeah, then we were like, OK, let's open each issue with a flashback.

00:41:44.728 --> 00:41:49.702
to the many, many years that this woman has evidently lived.

00:41:49.702 --> 00:41:56.005
And that just all started pouring out as we dug into what is the backstory of Eleanor and what's her deal.

00:41:56.005 --> 00:42:00.998
And then when it became clear that, there's a lot to get to, we were like, this is perfect.

00:42:00.998 --> 00:42:05.311
Let's just constantly do these time jumps then with these openers.

00:42:05.311 --> 00:42:10.135
And there's also the sort of book end, there's like an eight year time jump near the start of the book.

00:42:10.135 --> 00:42:13.557
And then there's an eight year time jump right at the end of the book.

00:42:13.784 --> 00:42:15.614
There's a lot to get into with that as well.

00:42:15.614 --> 00:42:25.496
But it's like we wanted this to be kind of a big sprawling saga that like covers Rose going from child to adult and and and expressing a lot about her through that.

00:42:25.496 --> 00:42:29.797
like even just Rose's life, it's like covers a lot of years.

00:42:29.797 --> 00:42:32.898
then and then it was like, and we're also jumping back a whole lot of years.

00:42:32.898 --> 00:42:35.219
So it's just like ended up being all over the place.

00:42:35.219 --> 00:42:36.599
But we kind of love it.

00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:37.036
Yeah.

00:42:37.036 --> 00:42:38.811
You know, I am curious.

00:42:38.811 --> 00:42:43.061
Just let's just say in a hypothetical fantasy Rose world.

00:42:43.527 --> 00:42:51.271
We could just strap Bob to a Jack Kirby art table and just have him draw as many pages as we wanted as quickly as possible.

00:42:51.271 --> 00:42:52.893
like this fantasy.

00:42:53.534 --> 00:42:56.135
How many issues would this story be for you guys?

00:42:56.135 --> 00:42:58.097
Like if you could expand it, would you?

00:42:58.317 --> 00:43:00.079
I mean, number of issues.

00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:01.248
We did talk about this.

00:43:01.248 --> 00:43:09.125
We did talk about when issue eight was super fucking long, we were like, uh-oh, it might have to be nine issues.

00:43:10.262 --> 00:43:15.684
I wouldn't want it to be more like I we really wanted it to be an open and shut like definitive thing.

00:43:15.684 --> 00:43:24.166
And we didn't want it to like, you know, talking about it being a big product saga, but like like in terms of the content, but we didn't necessarily we didn't want it to go super long.

00:43:24.166 --> 00:43:26.586
We wanted to be like, here's a book.

00:43:26.806 --> 00:43:29.677
And that was like really important to us the whole time.

00:43:29.677 --> 00:43:32.518
There's stuff I would love to expand on.

00:43:32.518 --> 00:43:34.630
There's stuff I would love to revisit and whatever.

00:43:34.630 --> 00:43:35.670
But like.

00:43:35.753 --> 00:43:40.516
In terms of this story, I really like it being contained to what it is.

00:43:40.976 --> 00:43:41.876
Definitely.

00:43:41.876 --> 00:43:47.719
I mean, there might have been a couple of issues where it's like, man, a couple extra pages would be great.

00:43:48.179 --> 00:43:55.902
And maybe not even to fit any story in, but to even just change the pacing of it a little bit.

00:43:57.083 --> 00:44:02.291
That said, the name of the game for this book was Efficiency.

00:44:02.291 --> 00:44:12.425
And Ethan and I wanted to train ourselves to be right at that 22 page mark that so many comics sit at, Like that's an acceptable length.

00:44:12.425 --> 00:44:20.849
And so we were like, well, for this first go, we should try and operate with that mindset as much as possible.

00:44:20.849 --> 00:44:26.291
so, yes, many darlings were killed to make the most efficient version of the story.

00:44:26.291 --> 00:44:28.262
And that was already the mindset we had.

00:44:28.262 --> 00:44:42.934
And then we also set kind of a rule for ourselves to not go over six panels per page for the most part, because that was like the sort of first that was a note that was a little piece of advice.

00:44:42.934 --> 00:44:53.362
I can't remember if it was Ryan or Donnie or both of them collectively, but somebody was like, hey, just put a cap on six and just see how it feels.

00:44:53.543 --> 00:44:58.646
And it helps because we also really love like it has such a cinematic quality.

00:44:58.838 --> 00:45:05.739
with Bob's art and so making sure that we can get those images as big as possible was important.

00:45:05.739 --> 00:45:09.041
And then also we just talked about the cold opens.

00:45:09.041 --> 00:45:09.831
The cold opens.

00:45:09.831 --> 00:45:10.380
I love them.

00:45:10.380 --> 00:45:11.451
I'm so glad we did them.

00:45:11.451 --> 00:45:13.481
That's exactly how I want to tell the story.

00:45:13.481 --> 00:45:21.494
That said, it did take about four pages off of that page count that we could use to tell the main part of the story.

00:45:21.494 --> 00:45:24.144
So then we had to get even more efficient.

00:45:24.144 --> 00:45:36.998
We had to find a way to do Rose's story in no, not 20 pages, closer to 16, 17 pages per issue.

00:45:36.998 --> 00:45:38.659
And we like readability.

00:45:38.659 --> 00:45:42.121
We like it to move at a clip.

00:45:42.822 --> 00:45:53.393
And so when you're trying to maintain that with fitting everything in that you need to without trying to have every character saying, this is what I'm dealing with and this is how I'm going to do it.

00:45:53.393 --> 00:45:54.693
It's just like.

00:45:54.978 --> 00:45:57.311
Woo, it is like a puzzle box for sure.

00:45:57.311 --> 00:46:00.224
Well, I mean, I'll tell you guys, re reading it for this conversation.

00:46:00.224 --> 00:46:01.574
It is extremely readable.

00:46:01.574 --> 00:46:06.001
It's one of those things where you look at the page and you're like, you see the automata P as you see the panel layouts.

00:46:06.001 --> 00:46:08.983
You're like, okay, I'm to have a good time with these couple of pages.

00:46:08.983 --> 00:46:15.851
And, know, speaking of our friend, Brian Michael Bendis there, you know, he's a legend obviously, but there have been times where I've been reading books from him.

00:46:15.851 --> 00:46:18.588
like, Holy crap, Brian, that's a lot of dialogue, man.

00:46:18.588 --> 00:46:20.059
What are we doing here?

00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:21.380
But you know, he's a genius.

00:46:21.380 --> 00:46:22.070
He knows what he's doing.

00:46:22.070 --> 00:46:22.431
I get it.

00:46:22.431 --> 00:46:39.860
But like just in terms of what you guys are talking about here with your first go around with your drawings, I think you guys did an incredible job of not only keeping it sort of fresh and just sort of like, like you said, sort of snappy, but you're also given you're giving Bob a lot of room to sort of play and let him sort of showcase what he's really good at.

00:46:39.860 --> 00:46:47.867
And I think I said it in the first conversation and it just rang true all the way through the series after issue one and two that This is the best that Bob's ever been.

00:46:48.628 --> 00:46:54.494
it is I told everyone last year that issue one was up there as one of my favorite single issues of the year.

00:46:54.494 --> 00:46:56.514
And I stand by that still.

00:46:57.115 --> 00:47:01.619
And I think I say this as someone who enjoys the medium and I love the content of the story.

00:47:01.619 --> 00:47:11.588
But I feel like I could hand this I could I could hand the first issue to anyone who hasn't read a comic and they could I think it would honestly be Bob's art that would be like that would pull them in.

00:47:11.588 --> 00:47:12.168
Right.

00:47:12.168 --> 00:47:12.619
for sure.

00:47:12.619 --> 00:47:13.293
Yeah.

00:47:13.293 --> 00:47:19.914
Yeah, he brought he brought it to life and he and he made sure that yeah, people like like even just the cover.

00:47:19.914 --> 00:47:20.273
Yeah.

00:47:20.273 --> 00:47:33.333
One is just like it just like draws you in like you're on this path with Rose and we were so spoiled with him because yeah, he really like sold us in a way that we will be eternally grateful for.

00:47:33.333 --> 00:47:38.094
But you know, to speak on that and I'm sorry, I I didn't tell her this.

00:47:38.094 --> 00:47:39.994
So, OK, I'll just let me go into this really quick.

00:47:39.994 --> 00:47:42.380
My girlfriend and I, we went to a comic shop here recently.

00:47:42.380 --> 00:47:44.411
And we're just looking at the wall of trades.

00:47:44.411 --> 00:47:51.893
And I didn't mention that I knew you guys, but she pointed at this book on the shelf because of the design.

00:47:51.893 --> 00:47:54.567
Like she she wanted to read it because she saw the cover.

00:47:54.567 --> 00:47:56.885
Well, first of she saw like the blood splatter on this.

00:47:56.885 --> 00:48:00.038
not blood splatter, but where everyone like the pink splatter here on the side.

00:48:00.038 --> 00:48:00.608
Yeah.

00:48:00.608 --> 00:48:02.659
the pink and white really pop on a shelf.

00:48:02.659 --> 00:48:03.918
And again, how thick it is.

00:48:03.918 --> 00:48:05.420
You're getting your money's worth with this trade.

00:48:05.420 --> 00:48:06.315
But then she looked at it.

00:48:06.315 --> 00:48:10.521
She saw the cover and she was like, I want I told her I would buy her.

00:48:10.827 --> 00:48:13.338
like a trade to get, she read saga for me guys.

00:48:13.338 --> 00:48:14.777
I'm truly blessed over here.

00:48:14.777 --> 00:48:17.992
And I was like, for your next venture, you can pick whatever you want to read.

00:48:17.992 --> 00:48:19.623
And I can sort of guide you in that way.

00:48:19.623 --> 00:48:25.655
If you, you, if I think it's a book and she picked this one, I'm like, don't worry, babe, I have one already.

00:48:25.655 --> 00:48:26.376
You're totally fine.

00:48:26.376 --> 00:48:28.197
And also I know the guys.

00:48:28.197 --> 00:48:30.027
So nice, nice, nice.

00:48:30.027 --> 00:48:30.349
Yeah.

00:48:30.349 --> 00:48:31.469
I just want to this out there.

00:48:31.469 --> 00:48:48.579
Also I have, so an anecdote about this and I know I keep touching on the, you know, kill your darling's title, but I wanted to just tell you when exactly like it hit me where it like really, and I want to say it was, I want to say it was issue seven, which we keep mentioning issue seven.

00:48:48.900 --> 00:48:52.063
And I'll it's, and I think it's the, think it's issue seven.

00:48:52.063 --> 00:48:59.889
It's when Eleanor picks up the hedgehog and just obliterates the hedgehog.

00:49:00.070 --> 00:49:02.983
And like at that point, and it was like, and it just went to nothing.

00:49:02.983 --> 00:49:05.454
And she's like, they they they're so frail.

00:49:05.576 --> 00:49:10.815
And I think that that was the perfect like metaphor for like kill your darlings.

00:49:10.815 --> 00:49:13.487
My wife read that issue, read all the issues in front of me.

00:49:13.487 --> 00:49:17.501
And when she got to that bit, she literally put it down and went, fuck you.

00:49:19.242 --> 00:49:22.105
Spiky or three children.

00:49:22.105 --> 00:49:25.318
Yeah, he left behind a family of three children.

00:49:25.318 --> 00:49:26.027
My wife.

00:49:26.027 --> 00:49:27.168
Yeah, no, that one.

00:49:27.168 --> 00:49:28.349
That one hurt for sure.

00:49:28.349 --> 00:49:29.170
No, appreciate that.

00:49:29.170 --> 00:49:37.398
Yeah, that bit is really like it sucks because yeah, it is like the frailty of these things that Rose has created that got her through her life.

00:49:37.398 --> 00:49:38.057
It is.

00:49:38.057 --> 00:49:40.760
It really gives you a sense of that vulnerability.

00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:47.295
Visually, this book brings you to a place and not just in like, it's like in The Matrix.

00:49:47.295 --> 00:49:53.038
You know, when you watch The Matrix, when you're in The Matrix, it's like it has that green hue to it.

00:49:53.038 --> 00:49:56.070
And then when you're in the real world, it's all dull and crappy.

00:49:56.570 --> 00:50:04.376
there's but you feel that when you're reading this book, because there's times and it's not just like the difference between the fantasy world and the real world.

00:50:04.376 --> 00:50:06.570
It's the emotions.

00:50:06.570 --> 00:50:13.443
Like the colors and the writing blend so well into these emotional moments that you're having where it's so dark.

00:50:13.443 --> 00:50:20.436
Like when Rose first goes into that forest and approaches the cave and it's so dark and all the only color you see is in that pool of energy.

00:50:20.436 --> 00:50:23.896
It's just wild how well it all just meshes together.

00:50:23.916 --> 00:50:36.702
So I really enjoy like, visually and cohesively with the writing, it just blended so well into that story and really hit those elements where it was like an emotional, like again, hey, I'm just hedgy, done.

00:50:36.833 --> 00:50:37.673
Really appreciate it.

00:50:37.673 --> 00:50:40.175
Bob nails the tone every time with the colors.

00:50:40.175 --> 00:50:42.396
Like he is a wizard with colors.

00:50:42.396 --> 00:50:48.619
And like every time we would write a scene and then and then see the colors, like you'd see the line art and it's like, yeah, he's nailing it.

00:50:48.619 --> 00:50:53.400
But then the colors would come in and it's like, shit, he's so on the same page with us.

00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:56.181
Like he knows exactly what we're trying to get across here.

00:50:56.181 --> 00:50:56.771
Like the color.

00:50:56.771 --> 00:51:04.465
It's crazy how much the colors of an environment can tell you about what characters are dealing with internally and put you in the same spot as them.

00:51:04.465 --> 00:51:06.219
And he's so good at.

00:51:06.219 --> 00:51:09.690
Yeah, you don't really think about that, psychology of the colors.

00:51:11.132 --> 00:51:16.744
He too, he has such a simple, like when he turns in inks, it's very clean.

00:51:16.744 --> 00:51:20.836
It's very simple, especially because he's doing it all for himself.

00:51:21.237 --> 00:51:31.380
Him sending us like the pencils and the inks are mostly so we can just tell him if something is absolutely not going to like work with whatever's coming next or whatever.

00:51:32.449 --> 00:51:42.177
But then, yeah, when Bob does the colors, especially, yes, on his own stuff, so much of what ends up in the final result comes from the colors.

00:51:42.177 --> 00:51:45.280
And so that was always mind blowing.

00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:52.527
And we spent a lot of time talking about the colors of the book and wanting to make sure that there was an intentionality to the colors.

00:51:52.527 --> 00:52:03.356
And then when we asked Bob for some colored stuff before we actually got going, he sent over a super simple piece of like young Rose in the rain.

00:52:03.356 --> 00:52:05.757
And I was like, he's going to get it.

00:52:05.757 --> 00:52:08.208
It's to be totally fucking fine.

00:52:08.208 --> 00:52:09.177
That's incredible.

00:52:09.177 --> 00:52:11.039
Yeah.

00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:11.778
Incredible work.

00:52:11.778 --> 00:52:12.708
That's awesome.

00:52:12.708 --> 00:52:15.369
OK, so let's go ahead and get back to the story here a little bit.

00:52:15.369 --> 00:52:19.650
I do want to pick your brain a little bit about sort of the aftermath of this story.

00:52:19.650 --> 00:52:28.853
So after Rosewood is saved and Rose reasons with Eleanor, we get the sort of this tease of a quote realm of terrors.

00:52:28.873 --> 00:52:31.157
And at the same time, we see the fantasy world.

00:52:31.157 --> 00:52:34.259
almost fully integrate into our normal world.

00:52:34.298 --> 00:52:36.190
And this is sort of the way I interpret it.

00:52:36.190 --> 00:52:39.001
You guys again can tell me what you were sort of aiming for.

00:52:39.001 --> 00:52:41.952
But again, like we spoke about earlier, it's sort of, I guess, up to the reader.

00:52:41.952 --> 00:52:49.565
But the way I interpret it was our dreams can be real if we fight for them and they deserve a responsible amount of space in our real lives.

00:52:49.565 --> 00:52:55.489
That's sort of how I interpreted that that final moment there where they all sort of transition over into the real world.

00:52:55.489 --> 00:52:56.989
Chris, I like that.

00:52:56.989 --> 00:52:58.230
It's so deep.

00:52:59.815 --> 00:53:01.137
Ethan, I want to start with you here first.

00:53:01.137 --> 00:53:07.942
So am I close there or was it were you guys going for something else with sort of that finale with the the fantasy world sort of coming over into the real world?

00:53:07.942 --> 00:53:22.094
Yeah, no, I mean, I love I love the way you put that and like and I like that you brought up the realm of terrors as well, because like that is sort of that's the sort of thing that bubbles in the background a little bit is like where the great and terrible evil came from, like where it was summoned from.

00:53:22.094 --> 00:53:24.014
You get a peek of that in five.

00:53:24.014 --> 00:53:33.173
And then when we see it in eight, Eleanor says like I don't know, man, maybe maybe maybe this terrible thing is it came from me.

00:53:33.173 --> 00:53:37.090
If this lovely place came from you, maybe this is what I had inside.

00:53:37.090 --> 00:53:45.239
And like and so like there is this sort of element to especially and to the resolution, especially about the sorts of things that we bring into the world.

00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:53.070
And like and and if if we go through all this shit in our lives, like what is the result of it?

00:53:53.070 --> 00:53:57.824
And like and like how does that impact the sort of mark that we leave behind?

00:53:58.289 --> 00:54:07.393
And with Rose, it's like the whole series, you're like she created wonderful things as a child because like we're all very capable of that as children.

00:54:07.393 --> 00:54:12.014
We become so much less capable of it at a certain point, at least a lot of us do.

00:54:12.014 --> 00:54:15.875
And you sort of watch the whole book like that stuff's withering.

00:54:15.875 --> 00:54:20.635
Like it's like she's watching those amazing things that she created sort of die and go away.

00:54:20.635 --> 00:54:28.052
And so like like we really determined that the end of this book, it was going to end on this kind of this kind of lovely note.

00:54:28.052 --> 00:54:30.125
It's obviously not a fully happy ending.

00:54:30.125 --> 00:54:35.759
there are sad things and whatever, but it's like generally things end in a pretty nice spot for these characters.

00:54:35.759 --> 00:54:42.655
And like that ended up sort of being the most subversive thing after the book being so dark for the entire the entire run.

00:54:42.655 --> 00:54:48.969
And and so like that that given that that we were like, that's sort of the emotional place that we want to end.

00:54:48.969 --> 00:54:59.268
It's like that door opening and that stuff coming out into our world felt very true to us in terms of Rose as an It's like she's been through all of this.

00:55:00.349 --> 00:55:03.512
This is what it looked like as she got older.

00:55:03.512 --> 00:55:07.255
This is what her relationship to this stuff, how it evolved as she got older.

00:55:07.255 --> 00:55:13.882
But ultimately, as she made it to the other side of a lot of this stuff, this was what she let out into the world.

00:55:13.882 --> 00:55:17.565
because we wanted to see a little bit of the result of that.

00:55:17.565 --> 00:55:35.769
And when I finally got to read the PDF of issue eight for the first time, I fucking broke down and cried when I read the bit where the little girl hugs Wallace because like that moment is so like epitomal to Rose's journey where it's like, look what she did.

00:55:35.769 --> 00:55:44.576
Like she went through all of this and now look at this moment this little girl has where she gets to look at this thing and she feels something beyond herself.

00:55:44.576 --> 00:55:47.476
And so yeah, again, it's like without like...

00:55:48.043 --> 00:55:49.775
you know, cracking it too far open.

00:55:49.775 --> 00:55:52.237
It's like that's sort of where our heads were at with that.

00:55:52.237 --> 00:55:54.818
like, yeah, I love the way you put it for sure.

00:55:55.079 --> 00:56:09.429
Unintentionally, it became about, I mean, the whole book is we've talked about it, about creativity and imagination and bringing things to life and magic.

00:56:09.429 --> 00:56:16.820
And really, that's just what making a piece of art is all about.

00:56:16.820 --> 00:56:30.922
And so the ending ended up being about us making our first comic book and taking something from our minds and bringing it out into the real world for other people to experience.

00:56:31.362 --> 00:56:41.630
And so that ended up being a pretty, I can't even remember if that came to us first or if that came to us after we wrote it.

00:56:41.630 --> 00:56:44.353
At this point, it just all blends together.

00:56:45.326 --> 00:56:50.766
I remember at some point it clicked where it was just like, this is about us making a comic book, dude.

00:56:50.766 --> 00:56:51.925
Yeah.

00:56:52.965 --> 00:56:58.286
And we've mentioned a bunch of the rows in the book itself are like kind of aspirational in some ways.

00:56:58.286 --> 00:57:10.646
And it's like a lot of stuff about that ending, like that moment and the moment she has with her son at the end are like they're sort of these moments of like maybe they're not things we're exactly experiencing at this moment.

00:57:10.646 --> 00:57:12.335
Like the book wasn't out in the world.

00:57:12.335 --> 00:57:14.157
We weren't done with it like.

00:57:14.157 --> 00:57:18.697
It's like some of it's kind of theoretical and hypothetical, but it's like, I don't know.

00:57:18.697 --> 00:57:22.387
This is like what I want to, again, put out there.

00:57:22.387 --> 00:57:24.047
Like this is what I'm hoping to say.

00:57:24.047 --> 00:57:25.507
Like I hope for this.

00:57:25.507 --> 00:57:27.637
I hope that I could handle things like this.

00:57:27.637 --> 00:57:30.197
I hope that I leave something behind like this.

00:57:30.197 --> 00:57:32.777
Like it's like at a certain point, the book stops going.

00:57:32.777 --> 00:57:34.467
Look at all this fucked up shit I've been through.

00:57:34.467 --> 00:57:37.197
And it goes like, I don't know, wouldn't this be nice?

00:57:37.197 --> 00:57:39.842
You know, I love.

00:57:39.842 --> 00:57:46.083
thinking about this book as being like a metaphor kind of like for you guys, like almost like a reflection of you two.

00:57:46.083 --> 00:57:52.425
like, I can see it like, you know, I would ask like who's Eleanor and which of you is Rose.

00:57:52.885 --> 00:57:54.346
We are both both.

00:57:54.346 --> 00:57:56.166
We are both both.

00:57:56.286 --> 00:58:03.407
Looks weird naked, but again, flashbacks to the substance.

00:58:03.409 --> 00:58:19.771
no, my real question would be, but no, I do, I do see some similarities between you know, like what you said, like releasing the book and like that's, that's you guys cracking open your brain and letting out this amazing creativity and, this love letter to, you know, letting good things out and into the world.

00:58:19.771 --> 00:58:22.661
Like that is kind of how the finale of this book ends up.

00:58:22.661 --> 00:58:26.862
But my real question, because you know, none of, none of enough of that touchy feely stuff.

00:58:27.061 --> 00:58:29.802
why, why did you name the sword Francine?

00:58:33.389 --> 00:58:34.610
That's a great question.

00:58:34.610 --> 00:58:36.269
Nobody cares about this other than me.

00:58:36.269 --> 00:58:38.349
But I got a cold journalism right there, everybody.

00:58:38.349 --> 00:58:39.679
No, no, no, no.

00:58:39.679 --> 00:58:45.920
It's a great question because it's like it's such a it's such a like wonderful, like little detail in there that like I'm so attached to.

00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:51.349
And she came up a minute ago, but that was actually my wife's contribution to the book was we were kicking back.

00:58:51.349 --> 00:58:53.750
We knew we wanted the sword to have a person name.

00:58:53.750 --> 00:58:59.679
Like we just thought it would be funny if a little girl named a sword like Paul or something like it had like like a regular.

00:58:59.679 --> 00:58:59.789
Yeah.

00:58:59.789 --> 00:59:06.068
For a moment, we had considered something, you know, big and fantastical and badass sounding.

00:59:06.068 --> 00:59:06.507
Right.

00:59:06.507 --> 00:59:09.148
And then we were like, OK, no way.

00:59:09.148 --> 00:59:09.938
It's funny.

00:59:09.938 --> 00:59:11.617
It's 1995.

00:59:11.617 --> 00:59:13.697
I have to name I have to give something a name.

00:59:13.697 --> 00:59:16.307
It's probably going to be a person name.

00:59:16.307 --> 00:59:21.818
It's not going to be a name that a couple of dudes in their 20s writing a fucking badass comic book with.

00:59:21.818 --> 00:59:22.297
Right.

00:59:22.297 --> 00:59:22.547
Right.

00:59:22.547 --> 00:59:23.338
Apocalypse.

00:59:23.338 --> 00:59:24.398
Should have called it like McCauley.

00:59:24.398 --> 00:59:25.757
is like an important sound.

00:59:25.757 --> 00:59:29.668
So yeah, trying to capture what a kid like Rose would would would be into.

00:59:29.668 --> 00:59:30.733
And so.

00:59:30.733 --> 00:59:33.693
I threw that to my wife of like, do you think of this list of names?

00:59:33.693 --> 00:59:36.373
And then she just threw out Francine and I was like, that's perfect.

00:59:36.373 --> 00:59:48.813
And that was a really cool thing too, for like us getting to share this book with people for the first time, like having family and loved ones, like read it in front of us and like see people experience that sort of thing for the first time.

00:59:48.813 --> 00:59:55.380
Getting to show her issue four and it gets to this moment of Rose like climbing that like mountain of.

00:59:55.380 --> 01:00:00.554
shit in the, the, in the cave and then like calling out to Francine and pulling it in that full page splash.

01:00:00.554 --> 01:00:01.465
What a cool thing.

01:00:01.465 --> 01:00:04.907
Like, like such a cool moment that like she was able to influence that.

01:00:04.907 --> 01:00:09.780
Like, and it's just like, there were so many moments like that along the way where it's like, God, making shit is so cool.

01:00:09.780 --> 01:00:14.744
Like, and getting to share it and like, and the way that that sort of soup like cooks together.

01:00:14.963 --> 01:00:15.195
yeah.

01:00:15.195 --> 01:00:15.862
Thank you for asking.

01:00:15.862 --> 01:00:16.887
That was a great question.

01:00:16.887 --> 01:00:18.666
No, it's just, it's a, I think it parallels again.

01:00:18.666 --> 01:00:22.860
It's a great, point where again, your real life.

01:00:23.021 --> 01:00:26.961
characters and experiences influence the things that you create.

01:00:26.961 --> 01:00:35.021
And just like this little girl that, you know, probably even those those monster cards that her and you know, that they were playing with influenced the creatures.

01:00:35.021 --> 01:00:37.902
And it's just I yeah, yeah.

01:00:37.902 --> 01:00:38.902
Yeah.

01:00:38.902 --> 01:00:39.541
yeah.

01:00:39.541 --> 01:00:39.742
Yeah.

01:00:39.742 --> 01:00:41.081
Again, I really enjoy it.

01:00:41.081 --> 01:00:41.961
So thank you for sharing that.

01:00:41.961 --> 01:00:42.802
I appreciate that.

01:00:42.802 --> 01:00:43.012
yeah.

01:00:43.012 --> 01:00:43.581
Thank you.

01:00:43.581 --> 01:00:47.601
I if it's up to us, we're going to get to make Beatembeast cards one day.

01:00:47.601 --> 01:00:48.862
I want that so bad.

01:00:48.862 --> 01:00:51.672
I want Wallace plushies and I want Beatembeast cards.

01:00:51.672 --> 01:00:52.192
There you go.

01:00:52.192 --> 01:00:53.003
Yeah.

01:00:53.003 --> 01:00:55.224
We have one more piece of gotcha journalism here.

01:00:55.224 --> 01:00:58.876
So in the epilogue, we end up in the year 2027.

01:00:58.876 --> 01:01:07.697
So in the near future with Rose and Elliot having made a life for themselves and they have a child of their own with their picket fence and their house and all that jazz.

01:01:07.697 --> 01:01:11.318
So Griffin, I'm going to put the spotlight on you here.

01:01:11.378 --> 01:01:16.110
Is it fair to assume that we could maybe see some more in this universe in the future?

01:01:16.110 --> 01:01:18.271
Hmm.

01:01:18.271 --> 01:01:19.960
Huh?

01:01:20.141 --> 01:01:27.123
we talked about this earlier saying that Kill Your Darlings was always meant to be an eight-issue miniseries.

01:01:27.563 --> 01:01:33.364
Actually, it started out as seven and then it became eight.

01:01:33.364 --> 01:01:39.907
But for a long time, eight-issue miniseries, complete thing, beginning, middle and end.

01:01:39.907 --> 01:01:41.277
That is what we wanted it to be.

01:01:41.277 --> 01:01:42.706
That's what it is.

01:01:43.208 --> 01:01:44.728
Will we ever go back?

01:01:44.728 --> 01:01:49.668
Because there is so much room to play and we love those characters and we love that world.

01:01:50.269 --> 01:01:50.710
I don't know.

01:01:50.710 --> 01:01:51.436
Who knows?

01:01:51.436 --> 01:02:04.489
Maybe I'm not going to say don't don't I don't want to say I don't want to say no, but there are no plans currently because it's already exactly what we wanted it to be.

01:02:04.489 --> 01:02:04.829
Yeah.

01:02:04.829 --> 01:02:06.389
Well, like there are no plans.

01:02:06.389 --> 01:02:09.331
We've thrown things to each other that were like, that would be neat.

01:02:09.331 --> 01:02:14.313
like and like there was even something recently that I was turning over in my head that I was like, that's a fun idea.

01:02:14.313 --> 01:02:18.614
But at the moment, no.

01:02:18.614 --> 01:02:19.202
But.

01:02:19.202 --> 01:02:21.802
If you like this, we are cooking lots of other stuff.

01:02:22.643 --> 01:02:26.784
Something we've only sort of mentioned throughout the story is that this was Iser nominated.

01:02:26.784 --> 01:02:29.514
This was the best limited series from last year at the Isers.

01:02:29.514 --> 01:02:30.344
Yes.

01:02:30.364 --> 01:02:31.405
Incredible guys.

01:02:31.405 --> 01:02:32.896
That is so crazy.

01:02:32.896 --> 01:02:47.090
I was there that night and I, know, I was, I, whenever they called it out, I don't know if you guys heard me, you probably didn't cause you were sitting up at the front with all the, you were rubbing elbows with the big wigs, but I yelled as loud as I could whenever they announced kill your daughter.

01:02:47.090 --> 01:02:48.630
it from the press area.

01:02:48.630 --> 01:02:59.592
And I think there are more nominations in the future for you gentlemen, but I do think that it is truly a, it's a beacon for you guys that your first work ends up being something that's either nominated.

01:02:59.592 --> 01:03:00.902
I think that's incredible.

01:03:00.902 --> 01:03:02.273
So thank you so much.

01:03:02.273 --> 01:03:03.376
It's crazy, man.

01:03:03.376 --> 01:03:04.653
It's ridiculous.

01:03:04.954 --> 01:03:07.414
Like I cannot believe that happened.

01:03:07.414 --> 01:03:11.255
And also it's super stressful writing all the followups.

01:03:11.255 --> 01:03:14.257
It's really stressful to be one for one.

01:03:14.257 --> 01:03:15.637
That was not a consideration.

01:03:15.637 --> 01:03:17.197
It wasn't like we should go out for that.

01:03:17.197 --> 01:03:20.367
Like it was like it was never like maybe we should like we can aim for it.

01:03:20.367 --> 01:03:21.858
And like it was never a thought.

01:03:21.858 --> 01:03:24.427
So like the fact that it happened is now like, God damn it.

01:03:24.427 --> 01:03:27.577
Now we have to like now we have to do all the expectations.

01:03:27.577 --> 01:03:28.577
Damn it.

01:03:28.577 --> 01:03:29.217
Yeah.

01:03:29.217 --> 01:03:29.768
Fuck.

01:03:29.768 --> 01:03:33.318
It was so much better when nobody knew the fuck we were.

01:03:35.137 --> 01:03:38.047
That's I mean, that's what Chris and I were like talking about before.

01:03:38.047 --> 01:03:46.186
We were kind of like coming up with questions, you know, a little behind the scenes of the Oblivion bar was, you know, I was like we were talking about the time jumps.

01:03:46.186 --> 01:03:55.371
and how to like approach it into quite, I'm just like, I feel like it was, I was like, feel like it's intentional because there's so many different things, so many ways to approach it.

01:03:55.371 --> 01:04:06.467
If they wanted like spin-offs or they wanted additional stories, you know, they can have like those eight years, know, like Rose could be going off on adventures, like in the different parts of the world.

01:04:06.467 --> 01:04:07.557
Like there's so much there.

01:04:07.557 --> 01:04:15.081
like, I know from me, the excitement would definitely be there to see more, you know, more Rosewood.

01:04:15.465 --> 01:04:16.306
adventures.

01:04:16.306 --> 01:04:28.666
But before we let you go, you know, and before we, you know, send you off with our thank yous and our appreciations, we'd like to, we'd like to end the conversation by asking our guests what they've been enjoying recently.

01:04:28.666 --> 01:04:30.536
So I'm going to start with you, Ethan.

01:04:30.536 --> 01:04:31.246
I'm going start with you.

01:04:31.246 --> 01:04:39.726
This can be a movie, comic, video game, podcasts, whatever you've been enjoying, enjoying, and whatever you want to highlight.

01:04:40.005 --> 01:04:40.846
man.

01:04:40.846 --> 01:04:45.369
I have one that's a Pretty good fit for a Kill Your Darling's conversation.

01:04:45.369 --> 01:04:52.836
I just finished the anime Free Rin, I think it's called Free Rin Beyond Journey's End, I think is what it's called.

01:04:53.418 --> 01:05:14.664
for anybody that doesn't know about that, it's about an elf character who she was part of an adventuring party in a fantasy world that basically had the Lord of the Rings journey where it's like you go to kill a demon king and you save the Dungeons and Dragons-esque, Middle Earth-esque world, but then like She's an elf, so she lives like hundreds and hundreds of years.

01:05:14.664 --> 01:05:16.494
And so she outlives her whole party.

01:05:16.494 --> 01:05:17.275
They all die.

01:05:17.275 --> 01:05:22.356
and and and so it's like hundreds of years after they've already had that whole journey.

01:05:22.356 --> 01:05:24.818
And it's just like, OK, what now?

01:05:24.818 --> 01:05:26.648
And she's still sort of walking the earth.

01:05:26.648 --> 01:05:31.259
And it is like it's it's only like 20 something episodes they're doing a season two.

01:05:31.259 --> 01:05:38.190
But it was like, man, it is it is one of the best written shows I've I've I've seen in a very long time.

01:05:38.190 --> 01:05:40.824
And it's like it got me very emotional and like it like.

01:05:40.824 --> 01:06:00.184
touches on some of the stuff that we were doing with Kill Your Darlings and in a fantasy setting too, where it's like, it's very funny, but it's also like, it really like dives into loss and some very real feelings of just like what it's like to move through this world and how tough that can be, but how people sort of hold each other up through it.

01:06:00.264 --> 01:06:01.985
Beautiful, beautiful show.

01:06:02.246 --> 01:06:03.907
Really, really highly recommend it.

01:06:03.907 --> 01:06:04.117
Yeah.

01:06:04.117 --> 01:06:05.206
How'd you watch it?

01:06:05.367 --> 01:06:06.387
It's on Crunchyroll, man.

01:06:06.387 --> 01:06:07.204
Crunchyroll, okay.

01:06:07.204 --> 01:06:07.824
Gotcha.

01:06:07.824 --> 01:06:09.070
All right, cool.

01:06:09.070 --> 01:06:10.230
Griffin, how about you?

01:06:12.094 --> 01:06:12.304
Mm.

01:06:12.304 --> 01:06:14.235
The substance you've been loving.

01:06:14.577 --> 01:06:15.336
Megalopolis.

01:06:15.336 --> 01:06:17.998
You just you really want to talk about the substance.

01:06:17.998 --> 01:06:19.173
I don't.

01:06:19.173 --> 01:06:20.360
Aaron does it.

01:06:20.501 --> 01:06:21.681
I don't mind that movie.

01:06:21.681 --> 01:06:23.661
was fucking crazy.

01:06:24.182 --> 01:06:26.813
It was it was a wild theatrical experience.

01:06:26.813 --> 01:06:32.288
It was one of those moments where I was like, I can't believe I get to see this with a bunch of people because it was a sold out show.

01:06:32.288 --> 01:06:34.199
It's a word of mouth on that thing has been crazy.

01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:35.380
Yeah.

01:06:35.393 --> 01:06:37.496
My brain is so broken every time you're mentioning it.

01:06:37.496 --> 01:06:55.190
I'm hearing sub stack You've been subpilled Yeah Some comics that I have been really enjoying A couple of like fresh series.

01:06:55.190 --> 01:06:55.820
Of course.

01:06:55.820 --> 01:06:57.351
The moon is following us.

01:06:57.351 --> 01:07:03.257
Daniel Warren Johnson Riley Rosmo fucking a What a team up.

01:07:03.257 --> 01:07:06.786
Yeah, damn it Issue one was so good.

01:07:07.365 --> 01:07:09.166
Jeff, you would like that one.

01:07:09.166 --> 01:07:09.826
Arcana.

01:07:09.826 --> 01:07:10.885
Yep.

01:07:11.786 --> 01:07:19.976
I've I've I've really liked I love it whenever Lemure is doing doing the whole shebang and I shut really quick.

01:07:19.976 --> 01:07:26.505
I shudder to say this live here during a recording because we haven't done it yet, but we're supposed you guys are part of our interview.

01:07:26.505 --> 01:07:29.202
Or there you go.

01:07:29.202 --> 01:07:31.112
It's our New York Comic Con interview.

01:07:31.112 --> 01:07:31.913
I we do it every year.

01:07:31.913 --> 01:07:35.065
We release an episode every day of New York Comic Con.

01:07:35.065 --> 01:07:37.005
And usually it's a maniac.

01:07:37.005 --> 01:07:44.541
I know it's so stupid, but the episode he says that having planted out to a T every fucking year.

01:07:44.541 --> 01:07:51.054
The episode, the episode before you guys is Jeff Lemire talking about minor.

01:07:51.054 --> 01:07:52.855
So we'll see.

01:07:52.855 --> 01:07:53.715
It hasn't happened yet.

01:07:53.715 --> 01:07:54.835
It was supposed to happen last week.

01:07:54.835 --> 01:07:55.646
He had to reschedule.

01:07:55.646 --> 01:07:56.606
So hopefully it happens.

01:07:56.606 --> 01:07:57.934
But if not, we have.

01:07:57.934 --> 01:07:58.543
We have you guys.

01:07:58.543 --> 01:08:00.713
We'll just split this up into two pieces and we'll release it both days.

01:08:00.713 --> 01:08:09.434
We almost got to do a panel with them at this recent San Diego, but he had to drop out, unfortunately.

01:08:09.454 --> 01:08:12.594
But hopefully someday because we're big fans.

01:08:12.653 --> 01:08:14.434
Griffin, what were you going to say after Miner Akani?

01:08:14.434 --> 01:08:16.314
You had one other one.

01:08:16.854 --> 01:08:18.474
Falling in love on the path to hell.

01:08:18.474 --> 01:08:21.533
I've been really digg-ing.

01:08:24.381 --> 01:08:26.341
some movies.

01:08:26.341 --> 01:08:34.487
I mean, it's spooky season, so I've been watching a bunch of horror stuff and been going back some of the great guys running down the list.

01:08:34.487 --> 01:08:35.766
God damn.

01:08:35.947 --> 01:08:39.689
I like to share with the people monopolizing your time.

01:08:40.170 --> 01:08:41.390
No, I love it.

01:08:41.770 --> 01:08:43.225
So what's some of the horror films you've been seeing?

01:08:43.225 --> 01:08:45.242
Because actually, my girlfriend and I, did the same thing.

01:08:45.242 --> 01:08:53.597
We created like a horror fest list where she picked three movies and I picked three movies and we and then at the end, once we've both watched each other's options, we're going to.

01:08:53.597 --> 01:08:56.179
end the horror fest on Halloween with Hereditary.

01:08:56.179 --> 01:08:58.579
So that's gonna be our final film.

01:08:58.579 --> 01:09:01.541
just ran Hereditary last night.

01:09:02.322 --> 01:09:04.942
Yep, just still upsetting.

01:09:05.222 --> 01:09:07.484
Still very upsetting.

01:09:07.484 --> 01:09:12.685
I've gone back to some classics that I haven't gone back to in a really long time this year.

01:09:13.405 --> 01:09:18.507
Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Silence of the Lambs, Carrie.

01:09:19.408 --> 01:09:23.630
All of these like staples, these things that we kind of take for granted.

01:09:23.630 --> 01:09:30.970
And I haven't watched them in a couple of years because it's like, yeah, I've seen them, you know, a handful of times in my life already.

01:09:30.970 --> 01:09:32.569
And they're great.

01:09:32.569 --> 01:09:41.329
And then, you know, every single time I watch, you know, any of those ones, I'm just like, fuck, man, that is a really good movie.

01:09:41.329 --> 01:09:43.850
That's a really spooky movie.

01:09:43.850 --> 01:09:45.899
Well, they really did that, didn't they?

01:09:45.899 --> 01:09:47.069
They did.

01:09:47.086 --> 01:09:57.065
I had the opportunity to watch Texas Chainsaw with an audience in a theater for the first time and that was like a whole different thing.

01:09:57.145 --> 01:09:59.405
So here's my recommendation.

01:09:59.405 --> 01:10:10.046
Like if you are sitting here with like a list, because like I still have some some iconic movies that I haven't just actually put the time in to watch because I'm like, yeah, I know they're great.

01:10:10.046 --> 01:10:11.485
Everyone knows they're great.

01:10:11.485 --> 01:10:12.895
Everyone's talked about them to death.

01:10:12.895 --> 01:10:15.046
What do I got to fucking watch them for?

01:10:16.078 --> 01:10:17.488
Go and go and do them.

01:10:17.488 --> 01:10:21.618
Go and watch them because like, hey, they are great.

01:10:21.618 --> 01:10:22.917
Who would have thought?

01:10:22.917 --> 01:10:24.318
Who would have thought?

01:10:24.318 --> 01:10:26.377
OK, I'm going to quickly list off our horror fest.

01:10:26.377 --> 01:10:32.347
So we watched the 1971 See No Evil by Richard Fleischer, Mia Farrow.

01:10:32.347 --> 01:10:33.757
It's one of her early films.

01:10:33.757 --> 01:10:38.547
We watched the 2022 Speak No Evil, which is a very frustrating and upsetting film.

01:10:38.547 --> 01:10:40.818
Aaron recently just watched the 2024 version.

01:10:40.818 --> 01:10:43.478
He did not have as good of a time watching that one.

01:10:43.478 --> 01:10:45.716
It's the shittiest Home Loan sequel ever.

01:10:47.045 --> 01:10:48.626
That's saying something.

01:10:49.126 --> 01:10:55.475
We watched the 1994 Michelle's Savali is a Savali Cemetery Man.

01:10:55.475 --> 01:10:56.945
I don't know if you're familiar with that one.

01:10:56.945 --> 01:11:04.055
I don't Don't look now, which was a 1973 film by Nicholas Rio, a Rio something like that.

01:11:04.055 --> 01:11:09.025
Of course, a classic, like you said, just bonafide, you know, iconic story.

01:11:09.025 --> 01:11:11.305
1984 is a nightmare on Elm Street.

01:11:11.305 --> 01:11:13.706
And then and we're going to finish it off right before her.

01:11:13.706 --> 01:11:14.823
We're going to watch.

01:11:14.823 --> 01:11:17.354
a foreign film audition from 1999.

01:11:17.354 --> 01:11:25.680
yeah, so that's our horror fast one case you need some horror recommendations for everybody, including the ones that that Griffin mentioned.

01:11:25.680 --> 01:11:31.162
So well, gentlemen, thank you both so, so much for joining us back here on the Oblivion Bar podcast.

01:11:31.162 --> 01:11:37.407
I know it probably already goes without saying, but I feel like I have to say every time around you guys how I'm just I'm just so proud of you guys.

01:11:37.407 --> 01:11:41.069
I was going to try to a more romantic way of saying that.

01:11:41.069 --> 01:11:43.340
I feel like I just bona fide.

01:11:43.340 --> 01:11:45.210
But I'm so bonafide when I'm around you guys.

01:11:45.210 --> 01:11:46.170
I'm going to talk about you guys.

01:11:46.170 --> 01:11:47.190
That's romantic.

01:11:47.631 --> 01:11:48.140
Amateur.

01:11:48.140 --> 01:11:49.372
Are serious?

01:11:49.412 --> 01:11:50.952
You serious?

01:11:52.372 --> 01:11:59.394
It's just it's one of those things where I would have been proud of you guys regardless, but I'm just so happy that the masses are also seeing this.

01:11:59.394 --> 01:12:03.206
And Kill Your Darlings is just a tome of your guys' creative genius.

01:12:03.206 --> 01:12:04.006
I just hit my mic.

01:12:04.006 --> 01:12:04.895
I apologize.

01:12:04.895 --> 01:12:05.876
God.

01:12:05.876 --> 01:12:07.247
I'm excited to see what you guys do next.

01:12:07.247 --> 01:12:09.436
We haven't really teased anything yet.

01:12:09.436 --> 01:12:10.707
I don't know if you guys even want to.

01:12:10.707 --> 01:12:12.109
We'll give you guys a moment here.

01:12:12.109 --> 01:12:14.409
in just a second to do that if you want to.

01:12:14.409 --> 01:12:15.470
But I don't know.

01:12:15.470 --> 01:12:17.300
This is coming out during New York.

01:12:17.300 --> 01:12:19.430
There might be an announcement at New York.

01:12:19.430 --> 01:12:22.470
We don't actually know 100 percent for sure or not.

01:12:22.470 --> 01:12:23.029
Okay.

01:12:23.029 --> 01:12:24.409
Cool announcement at New York.

01:12:24.409 --> 01:12:25.920
Yeah, I think you'll know about one.

01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:27.890
We have we have several things coming next year.

01:12:27.890 --> 01:12:30.350
You're not going to be able to spit without hitting us.

01:12:30.350 --> 01:12:32.069
It is going to be insane.

01:12:32.069 --> 01:12:33.310
It is going to be insane.

01:12:33.310 --> 01:12:35.920
We're going to go from one year where it's like, here's the thing.

01:12:35.920 --> 01:12:36.470
And then.

01:12:36.470 --> 01:12:38.770
And then it's going to be like, here's a billion things.

01:12:38.770 --> 01:12:40.341
Just jumping in with both feet.

01:12:40.341 --> 01:12:40.591
Huh?

01:12:40.591 --> 01:12:40.971
Yes.

01:12:40.971 --> 01:12:45.823
Including we have already announced that we have a book with Bob Quinn that we're doing.

01:12:45.823 --> 01:12:47.574
We're doing another one with him.

01:12:47.574 --> 01:12:50.055
so the band's getting back together.

01:12:50.055 --> 01:12:50.506
Yes.

01:12:50.506 --> 01:12:52.796
So stay tuned folks.

01:12:52.796 --> 01:12:53.337
Awesome.

01:12:53.337 --> 01:12:54.967
Well, once again, thank you both so much.

01:12:54.967 --> 01:12:59.019
I'm going to pass the buck off to you guys one more time before we head out of here.

01:12:59.039 --> 01:13:00.310
Griffin, I will start with you.

01:13:00.310 --> 01:13:05.481
Is there anything that you want to plug or highlight or tease or whatever before we let you go?

01:13:06.417 --> 01:13:09.698
Listen to a really great podcast called the Oblivion Bar.

01:13:10.099 --> 01:13:12.949
The two super cool, super handsome guys.

01:13:12.949 --> 01:13:14.360
You should go check them out.

01:13:14.360 --> 01:13:15.171
Very bonafide.

01:13:15.171 --> 01:13:16.001
Give them a listen.

01:13:16.001 --> 01:13:17.721
Bonafide, yes.

01:13:18.942 --> 01:13:22.622
No, thank you so, so much for having us.

01:13:22.622 --> 01:13:23.262
That's copyrighted.

01:13:23.262 --> 01:13:27.074
I would also like to plug a podcast that I've been listening to called the Oblivion Bar.

01:13:27.074 --> 01:13:31.594
It's two guys and their tools pulling things from the ether.

01:13:31.594 --> 01:13:32.194
It's true.

01:13:32.194 --> 01:13:33.234
that that's beautiful.

01:13:33.234 --> 01:13:34.564
think that's how it's meant to be.

01:13:34.564 --> 01:13:35.996
Thank you guys so much.

01:13:35.996 --> 01:13:36.895
Really, really appreciate you.

01:13:36.895 --> 01:13:40.057
Literally, this is always like some of the best times we have doing this stuff.

01:13:40.057 --> 01:13:40.938
You guys are excellent.

01:13:40.938 --> 01:13:42.359
Really, really appreciate it.

01:13:42.359 --> 01:13:45.699
Well, I highly doubt this is the last time that you guys will be on the Oblivion Bar.

01:13:45.699 --> 01:13:50.202
We'll definitely have you back on for whether it be other things.

01:13:50.202 --> 01:13:51.807
Again, you guys are gonna be so busy next year.

01:13:51.807 --> 01:13:54.583
I would imagine we're gonna have some excuse to have you back on.

01:13:54.583 --> 01:13:56.814
But even if we don't, we can bring you back on for whatever.

01:13:56.814 --> 01:13:58.989
I feel like we could have easily just bullshitted our way.

01:13:58.989 --> 01:14:00.970
through this hour if we really wanted to.

01:14:00.970 --> 01:14:02.310
But we could.

01:14:02.310 --> 01:14:03.069
We are.

01:14:03.069 --> 01:14:04.050
I'll speak for Aaron.

01:14:04.050 --> 01:14:08.510
I don't know if you want to say anything, but I will say from both of us, we're excited to see you both at New York Comic Con.

01:14:08.510 --> 01:14:19.149
Again, we're speaking to you guys all from the past, but hopefully by the time you guys are all listening to this right now, the listeners, we have all already hung out together at some point or just said hi or taking a picture or giving a hug at some point.

01:14:19.149 --> 01:14:21.449
That's all I that's all I really need.

01:14:21.449 --> 01:14:22.390
So, Aaron.

01:14:22.390 --> 01:14:26.010
Yeah, we'll have you back on for the substance to review.

01:14:28.054 --> 01:14:33.478
No, I think, I think Ethan, you're not going to be at New York Comic Con.

01:14:33.478 --> 01:14:38.020
I unfortunately have canceled my appearance in New York Comic Con.

01:14:38.020 --> 01:14:39.601
Too big for it.

01:14:41.262 --> 01:14:45.064
I started a medical soul fucking monologue.

01:14:45.166 --> 01:14:49.998
You why he's not doing lightning shoots from Ethan's fingers.

01:14:49.998 --> 01:14:50.238
Right.

01:14:50.238 --> 01:14:53.832
If they're offering me an award for Kill Your Darlings, I'm out.

01:14:53.832 --> 01:14:56.493
Like, what do I need a comic con for?

01:14:56.493 --> 01:14:57.503
What do I need?

01:14:59.340 --> 01:15:03.143
I had something else come up, but I hope you guys have a lovely time and I'll be back next year.

01:15:03.143 --> 01:15:04.744
You'll be with us in spirit.

01:15:04.744 --> 01:15:05.114
Yeah.

01:15:05.114 --> 01:15:06.605
Totally, totally a pleasure.

01:15:06.605 --> 01:15:18.532
you know, having you guys come on again, just as Chris said, just to emulate into to echo what he said, a fantastic job, especially like a breakaway, you know, your break into the scene.

01:15:18.532 --> 01:15:24.180
I mean, you can't really do better than, a nomination for an Iser fucking a, know, that's crazy.

01:15:24.180 --> 01:15:28.286
So I mean, you could have won it, but that would be could have won.

01:15:28.586 --> 01:15:29.405
That's true.

01:15:29.405 --> 01:15:31.426
Where do you go from there?

01:15:31.426 --> 01:15:32.525
Exactly.

01:15:33.166 --> 01:15:35.145
Don't give it to us this time.

01:15:35.145 --> 01:15:35.905
Do you?

01:15:35.905 --> 01:15:38.865
They're like some guy in the back was like, these guys really deserve it.

01:15:38.865 --> 01:15:39.565
But we can't fuck.

01:15:39.565 --> 01:15:40.235
We don't want to be.

01:15:40.235 --> 01:15:41.015
They're nice guys.

01:15:41.015 --> 01:15:42.386
They're going to be hated if they win.

01:15:42.386 --> 01:15:46.786
You know, they want you to get to be welcomed to the community, loved by other creators.

01:15:46.786 --> 01:15:49.466
So they did it for you, man.

01:15:49.466 --> 01:15:50.565
You.

01:15:50.702 --> 01:15:54.342
So no, but seriously, awesome job.

01:15:54.342 --> 01:15:57.703
Looking forward to meeting you, Ethan, at some point in person.

01:15:57.703 --> 01:16:00.845
Griffin meeting you next, or shit, this coming week.

01:16:00.845 --> 01:16:05.145
So crazy how quickly it came upon us, pun intended.

01:16:05.405 --> 01:16:07.779
you know, it's just, Chris, I'll let you handle that one.

01:16:07.779 --> 01:16:08.546
Yeah.

01:16:08.546 --> 01:16:09.447
Well, thank you guys so much.

01:16:09.447 --> 01:16:10.056
We appreciate it.

01:16:10.056 --> 01:16:12.307
We will see you the next time you're here.

01:16:12.307 --> 01:16:12.787
Sweet.

01:16:12.787 --> 01:16:13.438
Thanks, guys.

01:16:13.438 --> 01:16:14.568
Thank you.

01:16:15.048 --> 01:16:15.498
All righty.

01:16:15.498 --> 01:16:17.088
There's that conversation with Griffin and Ethan.

01:16:17.088 --> 01:16:19.850
Once again, thank you both so much for joining us here.

01:16:20.362 --> 01:16:23.925
Again, just, we love this book so much everybody.

01:16:23.925 --> 01:16:26.726
It is a book that we very similar to Zawa.

01:16:26.726 --> 01:16:32.972
When we talked to Michael D'Alenos earlier this week, killer darlings is one those books that I just am so happy to champion.

01:16:32.972 --> 01:16:33.283
Aaron.

01:16:33.283 --> 01:16:39.398
It's one those books that, when I have someone who is looking for a recommendation, it's, it's one those easy recommendations.

01:16:39.398 --> 01:16:44.582
As I said earlier, it's something that I can hand them and I know for a fact, they're going to find something that they enjoy.

01:16:44.582 --> 01:16:47.284
And, I think I can speak for you here.

01:16:47.284 --> 01:16:48.814
I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

01:16:48.814 --> 01:16:50.344
I'm just excited to see what they do next.

01:16:50.344 --> 01:16:55.573
And they sort of tease it a little bit there at the end of the conversation where they say that they have a lot of things coming up in 2025.

01:16:55.573 --> 01:16:58.713
I'm very excited to see what they do next in the comic world.

01:16:58.713 --> 01:16:59.083
Absolutely.

01:16:59.083 --> 01:17:05.833
Not only just because they're just like good dudes, but also because they can obviously, you know, spin a yarn.

01:17:05.833 --> 01:17:08.054
They can tell a tale, you know?

01:17:08.054 --> 01:17:14.654
And the fact that, you know, you heard it during the interview, they're going to be working with Bob Quinn again, which means you're going to get those fantastic colors.

01:17:14.654 --> 01:17:17.483
You're going to get an amazing story, fantastic colors.

01:17:17.483 --> 01:17:20.154
It's going to be a great looking book.

01:17:20.154 --> 01:17:27.689
you know, because of their, you know, their dedication and they obviously have a real passion for the craft of comic writing.

01:17:27.689 --> 01:17:30.581
You know, I don't expect anything that's going to fall short.

01:17:30.581 --> 01:17:49.274
wouldn't, they, they're not, the one thing that I want to say about this conversation that I really didn't get to kind of touch on during the conversation was when you hear them talking about putting kind of parameters on their writing, and really like fixating on the basics and kind of the advice that other writers gave them.

01:17:49.274 --> 01:17:50.703
They really stuck to it.

01:17:50.703 --> 01:17:53.015
Like they didn't decide to go do their own thing.

01:17:53.015 --> 01:17:56.998
You know, they took what the masters have done before them and they really applied it.

01:17:56.998 --> 01:18:00.320
And I, and I love the fact that it turned out so well for them.

01:18:00.320 --> 01:18:06.484
So I think they obviously have a great friendship, a great dynamic, and I think we can expect great things from them in the future.

01:18:06.746 --> 01:18:07.265
Yeah.

01:18:07.265 --> 01:18:13.206
It's also very inspiring as someone who works in this sort of sort of the sandbox.

01:18:13.206 --> 01:18:18.898
you know, that you and I do where we will often talk to creators or we'll review movies and comics.

01:18:18.898 --> 01:18:33.011
And we sort of live in this space of comic journalism, even though I would never ever consider us to be comic journalists because we're not, we don't critique these things in sort of a, we don't, we don't critique the medium in, like, in a, I would say like a progressive way.

01:18:33.011 --> 01:18:37.403
What you and I do, I think here on the oblivion bar is more of a sort of a celebration of the medium.

01:18:37.403 --> 01:18:39.832
You know, we, we like to pick the brains.

01:18:39.832 --> 01:18:42.923
more, we approach this for much more of a, a, like a curiosity.

01:18:42.923 --> 01:18:43.243
Right.

01:18:43.243 --> 01:18:43.824
Absolutely.

01:18:43.824 --> 01:18:44.045
Yeah.

01:18:44.045 --> 01:18:45.685
We're not here to critique anything really.

01:18:45.685 --> 01:18:48.578
And at least not from like an outright standpoint.

01:18:48.578 --> 01:18:56.722
People that critique like an industry that they have not really like participated in fully like to the depth of the creators that are within it.

01:18:56.984 --> 01:18:57.944
That seems silly.

01:18:57.944 --> 01:19:01.756
Like I don't have I can't critique your your your creativity.

01:19:01.756 --> 01:19:03.509
I've never made a movie so I can't create.

01:19:03.509 --> 01:19:07.451
I mean I can critique a movie that I enjoy or don't like.

01:19:07.451 --> 01:19:12.966
But you know I'm not going to go in there be like well your angles are at the worst, you know?

01:19:12.966 --> 01:19:16.043
I think if I can build off it just a little bit, because I do want to slightly correct.

01:19:16.043 --> 01:19:17.042
We do critique here.

01:19:17.042 --> 01:19:20.725
I mean, we do movie reviews, we do series reviews, video game reviews, all the things.

01:19:20.725 --> 01:19:24.546
But I think what you're saying is like, we don't destroy anything.

01:19:24.546 --> 01:19:30.449
Like we're not here to tell you whether you should buy or not buy these things or read or not read or watch or whatever.

01:19:30.449 --> 01:19:33.371
We just kind of give you our thoughts on it because it's a fun conversation.

01:19:33.371 --> 01:19:35.372
I guess that's our way of critiquing.

01:19:35.372 --> 01:19:46.408
But my whole point in saying all this is that it's very inspiring to see both Griffin and Ethan succeed in the world of comics as writers because they started off in this play sort of in this playground.

01:19:46.408 --> 01:19:54.011
Like they started off in the podcasting world, you know, working with different, you know, Matthew Rosenberg and Donny Cates and Ryan Stegman and Brian Michael Bendis.

01:19:54.011 --> 01:19:56.752
They, they sort of run a lot of their sub stacks.

01:19:56.752 --> 01:19:58.483
think they still do that even to this day.

01:19:58.483 --> 01:20:11.394
And it's again, I mean this in the most respectful way possible, but if folks like Griffin and Ethan and sort of jump over into the world of comics, it gives a little bit of motivation for folks like you and I or anyone else.

01:20:11.394 --> 01:20:12.054
to do this.

01:20:12.054 --> 01:20:13.444
Like they, you can do this.

01:20:13.444 --> 01:20:14.604
They've shown that you can do this.

01:20:14.604 --> 01:20:19.407
If you have the wits about you and you have the creativity and the work ethic and all the things that require that.

01:20:19.407 --> 01:20:19.597
Yeah.

01:20:19.597 --> 01:20:20.608
The dedication man.

01:20:20.608 --> 01:20:28.282
Cause yeah, when they talk about the stress and the talk about like, you know, sitting in like a hotel room and kind of like figuring things out and like cutting stuff.

01:20:28.282 --> 01:20:29.372
And like, just can't imagine.

01:20:29.372 --> 01:20:31.542
can't imagine what that would feel like.

01:20:31.622 --> 01:20:32.323
Yeah.

01:20:32.323 --> 01:20:35.435
Well that'll do it for day four of New York Comic-Con interview.

01:20:35.435 --> 01:20:38.475
And we will.

01:20:38.475 --> 01:20:42.448
Be back tomorrow for our final day, Aaron want WAMP day five.

01:20:42.448 --> 01:20:43.757
It's not, it's not sad though.

01:20:43.757 --> 01:20:50.511
It's fun because we're going to be joined by Sean van Gorman and Joey Esposito talking about all things pedestrian.

01:20:50.511 --> 01:20:53.692
And Aaron, this is a conversation that you had by yourself.

01:20:54.332 --> 01:20:55.953
I am super excited for everybody here.

01:20:55.953 --> 01:21:05.837
This one I've been, I've been trying to get Joey and Sean on the show, trying to get them, you know, especially during, after our hiatus, get them nailed down to a, to a time.

01:21:05.837 --> 01:21:10.707
and, you know, just two incredible creators, two incredible guys.

01:21:10.707 --> 01:21:17.069
And I'm excited for people to hear all about the pedestrian in, out and around, know?

01:21:17.069 --> 01:21:17.550
Yeah.

01:21:17.550 --> 01:21:22.082
I mean, I've been editing that episode the last couple of days and it is a good conversation, everybody.

01:21:22.082 --> 01:21:23.912
So make sure you guys stick around for that tomorrow.

01:21:23.912 --> 01:21:27.234
That'll be day five of our interview.

01:21:28.873 --> 01:21:30.085
But that'll do it for day four.

01:21:30.085 --> 01:21:30.895
That'll do it for episode 169.

01:21:30.895 --> 01:21:33.496
Aaron, please take us out of here.

01:21:33.496 --> 01:21:34.527
All right.

01:21:34.527 --> 01:21:37.869
Subscribe to our podcast, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube.

01:21:37.869 --> 01:21:41.970
Audible, iHeartRadio, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, that's where we are.

01:21:41.970 --> 01:21:57.270
Thank you to our patrons, Alex, Alice, Aaron, Bodder, Brad, Chris S, Chris Y, Chris D, Danny, David, Elliot, George, Gianni, Greg, Haley, Hamsticks, Jake H, Jeremy, Kenny, Kyle, Lozi, Mac, Miles, Mike, Olivia, Robert, Ryan, Travis, Zach, and Brad and Lisa.

01:21:57.270 --> 01:21:57.949
Thank you.

01:21:57.949 --> 01:22:07.703
If you don't support the show without spending any money, a follow on your preferred podcasting platform, and a five star rating, and or review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify helps the show.

01:22:07.805 --> 01:22:17.572
don't follow us on social media, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Blue Sky and threats at oblivion bar pod brand new official merch for the show can be found on our website.

01:22:17.572 --> 01:22:19.552
Oblivion bar podcast dot com.

01:22:19.552 --> 01:22:20.073
Thank you.

01:22:20.073 --> 01:22:23.114
KXD studios for all of our oblivion bar art.

01:22:23.114 --> 01:22:26.346
He's at KXD graphics on Instagram.

01:22:26.346 --> 01:22:26.717
Thank you.

01:22:26.717 --> 01:22:28.618
Dream Kid for all of our musical themes.

01:22:28.618 --> 01:22:30.399
Thank you, DJ Skypack for our great theme.

01:22:30.399 --> 01:22:34.506
And last but not least, do not forget to tip your bartenders your.

01:22:34.506 --> 01:22:47.090
servers, your waitress, your waiter, your stewardess, your attendant, your taxicab driver, your fake tax cab driver, 20 % or more, or you're an ass.

01:22:47.189 --> 01:22:52.211
Have you heard that both political parties are trying to take away taxing for tips?

01:22:52.211 --> 01:22:54.952
That's how they're both sort of running on this idea.

01:22:55.091 --> 01:22:55.931
Have you heard this?

01:22:55.931 --> 01:22:57.502
I haven't, but okay.

01:22:57.502 --> 01:23:00.293
It's I mean, it shouldn't be taxed.

01:23:00.293 --> 01:23:01.323
I mean, I agree.

01:23:01.323 --> 01:23:05.716
But I think that anytime that you have both sides agreeing on something, that means it's not going to happen.

01:23:06.337 --> 01:23:07.636
That's the way I see it, guess.

01:23:07.636 --> 01:23:09.518
But anyway, we're not going to get political here on the show.

01:23:09.518 --> 01:23:12.274
I just think it was funny that they've been pushing that.

01:23:12.274 --> 01:23:14.420
20 % or more, everybody, make sure you guys do that.

01:23:14.420 --> 01:23:16.521
And thank you so much for listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

01:23:16.521 --> 01:23:20.703
Thank you for listening to Interview-a-thon slash Guess Fast.

01:23:20.703 --> 01:23:25.025
And we will see you tomorrow for our final day for day five of New York Comic Con.

01:23:25.025 --> 01:23:26.207
Thank you, everybody.