SERIES REVIEW: X-Men ‘97 w/ Badr Milligan (The Short Box) Part One

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Hey everyone, this is Jennifer Hale, and you're listening to the number one show on the Citadel, the Oblivion Bar podcast. I should go.

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Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles.

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Hello everyone, welcome to episode 156 of the Oblivion Bar podcast. I am your time traveling techno -organic stricken soldier with some serious daddy issues, Chris Hacker. And joining me this week is the man who is best at what he does, but what he does ain't too nice. My co -host and BFF, Aaron Knowles. I'm coming for blood, bub. Welcome everybody back to the - Or snicked. I think it's snicked. Snicked? Anyway. Welcome everybody back to the Oblivion Bar podcast for episode 156. We are talking about the entirety of X -Men 97.

Very, very excited to talk about this. Aaron, we needed to bring in some help, though. This week, we had to bring. Yeah, this is a heavy lift. The big guns, as they say, the big, you know, of course, I'm an expert in the techno organic realm. We need one of those giant futuristic guns. If you are the Professor X of podcasts, this man is the Magnus Magneto of podcast. There's a love here, though, I think across. I'm just going to say, Modern Milligan is here joining us here live on the Oblivion Bar podcast.

And while I love that comparison. thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys. Please. we didn't get that. This is why I love having a bottle on the show and bought. I'm going to pass the baton off to hear to you here in just a moment. But we think very similarly in terms of hosting the show. So welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast for apparently the first time. Yo, Oblivion Bar podcast peeps. What up? Yeah, this is this is a little crazy that this is the first time I've been on.

Your show because chris you basically have like a couch in the short box, you know You crash on the short box all the time. So black leather couch and it's peeling too. Yeah casting couch. It's a big honor to to be here for this episode too, you know I was like, you know what? I knew that you guys were just waiting for the right episode for a special one and what better episode to jump on then to talk about how badass x -men 97 was 100 and I think

Across the board, all of us just to kind of say off the top. Well, actually, I mean, I was going to say we all enjoyed it, but Aaron for a while, but I don't know if you know this. I don't know if you've listened to the show when Aaron and I've talked about it, but Aaron was kind of sour on X -Men 97 for the first. What was it? Couple episodes, right? No, just the first episode. I hadn't watched anything after the first episode and I was waiting for this episode.

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to for you to bring this up because I knew at some point you're going to bring up the fact that it was like, doesn't like X -Men 97. That's that's my Chris is white man voice. there it does like. Well, actually, actually, Steve's not Eric. Yeah. Yeah. I'll I'll save my my point of view on this. But yeah, the first episode was not into it. Aaron, I won't lie. I had not to spoil anything, but I was a little timid.

the first two and I'll explain what turned me, you know, what, you know, converted me to a full on fan. But I, there was a little hesitance on my part too, watching those first two episodes. Actually I'll say three, but. Yeah, I was going to say from the, from the beginning, I feel like obviously, again, I'll save my, my, I guess, reaction to the rest of the series for later on, but to the first one, I feel like there might've had, there might've in their brains when they were writing it, when they were developing it said, we need a transitional.

episode. We need to go from this like schticky, schlocky 90s, late 90s show, campy, and have a transition point. And that needs to be the first one, which is a brave, bold move, but executed nicely. Sure. Agreed. Agreed. And really quick, can we play a drinking game that every single time one of us says something to the effect of, I don't want to spoil it or I'll save this for later. Cause I feel like the few times I've like,

You know, I don't know. I think that is a shtick that we all do as podcasters where we try to get ahead of ourselves, but kind of like, you know, be tame about it anyways. Yeah, we always like we preemptively warn the listener, even though they're about to listen to our actual real spoiler. So, yeah, we will get in that here in just a moment. We got some news and notes, other housekeeping things to take care of. But before we continue on, please, will you tell listeners just in case for some reason they've been living under a rock for the last four years since the Oblivion Bar has been around? Tell the people about the short box.

Let me go ahead and let me go into clean my knives and prepare. shit Wow, I had a random Wolverine quote and my sound pad. All right So this entire episode it'll be a battle between me and Chris trying to see who will one -up each other with our sound boards Chris has got it made though. I've already heard it. that's a good one. Okay,

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Alright, this is bullshit. This is bullshit. I'm the only one who is not allowed to have a soundboard. All right, you know what? No more Mandalorian whistles for mine. You got a mouth so good. I'm out. All right. What am I the black guy from fucking Police Academy? What the fuck? That's some racist bullshit. I didn't say all that. You put that out there. But I mean, you know, look, okay. Okay. Serious time. The short box podcast.

It is one of the longest running comic book podcasts out there. If you are a fan, like if you're a fan of the oblivion bar podcast and you are, you know, fiending for more comic book content, go and check out the short box podcast. I've been doing it for a long time. I put a lot of love, a lot of time, a lot of attention to making it, the great comic book show that, that it is, you know, it's made for comic book fans for aspiring, you know, new readers, long time readers by.

you know, long time readers and fans of the culture. I've, you know, I've got hundreds of interviews. If you have a favorite artist, a favorite writer, favorite creator, more than likely I've got an interview or an episode about them. So check that out. I take my interviews very seriously. I think I put out some good interviews out there and the non interviews are just as fun as, which you guys get into as well. So just a different flavor. I think, you know, Chris kind of said it. I, when I first met Chris and met Aaron, I was like, wow,

These guys are the mirror version of myself and some of my co -hosts as well. So it's a big honor to be here. But yeah, short box podcast. Check it out if you want more comic book content. Yeah. And I will say kind of speaking on the interview aspect of it all for a long time. And even now, when I listen to your interviews, you are a big influence for me in terms of how I like to approach these conversations. I mean, thank you. And you know, it just so happens that we're all friends as well. So it's all very, it's all, it's all kindred spirits over here. It's all.

It's a kumbaya. I'll say this much that I've been doing, I've been podcasting in the short box specifically, specifically since 2012. And it wasn't until, I don't know, 2021 that I had really got involved with the comic book podcast community. And Chris was one of the first people that I really connected with and formed a friendship and getting to talk to him. I'm like, this guy gets it. He knows exactly.

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what I go through, what I, you know, aspire to do with the show. And I'm looking at his show notes right now. And I used to think that my show notes were detailed. I thought that I was organized until I met Chris and you know what, me and Chris and like folks like Greg and you know, people like David Harper is really motivated me. I feel like in these last two, three years, I've really stepped up the game in terms of like the, you know, the episodes I put out in interviews. So big honor Chris. And I send that to you and Aaron at the same time.

While we're kind of on the topic, before we get into Patreon, Aaron, we need to talk about Chicago just a little bit, right? We had a panel here with Bodder. It was a crossover live event with the aforementioned Greg Lichthag. Our second panel. Our second panel. Our second panel. Absolutely. We did one in San, our New York last year. I almost said San Diego. We need to do one in San Diego, but we had one here at C2E2 just last month and it was incredible. We, you know, got to hang out with everybody finally for once, you know, get together, talk about comics, all the things. And,

Obviously got to drink that night later that night. Got to get everyone a fireball shot. And generally when I get a fireball shot for Aaron, he'll stay out all night. But Aaron, you made the decision to leave kind of early that night. Responsible. Yeah, it was a it was a big weekend for me as far as the amount of things that I wanted to get done. It's here's the crazy thing. When I did work with CSA, I managed to get a ton of stuff done, but that's mainly because I had to be at the convention all day.

So I took advantage of the moments where I was going to be there all day, where when you're at a convention and not working, you're kind of like, you want to see everything, but at the same time, you don't have the freedom to kind of like move in and out and kind of like weave and the CSA pass is like a secret. It's like higher than press. Like you get behind. Yeah. But what's great about it is that already, like I have already made some really good acquaintances and friends and like,

Patriots within this community to where if I see somebody if I know somebody it's like hey, man There's like a ton of people they do not know my name. I do not know their name, but I made an impression and I will help out and that's one thing Chris, you know me I'm a guy who can get a signature from and through the roof everybody he will judge I rolled a nat one on looks and I rolled it just a natural like 20 like perfect one Aaron passes go he collects a thousand dollars. He doesn't yeah. Yeah

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Yeah, that is one thing when I first met Aaron because I mean you I'd been talking to Chris all those years But when I met Aaron I was like, okay. Yeah, you are the droop to Chris charismatic outgoing You can't control these motherfuckers. Yeah, but they are the extra specials, you know spice You know alluding to one of our time. You can call me the special sauce, baby The extra sauce and spice because we're gonna be talking about something related to the show if you like sushi on the spicy mayo if you like burgers on the secret sauce we always say

The oblivion bar has Aaron's looks and my looks and my personality. That's that's the way I like to describe the oblivion bar podcast. So I actually know that reverse that reverse. Just kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Because Chris looks good. I look like a bag of smashed assholes. Whatever. All right. When Chris when Chris showed me the photo of him and Chris Evans at New York Comic Con for his photo shoot, I think my first instinct was who the fuck is that guy next to you?

Alrighty, Aaron, let's let's talk about Patreon really quick. Tell the people how they can support the show. Patreon, man. That's how you support the show. Patreon .com forward slash oblivion bar pod for your support. You get a bunch of free stuff. We love giving away free stuff here on the bar. But it's, you know, you get free stuff for being a Patreon member. But still, the grid's not free. But you get it. The grid is our extra weekly episode each week. It's our.

Oblivion Bar After Dark, unformatted, unfiltered, unfettered. It's just nasty fun. Stream of consciousness. Yes. It's just, it's everything that we love to talk about. You get an early access to each episode, these mainstream episodes. You get early access to our transcripts, which gives you an opportunity to study up on what we're about to talk about. Gives you access to know what we're going to be talking about so you can keep along with the conversation and a special shout out at the end of each episode as well. That's Oblivion Bar episode.

which you'll hear me do at the end of this one. It's just the best way to support our show. It's the best way to make this show better because everything we get from you guys goes right back into the show. We keep nothing for ourselves because we want to make this the best damn show it can be on the internet. Yes. The Patreon and podcast, even when we get money, it goes right back to it and never touches our fight. We're literally just paying to keep doing this. That's all of this is. But already, well, that'll do it for that. Let's go and get into our news and notes.

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and notes.

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I'm waiting for Eddie Murphy to show up. Brought to you by cocaine. Brought to you by Jolt Cola. Jolt Cola and cocaine. And 80s cop movies. That's right. Our News and Notes. That was good. See look at you. He'll like surprise you with a really good impression every once in a while. Put in that mouth. That mouth be doing. What that mouth do?

All right. Our news and notes segment sponsored by Omnibus back by some of the top publishers in the medium. Omnibus hosts an extensive back catalog from Image Comics, Boom Studios, Dark Horse, IDW Publishing, Ahoy Comics, Massive Publishing, Titan, Volt and many more. And there's breaking news, everybody. Omnibus is officially on Android. Download the Omnibus app on your app store or on the Google Play Store or read it at work on your desktop like I do. And make sure make sure you follow them over on their socials at the Omnibus app. Omnibus by fans.

for fans. Aaron says it's bitching. It's bitching is our side slogan. I thought for a minute you actually sneezed. I was like, wow, this is a very interesting sneeze. But you know what? For Omnibus, I definitely co -signed it. It is a bitching app. To quote Aaron. Yeah. And I'm so happy to see them on Android, man. They're over here conquering the world one app at a time. All right. Our first piece of news we have.

What do you love every time after page after our last patron episode every time you say a hundred percent I think about what we were joking about episode. Yeah, 110 percent your 10 % now. Let's go to Bob up. Thank you, Jerry and Dan Elliott. You must be one very proud young man this evening. Simply put, that was a staggeringly dramatic display of athletic ability. Well, you know, you got there and you give 110 percent and you want to play good and you know, you hope you play good. I think we play pretty good tonight. Have you seen that body? Have you seen bedazzled with?

Elizabeth is it Hurley? my god, yes. Elizabeth Hurley and Brendan Fraser. Yeah. All right. Our first piece of news we have. Marvel has reportedly greenlit Hawkeye season two. The news comes from an anonymous inside scooper, My Time to Shine H, saying Clint's brother Barney will play a major role and the season will be inspired by the raid with Kate and Clint stuck, basically stuck in one location. Jeremy Renner and Haley Steinfeld will both return to reprise the role as Clint Barton and Kate Bishop. Renner has made it clear that he wants to return to play Hawkeye again, even after that.

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life -threatening snowplow incident. Are you guys familiar with that? Did you hear about that? Hell yeah. Yeah. I remember reporting on it for an episode of, of the short box. And how, why, you know what I'm saying? Like that one genuinely hurt, you know, I was like, yo, I hope he's okay. You know, like really good, like really giving up thoughts and prayers. Yeah. I mean, he was trying to help somebody too. He was off the side of road for everybody who doesn't know listening. He was all, he stopped his, his snowplow on the side of the road and then somebody, I think somebody hit him and he basically got stuck underneath the snow while also being injured. That shit looked like a tank too. It was a

Insane, but apparently he's made a full recovery. I've seen him out on like the red carpet in such sense So Steinfeld actually waited and said that she has been itching to get back to the role as Kate Bishop I'm certainly chopping at the bit. It's been a minute It's always so funny because I I feel like a few months go by and I feel like I've been doing nothing You know what? I mean, it's been it's been so long since when was the last time we saw Kate Bishop was it? was it a teaser and yeah at the end of the Marvels? That's right. Yeah, she showed up at the end of the Marvels wasn't really an end -credit scene It was just like I was there for pizza dog

That's right. What are you guys's temperature check on this? Are you excited about Hawkeye season two? Did you really enjoy the first season, Aaron? We covered it here on the show. I remember us both kind of enjoying it, but not being kind of kind of above average. Maybe I thought it was good. I am excited for it because this is that is out of all the things that kind of went from a lukewarm kind of status as far as the MCU. That was one of the shows that actually did very well on the excitement level. I did enjoy the show and.

Honestly, I'm looking forward to it because that was one of the coolest things that I still remember was not only like the kingpin being in it, but also the different arrows that we got to see. yeah. Throughout the show. And that was really exciting. That was a fun kind of tie in for like, I think they even had like an in bigening or enlarging using Ant -Man's Pym technology. So again, I'm excited for it. Yeah. To be honest with you, it's one of probably one of my favorite MCU TV series out there. And,

I think it's one of those shows that probably hits better during Christmas because it kind of feels like a Christmas. It feels like a very long Christmas movie. And I think it got a little convoluted. I think it took a while to find its footing because they were also trying to work in Echo. I think, you know, it suffered from, I would say Marvel, but I think Disney as a whole kind of has this problem where they try to shoehorn in, you know, a character or someone that they know will, you know.

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is going to get their own series. So they're trying to set them up. And I think sometimes that takes the attention away from the main characters or the main plot. So I think it's suffered a little bit of that, but the chemistry between Jeremy Renner and Haley Sanfield like was excellent, man. The story was great. And to Aaron's point, it was just a lot of fun to see them kind of embrace, you know, embrace knowing that Hawkeye is your everyday kind of guy. He's not super powered. Like you saw him get beat up, you know, he just had terrible luck.

but it didn't stop them from being like badass at times. And it really did feel faithful to that, was it Matt Fraction? Matt Fraction and David Aja, Hawkeye series that they were lifting from. So I am extremely excited to see them again on screen together. And Chris, I'm looking at your show notes and it says something here that it's gonna be inspired by the raid, which insanely piques my interest. Cause it's saying that Kate and Clint are gonna be stuck in one location. And I'm assuming having to fight their way out. So that'll be interesting to see if they step up.

like the action and the choreography, because the first one was so good. Yeah. In terms of that. Is it just me? But I want to kind of gauge your guys' opinion on this, because I like the MCU when they kind of stick specific characters, like levels of characters in specific spaces, as far as media. And I say that meaning like Agents of S .H .I .E .L .D., for instance. It's kind of a lower level organization. It didn't necessarily ever need to be on a big screen.

You know, it fit perfectly as a television series. Hawkeye, perfectly as a television series. But then you get like, not secret, was it Secret Invasion? Yeah. Yeah. So you have like Secret Invasion, which should have been like a bigger level, not a show, in my opinion. It should have been something that was escalated to the screen, the big screen. And that's one thing that I like about the, like Hawkeye and even She -Hulk, those are...

perfect for the television series level. And I want to see more of that because it's less impactive on the entire universe, but still has its place. Yeah, like the stakes are the right amount. It's not galactic, spanning, earth -shattering, end -of -world stakes. It feels like a nice medium where it just has room to breathe. You're not thinking about how this ties into the larger...

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grand scheme of things, why isn't so -and -so here, you know, all that. It's just fun, you know, like you can kind of give to, you know, I think anyone could just jump in here and watch. I think, you know, at this point, you've got so much history of the MCU that can be maybe a little intimidating to new folks, but I feel like Hawkeye, you know, is one show that you could be like, hey, you could just jump in here and have a good time. You know, like I said about the whole Christmas movie aspect, it's got like that kind of, you know, family aspect and the emotions there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Lost in New York. Yeah. What I find so funny is that Jamie Renner has stuck around for as long as he has. I mean, he first remembered Thor, which was the second, third, third, third, fourth, fourth MCU film, because it goes Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, then Thor, I think is how that goes. Jamie Renner shows up in that, obviously, as he's there whenever Thor is trying to infiltrate the shield. Exactly. He's like, I'm here. Hocks up at his nest. And the fact that he's stuck around this long through everything, you know, we've lost so many different characters. It's just.

So funny that he's still here. And you know, man, and I say this with full respect, like he's getting old, you know, like Tom Hiddleston, you know, Robert Downey Jr. You know, you see them now and you're like, man, these guys, like we've gotten to watch them age and a lot of them, I'll say have aged pretty gracefully. And Jeremy Renner looks like someone that...

that enjoys doing this role. I don't foresee Jeremy Renner years later looking back and like, my God, I can't believe I did a superhero movie and tainting it like in that way. Like so many other kind of actors have kind of talked about their previous superhero roles. He looks like someone that genuinely enjoys playing this character, embodying the character. And I think he's perfect for it. And I think just his likeability adds to the overall likeability of Hawkeye on screen.

I think about when you say that he's getting older, because I just think that back to the first scene with Ronan in Endgame, and he turns around, he just looks so disheveled and old. And that haircut is not doing him any favors. What are you doing? It still haunts me. I'm surprised that that Hawkeye Ronan suit didn't have Ed Hardy patched into the side of it. And he had flip -flops on or something. I don't know. I'm going to say one last thing about this Hawkeye series. This Hawkeye series is what made me go back. I mean, not really go back. It's just...

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MCU movies are always on TV, whether it be FX or sci -fi channel. After watching Hawkeye, anytime those older MCU movies would come up, I just found a new appreciation for Hawkeye. Like when you go back, he's got some killer scenes. He's got some great one -liners. The one that immediately comes to mind is in Age of Ultron, where he's giving Scarlet Witch that pep talk. We're flying. Hey, hey, you okay? This is all our fault. Hey, look at me. It's your fault. It's everyone's fault. Who cares?

Are you up for this? Are you? Look, I just need to know, because the city is flying. Okay, look, the city is flying. We're fighting an army of robots. And I have a bow and arrow. None of this makes sense. He's a character that has aged and just gotten better with time. Yeah. I think it was the meme that was going around at that time when it was like, when you go out there, you're an Avenger. And then it was like, Spider -Man just runs outside.

Let's get into our next piece of news. We got our first teaser trailer and I'm excited about this, Chris. I know you're excited. I'm going to ask you, but Max's Dune prophecy, the series. So again, 10 ,000 years before Paul Atreides, it's loosely based on elements of Frank Herbert's original Dune book series and Sisterhood of Dune by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson. So the series is going to follow a set of Harkonnen sisters, Valya Harkonnen portrayed by Emily Watson.

and Tula Harkonnen portrayed by Olivia Williams respectively as they combat forces that threaten the future of humankind established the fable secret known as the Bene Gesserit. The series is written by Alison Schopker who did Lost, Alias, Fringe, Altered Carbon. So I know I'm going to love it because I love every single one of those who is also the show runner. And then John Spates who co -wrote the scripts of the Dune movie. He's also working on the series. And then John, excuse me, Johann Renck who wrote Chernobyl.

Will direct it. I think he was the executive producer of Chernobyl. Yeah. So as a producer will direct the premiere episode and executive produce. Now I looked before the show, I watched the trailer again and I realized why everything felt so cool yet familiar. This show looks exactly like Dune and Game of Thrones had a baby. Yeah, that's a good connection. Yep. Yeah, it looks exactly like that. And I'm excited because there's only one thing that can make.

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those Dune movies better, and that's boobies. And dragons. Boobies and dragons. And dragons. Remaining the boobs. If you watch Game of Thrones, you know that there's like a ton of boobs and incest, but let's hope there's less incest in Dune and more boobs. I can just see Aaron now.

when he was watching the first Dune movie, like, come on ladies, like, talking about the Fremen ladies, come on ladies, let them out, let's get them girls some tans, some sun. We're so far in the future and we're still wearing bra, what's going on here? Come on, yeah, yeah. Harsh desert sand weather be damned. Let the ta -tas free. Those still suits must have some bitch in underwire. Aaron is a hoot, man. So, Votter, you are currently, and I know this about you because we talk about it, you are currently reading your way through the Dune books.

What are your thoughts on this series on this trailer? Are you excited about it? Dude off the rip. so yeah, okay It's some quick backstory. I I loved the first dune movie I really really really really liked the second dune movie and the second dune movie was the one that pushed me over the edge To finally read the first book. I am a hundred pages away from finishing that first one It has consumed so much of my it has consumed all my free time i'm surprised I still have time to do a podcast read comics and then do all this stuff, but I

I've been saying since the first Dune movie that the Bene Gesserit just won me over. Like they are my favorite. Maybe, yeah, definitely my favorite aspect of Dune. The secrecy, the fact like it is all like, it is all women sect, you know, they're, they're trying to save mankind, but you know, they've got to play kind of like God and, and chess behind the scenes. Like all of those elements, like just to me make for a really fascinating aspect. And.

Making my way through the book. It's only kind of solidified like man There's so much cool stuff to you know, get into the benedicester it I know that you know, I'm thinking about am I gonna go all the way and read, you know The next book and the books after that I know that they're they came out with like a benedicester it focus book as well So I'm kind of on the fence, but I won't lie I had I kind of forgot that this series was coming out I remember when the announcement came out and I was excited, you know, I'm like, my god a whole show about the benedicester it's setting me up watch the trailer today and

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Yeah, I think Aaron kind of nailed it. It's going to be, it's going to be awesome. And I didn't know that these names were attached and I'm reading, you know, like, you know, this person that worked on loss alias fringe and altered carbon. I'm like, okay, that is the vibe I got where it's very serious stoic, you know, kind of muted colors. And the only thing I can hope for, which I think, you know, as I'm reading the book and thinking about like Dune too, I think there was a missed opportunity to get really kind of.

metaphysical kind of psychedelic with it. So I really do hope that they kind of go all out with the visuals and some of these kind of ethereal aspects when it comes to the benedictorate because they are, you know, like they're badasses and they have the ability to control every, not only every fiber of their muscles, but all of their nervous systems. And, you know, they've got these really secrecy, these secret rituals and the plotting they do like.

I'm all in for it and I hope they really deliver it. They got these cool voices. They have the voice and like, and these boxes that'll fuck you up, you know. And then also it's like the Bitty Jesra are very interesting because while they have the, you know, the power to control people with the voice and other sort of different powers that I'm sure we'll explore during this series. What I find most interesting about them is that they have been pulling the strings of this entire Galactic Federation for

as long as 10 ,000 years in the past, right? Like that's what this whole series is about. It's kind of the beginning of this and how they have essentially been setting up the arrival of the Muad'Dib since around this timeframe. It is so crazy impressive that the level of discipline they have, not only to control like all of their body functions, but also like the mission, how dedicated they are. And I was kind of funny and maybe true that leave it to women to be like,

We gotta come in and clean this shit up. These fucking idiots are going to destroy the world. We gotta go and pull the strings behind in the back. So yeah, I'm here for it, man. Before we move on, I just wanna throw out there that if you change around the letters in Dune, you spell nude. man, of course. You managed to tie it back in.

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The booze perfectly. If you rearrange the word dune, it actually spells big boobs. I don't know how, but it does. Tickle. Space titties. You know, like that's knowledge that only the water life ritual could get you. Apparently, Aaron has taken a lot of spice and water. You can only get that from a dead worm. Apparently. So this takes and we just spoke on it a moment ago, but the Sisterhood of Dune written by Brian Herber, I'm assuming is the son of Frank.

So I haven't read this, but just from looking at a quick synopsis, it says that it sort of centers around the Carino family, which is I want the mod deep dead. Bring bring me his head if you don't Christopher. That's Christopher Locken. So yeah, that's the Kareena. We got so much hate online for this. Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty good. I think it's a pretty good impression. I don't care anybody. But anyway, so yeah, I'm excited about that as well. But.

Let's get into our last bit of news here. We have Nicolas Cage officially cast in the Spider -Man Noir live action Amazon Prime series. So Vernon Davis, head of television for Amazon MGM studios, said in a statement, expanding the Marvel universe with Noir, which is apparently the name of the series, is a uniquely special opportunity that we are honored to bring this series to our global prime video customers. Expanding the Marvel universe implies, I think you guys tell me if you're reading this incorrect or if I'm reading this incorrectly, read it differently. I think that's.

so broad that they're trying to imply that this takes place in the MCU. Is that track or am I reading into that too much? wow. This will be a live action. I thought this was a cartoon for a minute. Well, that is very interesting now. Again, this is just like a boilerplate kind of like broad, you know, statement out there to the press. But anyway, they go on to say the extremely talented Nicholas Cage is an ideal choice for the new superhero and the accomplished producing team of Phil Lord, Christopher Miller, Amy Pascal and the incredible team over at Sony as a dedicated.

dedicated to expanding this franchise in the most authentic way. I agree on two thirds of that statement there. Obviously, Christopher, Christopher Miller and Phil Lord, heads of the end of the spider verse corner. Great. Like they are absolutely killing it with their corner. Amy Pascal, on the other hand, yes, while she has been a producer on all the Spider -Man films, I feel like her, she's also been a part of a bunch of stinkers as well. Like she's not, she's not batting a thousand. So, and she's kind of.

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weaseled her way into this Spider -Man corner at Sony. And then that kind of skyrocketed to her into this ebb and flow mountain range of successes and faults, which of course that goes along with being a creative, but I think more times than not, the successes have far less, and I'm speaking completely out of conjecture and someone who has absolutely no idea, she could be an incredible producer. But my read on it is that a lot of times it's the creatives that are in charge that make these movies good because there's no through line with her work.

It's all either like she's a producer on Madam Web too. You know what I mean? Like she's done some bad, bad stuff. So that's kind of my thought. Anyway, before we go on initial thoughts on this live action Noir series, bother with your thoughts. I guess I'm still kind of stuck up on this is going to be a live action. That's what you said last time. I guess why the departure from the animated or, you know, staying in line with.

you know, across the spider or into the spider verse movies. I wonder why the, the departure, you expect to considering how successful those were. I wonder if it's because Amazon has infinite money, maybe, and they're just like, what will get us more money having Nicholas cage on screen or him just voicing someone. And I think they went Nicholas cage will bring in more money with, with his actual face. Yeah. And, and when I hear that, that to me is always kind of like a recipe for disaster. Cause it's like, why move away from something that's already working.

Because you know now you're introduced. I mean, you know, and maybe no one cares but you know, there is the introduction of like that confusion like wait So he's so he's the voice of the cartoon character and the main, you know this live -action. But anyway, that's a very minutia Critique there. Look, I I thought Nicolas Cage, you know, he's he killed it as spider -man noir I can no longer see anyone else kind of playing him. So it makes sense. I think the live -action part will be interesting

because there's going to be a lot of, I guess it depends on how much effects. Interestingly enough, earlier today, I had seen a quote from, I think it was the director of the last Spider -Man movies or the producer, but he was saying like, look, there's a reason why we incorporate CGI into Spider -Man web slinging. It's just that the practical effects don't look that good. yeah, it was John Watts, the director. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, John Watts. So I guess like that comes to my, the forefront of my mind reading this is like, okay, is this going to look,

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You know, there's just so much freedom and things you could do with animation. We've already seen it done and it's at a Spider -verse. The colors, the action, you really get a sense of this feeling like a Spider -Man movie. But maybe this will be a pleasant surprise. It sounds like, I think Nicholas Cage mentioned, hey, this is my chance to honor some of my idols and those noir classic actors and...

Yeah, I guess I don't know enough yet. I think I'll reserve judgment until I see like a teaser trailer. Sometimes I let matches burn down to my fingers. It's like just to feel something, anything. If they maintain that level of comedy, then I'll take all this back because I would love to see Nicolas Cage deliver these lines in person. I am all in. Ever since I saw the first Spider -Man across the Spider -Verse.

I was sold. I was fucking sold on it. So I, I, I'm, I'm in for it. I won't even go too far into it. I'm just saying I have already plans to cosplay Spider -Man to war. I'm in. I feel like this is just going to be Tokyo Joe, but with the Spider -Man mask on, like it's literally just going to be a classic pulp crime thriller. Like I could see it be like very spirit. Very like, like Sin City, you know, that kind of like over -dramatized black and white.

Sort of overacting. I think it will be live action, but I think it's gonna be very like the Sin City look and colors and feel. Where it's gonna be very over, hyper realized, over saturated. I think it's gonna be very cool. I think you guys are gonna be pleasantly surprised. Yeah, that'd be cool. And I had no idea that Nicolas Cage prior to this has not had a regular TV role. The article says this role will mark the first regular television role of Cage's career. And...

not to shamelessly plug the short box, but I think that's what all podcasters do. I remember us having an episode where we talked about Nicolas Cage was was missing from the across the Spider -Verse. I think when they announced who was in the movie, Nicolas Cage was missing. And we had a joke and a prediction like I bet she's holding out until, you know, Sony gets the money right to bring him back. I think like he knew like

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look, people love me in the first one. You know, like, hell, Aaron just quoted a line from him. We were, we had to like kind of thought like, I bet you, you know, he's, he's waiting for the right bag. And I wouldn't be surprised. You know, we said it back then. We wouldn't be surprised if he got a live action. And it's really fucking funny to see that that kind of came true. Short box predicted it. You heard it first on the short box. So the series being developed by the Pinercher writer and producer, Steve Lightfoot as co -showrunner and being joined by Owen Orzel.

who is the writer on the project and will serve alongside Lightfoot as co -showrunner, as I just said. Harry Bradbeer will executive produce and direct two episodes. Here's a little background on Spider -Man Noir in case you're not familiar. So Spider -Man Noir first appeared in the comics in Spider -Man Noir number one in February of 2009. On Earth 90214, while investigating a smuggling ring, Peter Parker is bitten by what seems to be a highly venomous spider housed inside of a spider god idol. I don't know what that means, but it's like a like a little statue.

okay. So like a Maltese Falcon kind of thing, essentially. Gotcha. Falling unconscious, Parker has a vision of the spider god promising him power. He then awakens inside a cocoon and emerges from it now possessing super human abilities, similar to a spider as feared as a fear vigilante. The Spider -Man Parker wages a one man war against the criminal under ward in the in a Great Depression era, New York City. So very exciting. I think everybody here across, you know, everybody in this recording is very excited for this. Nicholas Cage and anything.

Sign me up. Come on. And anything Spider -Man? Yes. Anything Nicolas Cage? Yes. Put him together. What do you got? And it's like, look, you already know Nicolas Cage is going to show out, but you're giving him a reason. You know, like, you know, people love his role, you know, his role as this character. I think he's going to deliver big time. All right, everybody, that'll do it for our News and Notes. Thank you again, Omnibus for sponsoring our segment there. Let's go ahead and get into our series review of X -Men 97. Before we do that, we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back.

Hey everybody, our sponsor for today's episode is G Fuel, the official energy drink of eSports. Whether you're a casual gamer, a content creator, an everyday Joe, or an eSports pro, G Fuel's sugar -free antioxidant and vitamin -fortified focus -enhancing and high -performance energy products will give you the edge you need to fuel your grind. No sugar, no gluten, no crash, just natural, clean vitamin energy that's available in over 40 lip -smacking flavors.

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The Oblivion Bar: A Nerd-Culture Podcast (38:06.446)
Alrighty, let's talk about X -Men 97, essentially the sequel to the old X -Men, the animated series from the early nineties that we all know and love. Spoilers ahead, if you have not seen the entirety of X -Men 97, please pause this, go watch it and then come back. Not only because it's great, but also every episode, and we'll talk about it throughout this review, every episode has these like almost in very comic book form, page turner, shocking sort of either Easter egg or revelation that takes you into the next episode. So let's talk about our initial thoughts, Aaron.

Again, we kind of teased at the beginning of the episode. You were sort of the resident skeptic of X -Men going into the series. You've shotgun the episodes of the last couple of days. What were your thoughts on the entirety of season one of X -Men 97? I was blown away. I was blown away. It was a roller coaster ride from the first episode, which again, like looking back now, I completely understand where I was looking at it from the perspective as an old head to where I am now. And I'm just like, fuck yeah, dude.

Wait, wait, Aaron, you said that Chris said you shotgun the series, meaning that you just like consumed all of them in like one sitting or something? Over two days. Yeah. wow. Props to you. He wasn't with us, Botter. He wasn't watching us. He wasn't watching it on a weekly basis at, you know, 6 a on Wednesday. Yeah, I mean, look, more power to you. I'm kind of jealous you got to experience it for the first time, like just recently. Now, that show was like mandatory viewing in my household. Like,

Wednesday. Well, actually we ended up watching them on Thursday because, you know, Wednesday was just kind of crazy, but mandatory viewing and it was a pain in the ass to not watch it on the day of release because I swear to God, it's like everyone forgot spoiler rules on Twitter or even like Instagram. And, you know, sometimes to me that's indicative of how good a show is if everyone is talking about it and they can't contain their excitement as much as I would love for people to maybe, you know, adhere to the spoiler rules. But,

I had a similar attitude about the show for maybe I'd say the first three episodes where I'm like, okay, this is good, but I'm waiting for something to like really grab me. And I think by episode five, I was all in. I think I became the biggest cheerleader. Not saying that I wasn't off the rip, but I think I became the top of the cheerleader pyramid when episode five happened. That Genosha episode I think made a lot of people believers. Yeah. Yeah. That was.

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You mean the red wedding of X -Men cartoons? No, that was insane. I was in it, because that showed me that, okay, there are some legit sticks here. They're not going to play it too close to the chest or too safe, which sounds kind of weird, right? It's like, only when death is introduced am I going to like it. But I think it showed me that they had a bigger goal in mind and they weren't afraid to get kind of serious with it. This is a show that a kid can enjoy.

I think maybe some parental advisory or whatnot, but this is also geared for, like we know our demographic. I think by then I was like, okay, they know their demographic. It's adults that grew up on this cartoon watching it. And we want some of that level of storytelling. I can tell you the moment that I truly, like there was another moment earlier, probably episode number five, exactly, you guys, but the moment that I loved.

I truly fell in love with this show and my feelings were made public was when I loudly clapped when Beast took a hand from one of the sentinels and said, this is the sound of one hand clapping and literally bitch slapped a sentinel with its own hand. Hank McCoy had some great lines. I mean, everyone had, you know, everyone had a, there was a copious amounts of great quotables in this.

But speaking about Beast in episode 10, the last one, when he lands the censor on top of Bastion and he says, he said, the Greeks loved horses and irony. I thought that was a smart joke. You know, it's like, damn, okay. Like they, you know, wink, wink, you know, you guys aren't stupid. You can, you could read between the lines. That's what they did so well in this show as, as a caveat to what I felt from beginning to end was the first episode was that tipping point where you had to adjust your, your.

nostalgia and your remember -o -meter of the love that you had from it as a kid and adjust it to, I am now an adult watching the continuation of this story that was left unfinished as a child, and I am now an adult who needs to understand that the world has changed along with me. And this show, I know we'll talk about it through the episodes, but this show approached so many current issues to the point where it's just like, fuck, this is hitting close to home. And it didn't.

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as a kid. And I totally agree with you there, Aaron. Like it did feel like they were speaking about the times today. But I think that's the power of the X -Men is that, you know, it's rooted in discussing, you know, things like racism, like power dynamics. And, you know, you got the whole soap opera element like that shit is the X -Men. So like it should always feel relevant because as long as, you know, unfortunately, all of that stuff is still relevant today. And.

The more I think about maybe what my hesitance was in the beginning, I think I was a little confused if this was going to be a anthology kind of show, because it felt like every episode was a little different. I'm looking at the episode list. Episode three was their Inferno episode, and it threw me off that I guess maybe I was trying to predict to ahead instead of sitting back and enjoying it. I'm thinking like, this is going to be about the Inferno saga, but then it ended in the same episode. I was like, okay, so are we just going to go through different X -Men storyline?

every episode because then episode four was like a two -part, it was Mojo and Life, Death, Part One. And I don't think it wasn't until episode five where I was like, I see where they're going. And even though some of this stuff feels like one -offs, it's all connected in a bigger way. And then from there, you know, it was a roller coaster ride. Yeah. I mean, to speak on what you guys are saying there, essentially the X -Men have, and this is not a secret, you know, this is a tale of all this time in terms of like,

The X -Men since 1963 have been essentially a simile or a metaphor for the disenfranchised people in our culture who have been either forgotten or are low on the totem pole. So the fact that, and this will kind of bleed into my kind of initial thoughts as well, is that what I think Bo DiMeo and company sort of did with this revitalization of the X -Men series is it took a perfect blend of what that show was in the nineties, at least.

actually, I'll sort of change that a little bit. I think it took what we all thought the X -Men show was in the 90s and made it what it actually is in today's world. And I said this before, Aaron, I don't know if this is a hot tag, but I think I even said it to you at some point. I think people think the animated series is better than it is. Because if you go back and watch it in today, in 2024, a lot of it is not great. Some of it is good. I think there are nuggets of success in there. But I think for the most part, it is very much a sort of

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toy driven, early nineties, Saban sort of, you know, inspired animated series. But what I think X -Men 97, what it does is it takes sort of that love, what we all have for that, that nostalgic, inherent nostalgic love for that series and brings it into modern day, gives it that sort of Marvel Studios shine up, kind of rounds the edges a little bit. And I'm still, I'm still considering Marvel Studios to have like a quality, right? Like I know they've been on a little bit of a cold streak here recently, but I think,

for the most part, even when they're not very good, it's fine. Right. Like, yeah, I just, in terms of the series, I really, really enjoyed it. I think that season two is already on the way. So we're good there. You know, I'm sorry. X -Men 97 had the acclaim that I wish invincible had, because I feel like invincible is also really good storytelling. It's a lot of action, but for some reason that one did not catch with, I think the general public as much as I wish it would have, but X -Men 97,

kind of proved to me like, okay, every, you know, adults are talking about, you know, this cartoon, they're tuning in every week and there was something kind of special about that. And it, I think it's that built in nostalgia, right? Like there's no nostalgia for invincible because that comic book came out in like 2006, you know, but it is great. And you're not wrong. 100%. I think invincible is just as good. I would say maybe slightly not as good, but still, still really, really good. I think X -Men 97 is sort of the peak in terms of superhero.

Animation currently am I wrong saying that is there am I missing something else? I think they're two different things as my thought process You know, you're dealing with like a coming -of -age story and invincible is, you know Superman spider -man it's like all of these classic superhero tropes and x -men I think goes a little deeper with some of their topics and and things that they that they touch on so I think they're different goals Yeah, exactly. There's two different things but yeah, yeah x -men 97 and is nothing to

Yeah, it sets the bar very high for animated, you know, comic book stuff out there. Yeah. All right, Aaron, let's go into a synopsis here. Let's get into our for review. So the series begins one year after the loss of Professor Charles Xavier, question mark during the original series finale Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm, Wolverine, Rogue, Beast, Gambit and Jubilee return as members of the X -Men, now led by their former adversary Magneto.

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And as we said earlier, Bo Dimeo, the original showrunner is back or he was back because Dimeo and his team had finished writing for season two and had began discussing ideas for a potential third season when he was fired by Marvel Studios just a few days ahead of the series premiere. He was not involved in any further promotion and missed its red carpet premiere. Reportedly, and this is conjecture, Dimeo was difficult to work with behind the scenes.

and his open usage of OnlyFans was not received well by the team and Disney executives. Now, I don't know if that means that Bode Mio has an OnlyFans or that he is just an avid user, but regardless, why the hell does your team know that you have that? I'll say this much, if he had an OnlyFans, well look, Marvel, it sounds like you need to pay the man more. You gotta pay him more, Jesus Christ. He needs to stop selling feet pics so he can make more gambit rogue stories. Exactly, pay your damn creatives. Yeah, seriously.

I will say this departure of Dimaio is kind of a bummer. Like I say it on Twitter the other day that like whatever he did, and I didn't know this until today when I was creating the transcript, whatever he did, let's get him back in the house. As long as he's not being a turd, as long as he's not abusing anybody. Like exactly. If it's not, you know, if he's not causing a disruptive or, you know, a bad work environment, I just don't see what his personal,

Yeah, you know what he does on his personal time. How that would now granted we are talking about the billion dollar company entity that is the Disney, the Disney, Disney industrial complex. So I get that they've got a certain, you know, quality. They follow the voice of public opinion way too much. Like this is the same company that almost fired James Gunn, who is now the head of DC Studios. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is a good point. I was about to ask, like, what public opinion, like who knew with all due respect to DeMaior?

Who is out crying this? I didn't know this until you kind of brought it up. I had heard some of the rumors, but. So I think what we need to look at is we need to focus on the fact that it says the open usage of OnlyFans. Because that is something that really needs to be probably taken into account is the fact that Disney has a reputation to uphold regardless of what we feel about the copability of it. Again, I'm...

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I will always be an understanding person, but when it comes to the workplace and I don't care where you work, just go to work, do your job and save all your yucks that we don't, you know, all your yums that we don't yuck, save that for the proper environment. Especially if you work in anything that is underneath the umbrella of the D -I -S -N -E -Y, you know?

And hopefully I wasn't coming across like, you know, I'm pro like, yo, watch some poor network around your coworkers. Absolutely not. If that was it, but I guess here's the thing. I don't think we'll ever know because even to Mayo, it must have been some wicked non -compete or non -disclosure that he had to sign because it has been very interesting that he has taken the high road in terms of not.

airing out the dirty laundry. Now, whether that be because he was in the wrong or he wasn't in the wrong, I don't think we'll know. But he's taken the high road in terms of as every week, he's sharing, like, hey, make sure you guys read this. It's influenced by this. And he's answering tweets and DMs sent to him. And he's praising the show. And I think that is a classy move.

Cause he, cause he could have easily, you know, been like, yo, fuck this show. And let me tell you guys all about the shit that goes on with, you know, behind the scenes. I do respect that he's taken like that classy or high road and kind of kept some of this close to his chest. I think that could possibly mean that he could be back perhaps. Like maybe I'm reading too much into it, but like maybe he's keeping, you know, the Disney relationship somewhat kosher that way of down the road. If, if, you know, once again, the voice of public opinion dies down, if that's what it is or.

you know, time heals all. So if you know, at the beginning of 2025, if like things go really well and season two looks to be a big hit, they go, OK, why don't you just sneak back on in here really quick? The same way they would James Gunn did. You know what? That is a that is a great point. Yeah, he knew he had a banger. He was like, look, when they watch this show, they'll be begging me. Watch me work. I'm about to double my you know, I won't need my only fans after you know, after season one drops. I'll be back when I want double. Yeah, exactly. Get your money to mail.

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Let's talk about what I think for most people might be one of the most important aspects of X -Men 97. Okay. So one of five, you got to, you got to stretch that out and you cut that a little too short. You missed the best part. So there's no, there is no competing with the Gullixens.

That's right. But yeah, but buddy, you gotta do you know, no one was comparing you to Gullickson's. That's my shout out to Brad and Lisa. Yeah. What a feige stipulations for reviving X -Men, the animated series was ensuring Marvel Studios was able to use a series theme song, which was composed by Ron Wasserman or Wasserman if you're, you know, white for the layman. Wasserman composed the theme while under contract with producer Hame Saban, giving legal ownership of the song to Saban.

Damn it, Saban. If you don't remember that Saban seal, they fucking own everything. Why does Saban own everything? Everything on the cheap and now it's all worth something and they just are cashing out now. Saban equals your childhood. OK, remember that. Following legal battles over the use of the theme, Marvel Studios paid a large sum to secure the rights in 2022. Shocker. OK, we know what we got. We know what it's worth. I want to know how much they paid. I know what it's worth. Millions, millions, millions. If you guys had to guess really quick before going on, just.

Ballpark, what do you think they spent on just the rights for the theme song? I don't even know what would be like a comparable 69 million So I'm sure the lump sum is definitely in the millions But I think the the caveat you got to pay attention to is that? Part of the deal was Saban's like yeah, you can use it, but you've got to also credit us Going forward so I don't know if it works like, you know music and record labels, but you know

The fact that they would be credited would mean they would get some sort of maybe residuals as well. So that sounds like an infinite piggy bank. I think it's like Shark Tank. Like we want residuals. You know, like I want equity. I want to own 49 % of your company. Yeah. Aaron, I fucking love that you brought up Shark Tank as a Shark Tank avid watcher. That was great. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin Flake is like, if you don't get the theme song, there's no theme song. And for that reason, I'm out. I'm out. Yeah, exactly. I want a 25 cents every time that that bitch is streamed.

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But you know what, I think that was, this is a case of like, it's Disney. They should flex that, where they know that that theme song, it's not, I don't even wanna call it like Miniscule, that is a make or break. Like, let's be real, that is one of the, if there's one thing about them, Saban shows from our childhood, every single one of them had a banger of an intro. I mean, like every show, Batman the animated series, you know, Transformers, like Power Rangers, Batman Beyond, Spider -Man the animated series, all of it. I think having that familiar,

Intro and then obviously it's not like the exact intro from you know, the 90s show But you know, it's it's familiar enough. I think goes into the overall branding and overall like feel for the show and hopefully I didn't mean to step on it on your toes But this makes me think of something that the the supervising director of the animation design has said He said when they were coming up the design for the show Quote the show it needs to be the show we remember but it has to be in 4k. I

And that was, I feel like that's a good summation of what I, the show overall words. It's familiar, but there's enough newness to it and a polish to it that makes it feel acceptable in today's time. And the intro and extensive the intro song. I think that's like actually what I was trying to say earlier when we were talking about our initial thoughts. Like that's exactly the way I view this series is that it's everything that I remember that I love, but better and more and higher quality. Like, you know, Aaron continue on.

Yeah, yeah. So Wasserman was set to meet with Marvel about his involvement in the revival by early 2022. But John Andrew Grush and Taylor Newton Stewart, known professionally as the Newton brothers, were announced to be the composers for the X -Men 97 that July. And it is a good update. Like I will say, like the theme song is pretty much exactly the same with just like it's just got that you get those rounded corners. I love the way it kind of bleeds in to each sort of when they do like.

last week on X -Men, you know, they do the whole highlight reel of what happened in the previous episode and it just kind of goes, dad, dad, dad. And it just like, and it hits you right in the face. The theme song. Unless you're one of those plebes who's just like skip. If you skip that song, I think turn off this episode. Yeah. I think Disney should auto disable, you know, like they'll have like skip the intro. I think that should always be auto disabled on shows. Like it should be like the first time you watch.

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Or you like you watch the the FMV sequences in a video game where like you can't skip it the first time it's played Yeah, you can press it but it's just as error when you press it it's like sorry now you have to watch this how how cool was fucking stupid How cool is the intro for this last episode? You know where it was like a little more somber and you know slow and you know it what I'm saying like the music they understand that the music plays such a big

part into like getting you ready for it and just putting you in that headspace. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the comic influences. Now this is a big deal because this series, as we said, you know, throughout this entire review thus far, it is very entrenched in the, the lore of X -Men, which is daunting. I'll tell you, I'll admit it live here on the show, everybody, Aaron, I don't know if you know this about me, Botter, I know you don't. X -Men has always been sort of a blind corner to me in the comic book world. Like I like a lot of the big stuff. I love.

God love man kills. I like a lot of the new Krakoa stuff. I like certain storylines. But in terms of like reading, you know, especially the seventies, eighties, and especially, especially the nineties stuff, it is a very daunting task. Like, Aaron, you know me, I'm all about easy accessibility into the medium. If you want the most inaccessible corner of the comic book medium, read X -Men from 1976 until 1999, because it is insanity. It is wild. And what I think this show has done really well thus far,

It has taken these storylines that we're about to talk about here in just a moment and condenses them and weaves them together in a very digestible way that I really, really enjoy. And I think they picked a lot of really good storylines too. It's almost as hard as trying to figure out every character that Morph turns into during the entire series. Which you brought up, so I just want to say this, that using Morph as a vehicle for cool cameos.

Because they could have easily just, you know, had him transform into other X -Men. But the fact that he transforms, you know, like Reed Richards and, you know, other characters that... The Hulk. Yeah, the Hulk. You know, I thought that was a cool use of Morph's power. You know, thinking about the larger possibilities of like this animated Marvel universe. Yeah. And we see a lot of those guys and they also respected his pronouns. Yeah. Their pronouns. For sure, yeah.